The Democratic Presidential Debates

ecdanc · January 2020

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

ecdanc · January 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, you bigot.

You're officially over the line

I'm sure I'm over the line according to the moderators, but what Ledbetterman said is far more offensive than me calling him a bigot.

If a transwoman and a woman who was born a woman were walking down the street, I’d say that’s two women walking down the street. I have no issue at all with social norm of a transwoman being a woman. At all. Caitlyn Jenner is a woman.

But in a FIGHT, it’s different The physical make up of a man and a woman is different. And a man that transitions to being a woman still has that physical make up in bone density, etc.

If you ever find yourself saying "I believe a trans woman is a woman except in this case/instance/moment..." then you don't accept her as a woman.

Well then that does it. I guess I’m transphobic. God dammit.

See... you're scared of people and didn't even know it. Learn something new everyday

It's typical in these type of arguments. I can't be for mostly for LGBTQ rights, but be against the specific instance of transwomen competing against women in sports. That'd be straying from the herd.

Many people draw similar distinctions (I'm pro-X except in this case); many people also grossly overestimate how pro-X they are. There's a lot of overlap in that Venn Diagram.

Ledbetterman10 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

ecdanc · January 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Lerxst1992 · January 2020

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread.

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions.

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement!

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular.

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?"

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried.

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use.

Give it a fucking rest.

In a few hours 135 unread? Like wth happened here. Did someone stumble into this topic with an extra MSG ticket?

ecdanc · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread.

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions.

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement!

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular.

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?"

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried.

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use.

Give it a fucking rest.

In a few hours 135 unread? Like wth happened here. Did someone stumble into this topic with an extra MSG ticket?

I'm putting it on Stubhub just for you!

Ledbetterman10 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Well I disagree but I've already explained why so I won't go on and on. You just keep fighting the good fight against us bigots.

mickeyrat · January 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Everything in life can’t be completely ”fair” and a society that is made for and to include a huge amount of individuals can’t and doesn’t have to in every detail serve or fit specifically you.

I think. Cis Woman should be able to compete in a sports environment against those who havent spent a lifetime being fueled by biological male levels of testosterone as that hormone is used differently by the respective biological human.....

Spiritual_Chaos · January 2020

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Do you try to get what @Ledbetterman10 is arguing? Outside of the language used.

ecdanc · January 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Do you try to get what @Ledbetterman10 is arguing? Outside of the language used.

Yes, I absolutely get what he is trying to argue. I think his premises are so flawed that I'm ignoring his conclusion. Put differently, he's building what I consider to be an offensive position by relying on other things that I consider to be offensive.

ecdanc · January 2020

mickeyrat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Everything in life can’t be completely ”fair” and a society that is made for and to include a huge amount of individuals can’t and doesn’t have to in every detail serve or fit specifically you.

I think. Cis Woman should be able to compete in a sports environment against those who havent spent a lifetime being fueled by biological male levels of testosterone as that hormone is used differently by the respective biological human.....

I contend that such a position is irreconcilable with a full recognition of transgender equality.

EDIT: I'd add that the position you're espousing is aligned closely with TERFs, with whom I strongly disagree.

Lerxst1992 · January 2020

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread.

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions.

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement!

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular.

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?"

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried.

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use.

Give it a fucking rest.

In a few hours 135 unread? Like wth happened here. Did someone stumble into this topic with an extra MSG ticket?

I'm putting it on Stubhub just for you!

You da best!

Ledbetterman10 · January 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Do you try to get what @Ledbetterman10 is arguing? Outside of the language used.

You were kind of giving me the same pushback too, though....

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Maybe your number one concern in that sport then should be that everyone should wear helmets?

because cis men can get very hurt by cis men too.

But I take it you're feeling now that my premise is fine, but you don't like wording?

Spiritual_Chaos · January 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Do you try to get what @Ledbetterman10 is arguing? Outside of the language used.

You were kind of giving me the same pushback too, though....

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Maybe your number one concern in that sport then should be that everyone should wear helmets?

because cis men can get very hurt by cis men too.

But I take it you're feeling now that my premise is fine, but you don't like wording?

On the pushback -- I think you could have used "transwoman" instead of "man" in the context. Out of some kind of respect. And this came after a discussion you were just involved with about the topic. If I am not mistaken. But I also understand what you are arguing. And I also understand that you can't be 100% correct all the time and always be living up to the standard of "absolutely perfect and absolutely up to date".

The second thing. I just find the argument of "safety risks" being odd -- when it is about competition. And then shouldn't the argument start and stop with - the playing field is too different for it to be fair.

ecdanc · January 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Well I disagree but I've already explained why so I won't go on and on. You just keep fighting the good fight against us bigots.

I'm happy to let this drop, but I do encourage you to keep thinking about these issues. You operate with a very binary sense of what (physically) is a man and a woman. As we continue to progress, you may find that stance alienates more and more people. Have a good day.

Ledbetterman10 · January 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted.

this is funny watching the back peddling.

Seriously, for just one moment, take my abrasive personality out of the equation: do you really want to align yourself with what Ledbetterman said? You claim to support trans rights, but you take up his side here?

i don't take 'sides'. i align myself with common sense. the terms he used were ignorant at worst, not even close to bigoted. there is a major difference there. you simply can't expect everyone to accept and change their verbiage overnight. it just doesn't work that way, and screaming at someone who doesn't know does more harm to any given cause than good.

He directly referred to a trans woman as a man. That is not verbiage; that is a statement about what a trans woman IS. I hope you really are an ally in the real world, but you aren't showing it here.

one of my more favourite quotes of the last few years: "just because you're outraged, doesn't make you right".

I'm not sure what your point is: are you claiming he didn't refer to a trans woman as a man? Or that him doing so is ok?

You're arguing semantics. I've made it quite clear I'm arguing that from a physical standpoint, a transwoman has the physical makeup of a man. And while that is not relevant in another aspect of her life, it is if she's competing in spors against women.

But I know your type. So keeping arguinig with Hugh that I'm a bigot, or flag my post, or tag the moderator or whatever. Cancel away.

You can call it "semantics" if you want; I'm simply reading what you said. Your efforts to justify that statement merely sink further into a morass of offensive statements. If a trans woman is a woman, then her body is a woman's body. She, by definition, has the "physical makeup" of a woman. Short women have women's bodies; tall women have women's bodies; trans women have women's bodies.

Do you try to get what @Ledbetterman10 is arguing? Outside of the language used.

You were kind of giving me the same pushback too, though....

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Maybe your number one concern in that sport then should be that everyone should wear helmets?

because cis men can get very hurt by cis men too.

But I take it you're feeling now that my premise is fine, but you don't like wording?

On the pushback -- I think you could have used "transwoman" instead of "man" in the context. Out of some kind of respect. But I also understand what you are saying. And I also understand that you can't be 100% correct all the time and living up to the standard of "absolutely perfect and absolutely up to date".

The second thing. I just find the argument of "safety risks" being odd -- when it is about competition. And then shouldn't the argument start and stop with - the playing field is to different for it to be fair.

Well again, I said my peace on transwomen competing in combat sport competitions against ciswomen (see, I looked it up) so it'd be pointless to repeat myself.

mrussel1 · January 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread.

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions.

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement!

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular.

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?"

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried.

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use.

Give it a fucking rest.

In a few hours 135 unread? Like wth happened here. Did someone stumble into this topic with an extra MSG ticket?

You missed the edited post where I was told "go fuck yourself" and Ledbetter was called a bigot. So yeah, shit went pretty side wise on a topic that could have been interesting.

mrussel1 · January 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on.

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt.

Maybe your number one concern in that sport then should be that everyone should wear helmets?

because cis men can get very hurt by cis men too.

But I take it you're feeling now that my premise is fine, but you don't like wording?

On the pushback -- I think you could have used "transwoman" instead of "man" in the context. Out of some kind of respect. And this came after a discussion you were just involved with about the topic. If I am not mistaken. But I also understand what you are arguing. And I also understand that you can't be 100% correct all the time and always be living up to the standard of "absolutely perfect and absolutely up to date".

The second thing. I just find the argument of "safety risks" being odd -- when it is about competition. And then shouldn't the argument start and stop with - the playing field is too different for it to be fair.

Yes, it could and should be. But that wasn't working so the point I was making, and others I believe, is that there are certain sports where the physical nature is such that it actually could present a safety risk to a cis woman. Certainly boxing, MMA, and even hockey. Imagine if PK Suppan or Zdeno Chara decided they were going to play women's hockey and started replacement therapy. It would be a serious health risk at world class competition, far higher than the inherent risk to the game.

Spiritual_Chaos · January 2020

Image: https://miro.medium.com/max/601/1*8N6p8y2tTf-3x87JsFMzrQ.jpeg

ecdanc · January 2020

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread.

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions.

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement!

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular.

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?"

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried.

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use.

Give it a fucking rest.

In a few hours 135 unread? Like wth happened here. Did someone stumble into this topic with an extra MSG ticket?

You missed the edited post where I was told "go fuck yourself" and Ledbetter was called a bigot. So yeah, shit went pretty side wise on a topic that could have been interesting.

I removed those and apologized.

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