The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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yes, we (US and Canada) have many social programs. I just believe UBI to be a very socialist program.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
UBI is pretty socialist, don't you think, Brian?brianlux said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
As people has said from the beginning ”they will label us socialists whoever we pick”.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
But keep running away from the bullies I guess.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
Andrew Yang has also been labeled a "socialist" by some which is quite the joke and, sadly, proves that many Americans don't read very well or think very clearly or critically. Thus Yang's slogan: MATH, Make America Think Harder. Many people need to think harder. I try, but I know I can do better.
social security is pretty socialist, don’t you think, Hugh?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Is UBI meant for everyone, across the board, regardless of income? or is there a salary cap?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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mrussel1 said:
IF it doesn't look that much different, why do we need a new social safety net? That's my whole point.ecdanc said:
Social Security was developed as one part of a multi-faceted move toward social insurance, which extended beyond the elderly (and those with disabilities) to include unemployment (unemployment insurance was part of the original Social Security Act--federal grants to states), etc.. So, treating Social Security as separate from some other remaining New Deal changes does inflect our view of things. Not really disagreeing with anything you said; just pointing out that SS was one part of move toward social welfare that, taken collectively, doesn't look THAT much different than UBI. With that said, I completely agree with your penultimate sentence: I don't think my family should bet UBI either.mrussel1 said:
It is.. but social security was established as a social safety net, specifically for the elderly. Remember in this country, you had millions of elderly that became indigent because we had no system, no pension, no 401(k) to support people when they age out of the workplace. It is also expanded to help those who physically cannot work for a variety of reasons. The question is, where does UBI fit into that equation? My understanding is it's not means tested, so what purpose does it serve to give everyone a grand a month, regardless of their need. Is it purely a way to redistribute income? If so, why not means test it? Or why not increase social security benefits for those that need it. I just don't understand the value it adds. Now I have not studied his proposal, so open to hearing about it. But I don't see a scenario where my wife and I should get 2k more a month. Won't that just drive inflation?Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
UBI is pretty socialist, don't you think, Brian?brianlux said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
As people has said from the beginning ”they will label us socialists whoever we pick”.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
But keep running away from the bullies I guess.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
Andrew Yang has also been labeled a "socialist" by some which is quite the joke and, sadly, proves that many Americans don't read very well or think very clearly or critically. Thus Yang's slogan: MATH, Make America Think Harder. Many people need to think harder. I try, but I know I can do better.
social security is pretty socialist, don’t you think, Hugh?
Robots?0 -
Yes, I'm fairly certain it's every citizen, no means test.HughFreakingDillon said:Is UBI meant for everyone, across the board, regardless of income? or is there a salary cap?0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:Is UBI meant for everyone, across the board, regardless of income? or is there a salary cap?
Yes, I heard Yang mention somewhere that UBI would be for every adult in the country, even Jeff Bezos (which I thought was an extremely generous statement!)
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
because of unchecked capitalism.......mrussel1 said:
It is.. but social security was established as a social safety net, specifically for the elderly. Remember in this country, you had millions of elderly that became indigent because we had no system, no pension, no 401(k) to support people when they age out of the workplace. It is also expanded to help those who physically cannot work for a variety of reasons. The question is, where does UBI fit into that equation? My understanding is it's not means tested, so what purpose does it serve to give everyone a grand a month, regardless of their need. Is it purely a way to redistribute income? If so, why not means test it? Or why not increase social security benefits for those that need it. I just don't understand the value it adds. Now I have not studied his proposal, so open to hearing about it. But I don't see a scenario where my wife and I should get 2k more a month. Won't that just drive inflation?Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
UBI is pretty socialist, don't you think, Brian?brianlux said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
As people has said from the beginning ”they will label us socialists whoever we pick”.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
But keep running away from the bullies I guess.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
Andrew Yang has also been labeled a "socialist" by some which is quite the joke and, sadly, proves that many Americans don't read very well or think very clearly or critically. Thus Yang's slogan: MATH, Make America Think Harder. Many people need to think harder. I try, but I know I can do better.
social security is pretty socialist, don’t you think, Hugh?
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
mrussel1 said:
Yes, I'm fairly certain it's every citizen, no means test.HughFreakingDillon said:Is UBI meant for everyone, across the board, regardless of income? or is there a salary cap?
"citizen", yes good point, I think it means every citizen.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I know that's part of his point, but I'm not sure that's the solution. I'm more inclined to support a government that creates some limitations on robot work. There is truly dignity in work and it is healthy. However, my own counterargument to that is 1. We should not stand in the way of innovation and efficiency and 2. If we did, then the US will become less competitive on the world stage.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
IF it doesn't look that much different, why do we need a new social safety net? That's my whole point.ecdanc said:
Social Security was developed as one part of a multi-faceted move toward social insurance, which extended beyond the elderly (and those with disabilities) to include unemployment (unemployment insurance was part of the original Social Security Act--federal grants to states), etc.. So, treating Social Security as separate from some other remaining New Deal changes does inflect our view of things. Not really disagreeing with anything you said; just pointing out that SS was one part of move toward social welfare that, taken collectively, doesn't look THAT much different than UBI. With that said, I completely agree with your penultimate sentence: I don't think my family should bet UBI either.mrussel1 said:
It is.. but social security was established as a social safety net, specifically for the elderly. Remember in this country, you had millions of elderly that became indigent because we had no system, no pension, no 401(k) to support people when they age out of the workplace. It is also expanded to help those who physically cannot work for a variety of reasons. The question is, where does UBI fit into that equation? My understanding is it's not means tested, so what purpose does it serve to give everyone a grand a month, regardless of their need. Is it purely a way to redistribute income? If so, why not means test it? Or why not increase social security benefits for those that need it. I just don't understand the value it adds. Now I have not studied his proposal, so open to hearing about it. But I don't see a scenario where my wife and I should get 2k more a month. Won't that just drive inflation?Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
UBI is pretty socialist, don't you think, Brian?brianlux said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
As people has said from the beginning ”they will label us socialists whoever we pick”.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
But keep running away from the bullies I guess.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
Andrew Yang has also been labeled a "socialist" by some which is quite the joke and, sadly, proves that many Americans don't read very well or think very clearly or critically. Thus Yang's slogan: MATH, Make America Think Harder. Many people need to think harder. I try, but I know I can do better.
social security is pretty socialist, don’t you think, Hugh?
Robots?
It's a tough argument, and I may come around to UBI, but I am probably years away personally, because I think we're a ways away on robots materially taking away jobs. Look at the unemployment numbers.0 -
better yet look at the available jobs vs unemployment, which I believe the available jobs outnumber available people....mrussel1 said:
I know that's part of his point, but I'm not sure that's the solution. I'm more inclined to support a government that creates some limitations on robot work. There is truly dignity in work and it is healthy. However, my own counterargument to that is 1. We should not stand in the way of innovation and efficiency and 2. If we did, then the US will become less competitive on the world stage.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
IF it doesn't look that much different, why do we need a new social safety net? That's my whole point.ecdanc said:
Social Security was developed as one part of a multi-faceted move toward social insurance, which extended beyond the elderly (and those with disabilities) to include unemployment (unemployment insurance was part of the original Social Security Act--federal grants to states), etc.. So, treating Social Security as separate from some other remaining New Deal changes does inflect our view of things. Not really disagreeing with anything you said; just pointing out that SS was one part of move toward social welfare that, taken collectively, doesn't look THAT much different than UBI. With that said, I completely agree with your penultimate sentence: I don't think my family should bet UBI either.mrussel1 said:
It is.. but social security was established as a social safety net, specifically for the elderly. Remember in this country, you had millions of elderly that became indigent because we had no system, no pension, no 401(k) to support people when they age out of the workplace. It is also expanded to help those who physically cannot work for a variety of reasons. The question is, where does UBI fit into that equation? My understanding is it's not means tested, so what purpose does it serve to give everyone a grand a month, regardless of their need. Is it purely a way to redistribute income? If so, why not means test it? Or why not increase social security benefits for those that need it. I just don't understand the value it adds. Now I have not studied his proposal, so open to hearing about it. But I don't see a scenario where my wife and I should get 2k more a month. Won't that just drive inflation?Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
UBI is pretty socialist, don't you think, Brian?brianlux said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
As people has said from the beginning ”they will label us socialists whoever we pick”.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
But keep running away from the bullies I guess.The Juggler said:
Again, 1000% yep. It's why Trump is already saying the system is rigged against Bernie.mrussel1 said:
This is what I argued four years ago. Teh Republicans and Trump have been silent because they don't want to damage him too soon.CM189191 said:
Republicans are better at politics and branding than democrats are. If Bernie is the nominee, you democrats better get used to all being labeled as a bunch of socialists for the rest of eternity.
Andrew Yang has also been labeled a "socialist" by some which is quite the joke and, sadly, proves that many Americans don't read very well or think very clearly or critically. Thus Yang's slogan: MATH, Make America Think Harder. Many people need to think harder. I try, but I know I can do better.
social security is pretty socialist, don’t you think, Hugh?
Robots?
It's a tough argument, and I may come around to UBI, but I am probably years away personally, because I think we're a ways away on robots materially taking away jobs. Look at the unemployment numbers.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
MAN
OF
THE
PEOPLE
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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You need to check your racist language.Spiritual_Chaos said:0 -
Oh, you are referring to Biden? Yeah for sure he should.mrussel1 said:
You need to check your racist language.Spiritual_Chaos said:
https://youtu.be/kFeZnP56V9U
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
No I'm referring to you, in 2019, using language that we now know has racial undertones. Be better than that man. I believe in you.0
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"There can not exist a 'we and them' - there is only 'us'"The Juggler said:
- Olof Palme
Democratic socialist
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
It is tough to get through to millennials. They have different thinking than us gen x’s.mrussel1 said:No I'm referring to you, in 2019, using language that we now know has racial undertones. Be better than that man. I believe in you.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
You mean in the sense that millenials aren't content with posting a constant stream of dubious alt-right "oh, these are so funny if you are a red cap-wearer" pictures on a rock bands message board?mcgruff10 said:
It is tough to get through to millennials. They have different thinking than us gen x’s.mrussel1 said:No I'm referring to you, in 2019, using language that we now know has racial undertones. Be better than that man. I believe in you."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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