The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • Hi!
    Hi! Posts: 3,095
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    😳

    Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I’m continually amazed that people are amazed. There is nothing but some sports and this political shit to do in Iowa in the winter
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,663
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    No, they're paid a wage for their work. One of my first jobs was with a large multinational company. The CEO made piles of money and I had a decent salary and benefits. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,663
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Those Boston Dynamics robots are going to seize the means of production whether we like it or not 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
    Oh right, you're a real communist.  Okay, so the wealth goes to the statist government and then is redistributed to the robots who did all the work.  Got it.  I love a great 18th century agrarian economic philosophy at work in the modern age.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    cincybearcat said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I’m continually amazed that people are amazed. There is nothing but some sports and this political shit to do in Iowa in the winter
    The people and energy at the Trump rallies are pretty impressive too. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory.  If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance?  Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US.  We don't need theories when we have results. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I’m continually amazed that people are amazed. There is nothing but some sports and this political shit to do in Iowa in the winter
    The people and energy at the Trump rallies are pretty impressive too. 
    ...and?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    I’m continually amazed that people are amazed. There is nothing but some sports and this political shit to do in Iowa in the winter
    The people and energy at the Trump rallies are pretty impressive too. 
    ...and?
    and...handsome?
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
    Oh right, you're a real communist.  Okay, so the wealth goes to the statist government and then is redistributed to the robots who did all the work.  Got it.  I love a great 18th century agrarian economic philosophy at work in the modern age.  
    You really struggle with the fact that there are different variants of communism. Here's a fun quiz for you that might help: https://www.gotoquiz.com/which_type_of_socialist_are_you?fbclid=IwAR2YbD2HSVj736vKPbuU_LiF8vyXNNdJ84Tq06j3qbHcVC7pkm1wwSVyeJQ

  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory.  If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance?  Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US.  We don't need theories when we have results. 
    I put the ultimate value on the work that went into starting the factory. Capital =/= work. 
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    No, they're paid a wage for their work. One of my first jobs was with a large multinational company. The CEO made piles of money and I had a decent salary and benefits. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
    You think Amazon warehouse workers have a decent salary and benefits? Not sure they agree with you. https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/amazon-strike-prime-day-shakopee-fulfillment-center
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
    Oh right, you're a real communist.  Okay, so the wealth goes to the statist government and then is redistributed to the robots who did all the work.  Got it.  I love a great 18th century agrarian economic philosophy at work in the modern age.  
    You really struggle with the fact that there are different variants of communism. Here's a fun quiz for you that might help: https://www.gotoquiz.com/which_type_of_socialist_are_you?fbclid=IwAR2YbD2HSVj736vKPbuU_LiF8vyXNNdJ84Tq06j3qbHcVC7pkm1wwSVyeJQ

    I don't struggle at all.  You don't recall me writing about Leninism, Stalinism, or talking about how pieces of communism, as articulated by Marx are already in place in our society?  You must not be an attentive reader.  Go back a few pages.  I've also pointed out multiple times that we aren't capitalist, that we are mixed.  And some of that mix are Marxist ideas. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory.  If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance?  Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US.  We don't need theories when we have results. 
    I put the ultimate value on the work that went into starting the factory. Capital =/= work. 
    "starting the factory"?  What does that mean?  The highest value is to the person laying the first brick?  Is that the guy in the crane?  Or is that the brick delivery guy, who had the unique skill set of being CDC licensed and able to put the truck in "D".   Your theory seems quite random.  
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,663
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    No, they're paid a wage for their work. One of my first jobs was with a large multinational company. The CEO made piles of money and I had a decent salary and benefits. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
    You think Amazon warehouse workers have a decent salary and benefits? Not sure they agree with you. https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/amazon-strike-prime-day-shakopee-fulfillment-center
    I skimmed the article and didn't see anything about their average salary and benefits. Did I miss it? It's their right to negotiate or even strike for a better deal, but I have no idea whether they're being reasonable or unreasonable without that information. 
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
    Oh right, you're a real communist.  Okay, so the wealth goes to the statist government and then is redistributed to the robots who did all the work.  Got it.  I love a great 18th century agrarian economic philosophy at work in the modern age.  
    You really struggle with the fact that there are different variants of communism. Here's a fun quiz for you that might help: https://www.gotoquiz.com/which_type_of_socialist_are_you?fbclid=IwAR2YbD2HSVj736vKPbuU_LiF8vyXNNdJ84Tq06j3qbHcVC7pkm1wwSVyeJQ

    I don't struggle at all.  You don't recall me writing about Leninism, Stalinism, or talking about how pieces of communism, as articulated by Marx are already in place in our society?  You must not be an attentive reader.  Go back a few pages.  I've also pointed out multiple times that we aren't capitalist, that we are mixed.  And some of that mix are Marxist ideas. 
    Not entirely sure what you're trying to say with this response, but you said "the wealth goes to the statist government." I'm not a statist communist. 
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    pjl44 said:
    ecdanc said:
    How does one make a billion dollars honestly?
    I can get just about anything delivered to my door, sometimes within a couple hours. And I can stream a couple movies while I wait. Bezos can buy an island for all I care.
    And his warehouse workers can go fuck themselves, eh? 
    You put zero value in the idea and the work that went into starting the factory.  If one received zero for such things, what's the point of having an idea, and how do humans advance?  Again, you can look at Soviet era technological advancements compared to the US.  We don't need theories when we have results. 
    I put the ultimate value on the work that went into starting the factory. Capital =/= work. 
    "starting the factory"?  What does that mean?  The highest value is to the person laying the first brick?  Is that the guy in the crane?  Or is that the brick delivery guy, who had the unique skill set of being CDC licensed and able to put the truck in "D".   Your theory seems quite random.  
    You're the one who said "starting the factory." Capital =/= work is not random. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ecdanc said:
    All wealth belongs properly to labor. The accumulation of capital relies fundamentally upon exploitation (Buffett is actually a great example: his “honest” fortune derives almost entirely from “investment”).
    What's the proper wage rate for a robot?
    Who said anything about wages?
    Oh right, you're a real communist.  Okay, so the wealth goes to the statist government and then is redistributed to the robots who did all the work.  Got it.  I love a great 18th century agrarian economic philosophy at work in the modern age.  
    You really struggle with the fact that there are different variants of communism. Here's a fun quiz for you that might help: https://www.gotoquiz.com/which_type_of_socialist_are_you?fbclid=IwAR2YbD2HSVj736vKPbuU_LiF8vyXNNdJ84Tq06j3qbHcVC7pkm1wwSVyeJQ

    I don't struggle at all.  You don't recall me writing about Leninism, Stalinism, or talking about how pieces of communism, as articulated by Marx are already in place in our society?  You must not be an attentive reader.  Go back a few pages.  I've also pointed out multiple times that we aren't capitalist, that we are mixed.  And some of that mix are Marxist ideas. 
    Not entirely sure what you're trying to say with this response, but you said "the wealth goes to the statist government." I'm not a statist communist. 
    Fair enough, but there hasn't been an example of communism (I'm not talking about communes, I'm talking about nations) where the country has not become statist.  It is fundamentally Marxism in practice.  
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