The Democratic Presidential Debates

ecdanc

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

HughFreakingDillon

what i find funny is the rejection of science when it doesn't suit the needs (exclusion based on biology), but acceptance of it when it does (acknowledging that biological sex is linear, not binary). 

ecdanc

HughFreakingDillon said:

what i find funny is the rejection of science when it doesn't suit the needs (exclusion based on biology), but acceptance of it when it does (acknowledging that biological sex is linear, not binary). 

Who's doing that?

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

brianlux said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rogan doesn't hate the left. that's laughable. he also isn't fucking transphobe. that's also just a talking point for outrage seekers. 

Buying into birtherism shows a lack of judgment though.  

that's the first i heard of that. that's admittedly a little concerning. 

Wait, you’re cool with his anti-trans bullshit, but you draw the line at birtherism?

he's not anti-trans. i've listened to him talk a lot about it, and he has no issue with people being trans. he has issues with trans women competing against cis women in sports, which i agree with. imagine if brock lesnar was a trans woman. you think that's a level playing field?

That’s anti-trans, champ. 

no it isn't champ, it's common sense biology. 

Really doubling down on your own transphobia. Bold move. 

You obviously don't know where HFD is coming from.  Why are you bating like this?

I don’t care where he’s coming from. I care that he’s spouting anti-trans nonsense. That’s not baiting. I consider his views extremely harmful. 

how is it harmful to cite science? maybe instead of a women's division and men's division in sports, we create a more all-inclusive based on physical attributes or other types of criteria instead of just penis or vagina?

Did you come up with this idea before you started worrying about trans athletes? And why are we trusting science here? 

Because we try to be enlightened and science has been the way since the middle ages.  What do you trust?  Your gut?  Trump the anti-science guy?  Is that a real counterargument?

You might want to have a look at the history of how science has treated race, sex, gender, and sexuality before wholeheartedly embracing science's approach to areas in which social prejudice is widespread. 

Yeah, compared to religion and other 'reasoning' as well?  I have a pretty good grasp on history, thanks.  I don't get my medical advice from the barber though.  Join the anti-vax movement if you wish.  

Oh FFS. Yes, compared to other forms of reasoning. We had abolitionists coexisting with racist science. We had 2nd-wave feminists talking about sexist science. Science is not now, nor has it ever been, the only way to look at things, and in many cases, brave people bucked the scientific "fact" of their era to do good things. Fetishizing science like you do isn't quite as ridiculous as rejecting all science, but it's not great. You know, there's a middle ground: you can actually evaluate science as it interacts with other areas. 

What way to you recommend looking at this, if not science?  We are talking specifically about competitive athletics, not civil right, marriage, employment, etc.  

I'm saying that "competitive athletics" does not justify saying to any trans person "sure, you're a 'woman,' but...." 

There has to be some standard,  just like every sport.  You haven't answered the question about fairness or safety to the CIs woman.  

I don't believe "fairness" and "safety" IN SPORTS justifies treating trans women differently than other women. In other words, I don't privilege sport over identity. Mine is not a complicated stance, even if you don't like its ramifications. 

I agree you have a simple stance for a complex issue.  Imagine if we had a president that took a complicated problem,  ignored science,  only cared about one groups view,  and made a simple decision.  That sounds just awful. 

Ledbetterman10

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried. 

HughFreakingDillon

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

i'm not sure equating gender dysphoria with being born black is the right way to go here. 

Ledbetterman10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

brianlux said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rogan doesn't hate the left. that's laughable. he also isn't fucking transphobe. that's also just a talking point for outrage seekers. 

Buying into birtherism shows a lack of judgment though.  

that's the first i heard of that. that's admittedly a little concerning. 

Wait, you’re cool with his anti-trans bullshit, but you draw the line at birtherism?

he's not anti-trans. i've listened to him talk a lot about it, and he has no issue with people being trans. he has issues with trans women competing against cis women in sports, which i agree with. imagine if brock lesnar was a trans woman. you think that's a level playing field?

That’s anti-trans, champ. 

no it isn't champ, it's common sense biology. 

Really doubling down on your own transphobia. Bold move. 

You obviously don't know where HFD is coming from.  Why are you bating like this?

I don’t care where he’s coming from. I care that he’s spouting anti-trans nonsense. That’s not baiting. I consider his views extremely harmful. 

how is it harmful to cite science? maybe instead of a women's division and men's division in sports, we create a more all-inclusive based on physical attributes or other types of criteria instead of just penis or vagina?

Did you come up with this idea before you started worrying about trans athletes? And why are we trusting science here? 

Because we try to be enlightened and science has been the way since the middle ages.  What do you trust?  Your gut?  Trump the anti-science guy?  Is that a real counterargument?

You might want to have a look at the history of how science has treated race, sex, gender, and sexuality before wholeheartedly embracing science's approach to areas in which social prejudice is widespread. 

Yeah, compared to religion and other 'reasoning' as well?  I have a pretty good grasp on history, thanks.  I don't get my medical advice from the barber though.  Join the anti-vax movement if you wish.  

Oh FFS. Yes, compared to other forms of reasoning. We had abolitionists coexisting with racist science. We had 2nd-wave feminists talking about sexist science. Science is not now, nor has it ever been, the only way to look at things, and in many cases, brave people bucked the scientific "fact" of their era to do good things. Fetishizing science like you do isn't quite as ridiculous as rejecting all science, but it's not great. You know, there's a middle ground: you can actually evaluate science as it interacts with other areas. 

What way to you recommend looking at this, if not science?  We are talking specifically about competitive athletics, not civil right, marriage, employment, etc.  

I'm saying that "competitive athletics" does not justify saying to any trans person "sure, you're a 'woman,' but...." 

There has to be some standard,  just like every sport.  You haven't answered the question about fairness or safety to the CIs woman.  

I don't believe "fairness" and "safety" IN SPORTS justifies treating trans women differently than other women. In other words, I don't privilege sport over identity. Mine is not a complicated stance, even if you don't like its ramifications. 

I agree you have a simple stance for a complex issue.  Imagine if we had a president that took a complicated problem,  ignored science,  only cared about one groups view,  and made a simple decision.  That sounds just awful. 

Yep, advocating for trans equality is totally Trumpian. *eyeroll* What's funny, is I don't really blink when I hear anti-trans (etc.) language from the Right. I expect it. But it is really disheartening when I hear it from the those that like to imagine themselves as "on the left." Just shows we've got a long way to go, I guess. 

mickeyrat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Remember that Sanders loves and accept everyone - except for assholes and tax-fleeling-billionaires. 

But he's okay with tax fleeing millionaires like himself?  

I will allow that you quote me. Not feeling a bit annoyed.

What do you mean with him being a tax fleeing millionaire ?

He's a millionaire and I'm fairly certain he is paying at the tax code level required.  I've never heard him say he's paying at a marginal rate higher than required by law.  Therefore because we all know that millionaires adn billionaires are under-taxed, he must be in the same camp as them... tax fleeing. 

Emma Watson is tax-fleeing. 

Bernie Sanders pays what he should pay. Or are there raports of him tax-loopholeing his way through life?

Emma Watson is British , so UK government is the proper authority. So to cite her is a distraction and irrelevant to the discussion.

We'll find out soon enough about Bernie, but can go back to tax record releases from 16.....

mrussel1

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Right and goes whole argument it's about sports. 
Btw, I believe term for regular is cisgender.   Identifying with the gender with which you were born.  

Ps.. holy shit.. kobe

ecdanc

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried. 

No, you didn't try. You're on the internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use. 

Spiritual_Chaos

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Maybe your number one concern in that sport then should be that everyone should wear helmets?

because cis men can get very hurt by cis men too. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried. 

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use. 

Give it a fucking rest.   

ecdanc

HughFreakingDillon said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

i'm not sure equating gender dysphoria with being born black is the right way to go here. 

Not what I did, but ok. 

ecdanc

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Not it isn't, and that statement appears bigoted. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Right and goes whole argument it's about sports. 
Btw, I believe term for regular is cisgender.   Identifying with the gender with which you were born.  

Ps.. holy shit.. kobe

One is not born with a gender. 

mrussel1

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Not it isn't, you bigot. 

You're officially over the line

ecdanc

ecdanc said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

Right and goes whole argument it's about sports. 
Btw, I believe term for regular is cisgender.   Identifying with the gender with which you were born.  

Ps.. holy shit.. kobe

One is not born with a gender. 

I should correct myself: one is assigned a gender, sometimes at birth, sometimes prior to that. 

ecdanc

mrussel1 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URz-RYEOaig

Must say I'm a little saddened by this turn in this thread. 

You turned it this way. And video isn’t insulting to trans people. It’s a good satire of the insanity of men who transition to women competing against regular women in athletic competitions. 

"Men who transition to women competing against regular women." We have a winner for the thread's most anti-trans statement! 

I was waiting for that response. Like clockwork, I knew you’d have a problem with “regular” there. Sorry I don’t know the woke term for a female that’s born female and stays female. So I went with regular. 

A transwoman should complete in sports with the men. Her physical dynamics are that if a man’s, and she could hurt the “regular” women. (What’s the gender term you want there that won’t offend you?)

You remind me of my uncle: "well, when I was growing up we just called them [n-words]; how am I supposed to keep up with what they want to be called?" 

Typical. Even when I try to ask what term I can use instead of “regular” so that I can better myself and not be a bigot towards the LGBTQ community, I’m likened to a racist uncle. Oh well, I tried. 

No, you didn't try. You're on the fucking internet. Look it up yourself before you say something offensive. You did not ask what term to use; you mocked the fact that there is a "woke" term. And in the process, you further diminished trans women by suggesting they are not "born female." Don't now try to play like you really care about the words you should use. 

Give it a fucking rest.   

Tell the people who are victims of anti-trans violence to give it a rest. https://www.hrc.org/resources/a-national-epidemic-fatal-anti-trans-violence-in-the-united-states-in-2019

Spiritual_Chaos

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

the ”other women will be hurt” is a really weird argument to fall back on. 

Trans women compete in MMA. That’s a man fighting a woman. That’s dangerous and they can get hurt. 

I am not gonna call you a bigot or be all ”be up to date on the terminalogy or you are satan”

but come on.