Police abuse

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

.........

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1266358757749112833?s=20

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

The cop has been arrested.

https://twitter.com/mlahammer/status/1266417094830231554?s=20

tempo_n_groove · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

The cop has been arrested.

https://twitter.com/mlahammer/status/1266417094830231554?s=20

Was just about to post this.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

all four of those fuckers should be

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?

Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?

Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.

I obviously have a limited understanding of why they'd be culpable enough to lose their jobs but not enough to be charged.

Parksy · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.

My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.

It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.

If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.

I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.

If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.

BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?

Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.

I obviously have a limited understanding of why they'd be culpable enough to lose their jobs but not enough to be charged.

Yeah I understand that. But charged with what? And I'm not trying to say they shouldn't be, or that I don't want them to be held accountable. But I'm just trying to figure out what criminal statute you get them on. There's a lot of latitude afforded to police in situations like this, which can construe the incident as them trying to do their jobs, but failing (thus the firings), rather than abject negligence....which it was.

I'm not saying it won't happen, I said it could be tough. They're not as cut-and-dry as Chauvin.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.

My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.

It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.

If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.

I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.

If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.

BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.

You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

Third-degree murder and manslaughter are the charges. The DA didn’t specify voluntary or involuntary.

Parksy · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.

My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.

It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.

If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.

I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.

If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.

BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.

You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.

Hello There

I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.

My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.

It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.

If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.

I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.

If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.

BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.

You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.

Hello There I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.

Ya never know, they still might. The DA just said Chauvin was the main priority, but that future charges may come.

Parksy · May 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Parksy said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Here's why I think all four should be arrested and charged... feel free to disagree.

My first unpopular opinion is that cops should be held MORE ACCOUNTABLE than the public.

It's difficult with cops because they're in a sticky situation. They wouldn't be there if the call to assist didn't come. But to me it's not an excuse if they are to be held to same standards as the public they 'protect.' Dude had the cops called on him for forgery and being drunk... and ended up getting killed. Very not cool.

If I'm a prosecutor, I would have to ask the other cops why they did not intervene against Chauvin when he had his knee against his neck and you could clearly hear him saying "I can't breathe." Whatever their excuse is ... and if you're about to disagree with me... whatever your excuse is is in my opinion completely wrong. There are no two ways to look at this. If the police are there to protect, they completely failed simply because the person who was committing the crime before their eyes was their colleague, friend, fellow cop. And that is totally wrong. The problem is... I can't think of a single cop that would do what I just suggested which is ironically the right thing to do and what would have prevented a manslaughter.

I've personally been in this exact same situation. Trying to handle a crook on the ground who is passively resisting. Another fellow had his knee on his neck and all I had to do was look at the fellow and say.. "Hey, neck." And off the knee went. That came from training and common sense. It's a balance. Protect yourself, fellow officers, and the public but also be in care and control of the suspect. If you can't do that... you shouldn't be wearing a badge and carrying a firearm.

If they don't get the book thrown at them... all of them... it's not going to send a good message. Not just to the black community, but the entire community.

BTW .. this wasn't a murder. It's bothering me how much I'm seeing on the internet saying Chauvin "murdered" Floyd. No he didn't. But he is culpable for his death (manslaughter) and the three other cops helped and should have known better. Everything you need is on camera.

You seem to think I'm advocating for those other officers not to be charged. I'm not. I'm saying it's not that easy. It took them three days to arrest the guy that actually committed the act, and when Hugh was commenting two minutes later that the others needed to be arrested, I was just saying that it's not that easy for a DA to come up with the right charges to arrest a group of cops.

Hello There I wasn't thinking you were advocating for that. Just wanted to throw my opinion in the ring as to why they should be. And I agree with you.. it's really not easy and odds are, they won't be arrested.

Ya never know, they still might. The DA just said Chauvin was the main priority, but that future charges may come.

Parksy · May 2020

@Ledbetterman10 I'd be personally surprised, but as stated I think it should happen. To a certain degree I would feel bad for the other officers because It's a system and environment of policing that causes them to not act against a fellow officer. That's a personal feeling. But they should absolutely be charged if only to send a clear message that this will not be tolerated.

Ledbetterman10 · May 2020

Yeah I agree with that. This whole incident could be a good “send a clear message” moment. Could be...but we’ll see.

mace1229 · May 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

all four of those fuckers should be

That could be tough. Chauvin was with the department for over 20 years, and judging by his list of infractions with no discipline, he seems well protected. It's possible he was the senior-ranking officer of the four. And per the almighty chain-of-command codes, the others might be able to argue they couldn't overstep him. In a morality court, they're guilty for not speaking up, and they deserved to lose their jobs. But in a legal court, I think they'd have a good defense against being held criminally responsible. Chauvin doesn't. At all.

Wouldn't there be something in their code of ethics where they are obligated to override their ranking officer if they are putting/neglecting someone in imminent danger?

Probably, and that's why they were fired. But that's not the same as being charged with a crime.That'd be a good argument in a civil suit against them though.

I obviously have a limited understanding of why they'd be culpable enough to lose their jobs but not enough to be charged.

The statute for charges, which takes away one’s basic freedoms, is much higher than just firing someone.
Unfortunatey I’ve worked with several teachers who have lost their jobs over allegations from a student. Only 1 was ever charged.

mace1229 · May 2020

Some here seem to sympathize with the rioters. I can’t. It’s disgusting. In my opinion they aren’t protesting, but taking advantage of someone else’s death to riot, rob and loot.

The cop should be charged. But they are just as bad when they set fires, rob banks, change “kill white people” etc. I will never take a group of people seriously who pretend to be against the system when they promote violence based on color themselves or burn down random stores of innocent people. Anyone found rioting should be arrested and held accountable for all injuries, deaths and damages.

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