until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
for those that argue life begins at conception where can i get my happy conception cards? i can't believe i'm actually 9 months older than i thought all these years.
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it.
I think it depends how far the pregnancy is. Would the baby have been able to survive had it been born at that stage? If so it would be too late for an abortion (unless of course the mothers life is in danger) and could be considered murder. and yes it’s not black and white. for me personally life does not begin at conception. No lungs, no brain, no way the fetus would be able to actually live
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
It's irrelevant whether you "agree with people being sexually irresponsible" - there have been unwanted pregnancies since time immemorial, women have sought out means to end those pregnancies for roughly the same amount of time, and they will continue to do so. Making abortion more difficult to get simply raises the harms associated with it, without doing anything to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Your stance is just sanctimonious punishment of a woman whose behaviour you disagree with, without taking into account all the other factors.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it.
I think it depends how far the pregnancy is. Would the baby have been able to survive had it been born at that stage? If so it would be too late for an abortion (unless of course the mothers life is in danger) and could be considered murder. and yes it’s not black and white. for me personally life does not begin at conception. No lungs, no brain, no way the fetus would be able to actually live
Another grey area there, though. Viability is somewhat determined by modern medicine. Don’t want to get to science fictiony here, ha. I remember having some of these fun debates in philosophy class
for those that argue life begins at conception where can i get my happy conception cards? i can't believe i'm actually 9 months older than i thought all these years.
Ha, my child was born two weeks after his due date. So he was fully formed, just cushy in mommy’s womb . Had been sucking on his wrist so much inside the womb that he had a hicky on it! Should he be considered older than he is...no, but he was definitely “alive” before his actual birth.
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
It's irrelevant whether you "agree with people being sexually irresponsible" - there have been unwanted pregnancies since time immemorial, women have sought out means to end those pregnancies for roughly the same amount of time, and they will continue to do so. Making abortion more difficult to get simply raises the harms associated with it, without doing anything to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Your stance is just sanctimonious punishment of a woman whose behaviour you disagree with, without taking into account all the other factors.
I think you are being dismissive to my point that was exactly what you ended your comment with...all factors must be accounted for. I cannot bring myself to be supportive of abortions on a whim. “Sanctimonious punishment of women”...please...Can I conclude that you are more on the “black and white” side of opinions with this issue?
Post edited by PJPOWER on
0
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,651
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,651
then theres this. read all of the provisions of the newest law from Georgia....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
It's irrelevant whether you "agree with people being sexually irresponsible" - there have been unwanted pregnancies since time immemorial, women have sought out means to end those pregnancies for roughly the same amount of time, and they will continue to do so. Making abortion more difficult to get simply raises the harms associated with it, without doing anything to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Your stance is just sanctimonious punishment of a woman whose behaviour you disagree with, without taking into account all the other factors.
I think you are being dismissive to my point that was exactly what you ended your comment with...all factors must be accounted for. I cannot bring myself to be supportive of abortions on a whim. “Sanctimonious punishment of women”...please...Can I conclude that you are more on the “black and white” side of opinions with this issue?
Black and white? Yes, and so are you. It’s a binary decision - one is either for a woman’s right to control her own body, or not; either pro-choice, or not. There’s no such thing as “kind of an abortion”, so when it’s a yes or no decision, it’s black and white.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
From the article: “if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued.”
Don’t some states consider it child abuse to do drugs while pregnant? I know that babies born with drugs or alcohol in their system or experiencing withdrawals at birth are often removed from the parents and the mothers can face abuse charges.
until lungs have developed to oxygenate the blood either on its own or with medical help outside of the womb ,its not life. ..
So, honest question, a man causes his girlfriend who is pregnant to lose the baby. The woman wanted the baby. Is it just assault?
Main difference is that the choice wasn’t hers
I think he is asking whether or not it should be considered murder....if life doesn’t begin until out of the womb and is just part of the woman’s body while inside. Not life= “just” assault Life=Murder This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
It's irrelevant whether you "agree with people being sexually irresponsible" - there have been unwanted pregnancies since time immemorial, women have sought out means to end those pregnancies for roughly the same amount of time, and they will continue to do so. Making abortion more difficult to get simply raises the harms associated with it, without doing anything to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Your stance is just sanctimonious punishment of a woman whose behaviour you disagree with, without taking into account all the other factors.
I think you are being dismissive to my point that was exactly what you ended your comment with...all factors must be accounted for. I cannot bring myself to be supportive of abortions on a whim. “Sanctimonious punishment of women”...please...Can I conclude that you are more on the “black and white” side of opinions with this issue?
Black and white? Yes, and so are you. It’s a binary decision - one is either for a woman’s right to control her own body, or not; either pro-choice, or not. There’s no such thing as “kind of an abortion”, so when it’s a yes or no decision, it’s black and white.
Yeah, I don’t think we are going to see eye to eye on this, but thanks for your respectful opinion. I probably would not vote for a candidate that aligns with your ideology if it were the deciding topic in the election.
From the article: “if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued.”
Don’t some states consider it child abuse to do drugs while pregnant? I know that babies born with drugs or alcohol in their system or experiencing withdrawals at birth are often removed from the parents and the mothers can face abuse charges.
That has to be a frightening prospect for a black woman that is pregnant or wishes to be though...this seems like something that's going to turn into arbitrary interpretations and enforcement. Anyone with faith that it's going to be administered justly (to whatever extent it's just in the first place) is pretty naive. Women on trial because of a miscarriage are going to be treated like, well, rape victims. Blood-thirst prosecuters will find about about their sexual past, fights they were in in high school, and other acts unrelated to the pregnancy. Will DUIs from their past be used as assumptions that they caused something to happen now? Will they be jailed, or not, based on what juries think of them as people. Will actual experts be ignored in favor of the ferver to get "justice" for the innocent unborn child? This law is rooted in the idea of a fetus being more valuable than a woman (or girl). Miscarriages are common and drug laws are used to lock black men up all the time. Is this going to be the way to lock black women up? It's pretty scary.
EDIT: The prosecutor's role will probably be to plead them down to a felony with minimal punishment and minimal court hassle. Then they won't be able to vote.
Post edited by OnWis97 on
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
From the article: “if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued.”
Don’t some states consider it child abuse to do drugs while pregnant? I know that babies born with drugs or alcohol in their system or experiencing withdrawals at birth are often removed from the parents and the mothers can face abuse charges.
That has to be a frightening prospect for a black woman that is pregnant or wishes to be though...this seems like something that's going to turn into arbitrary interpretations and enforcement. Anyone with faith that it's going to be administered justly (to whatever extent it's just in the first place) is pretty naive. Women on trial because of a miscarriage are going to be treated like, well, rape victims. Blood-thirst prosecuters will find about about their sexual past, fights they were in in high school, and other acts unrelated to the pregnancy. Will DUIs from their past be used as assumptions that they caused something to happen now? Will they be jailed, or not, based on what juries think of them as people. Will actual experts be ignored in favor of the ferver to get "justice" for the innocent unborn child? This law is rooted in the idea of a fetus being more valuable than a woman (or girl). Miscarriages are common and drug laws are used to lock black men up all the time. Is this going to be the way to lock black women up? It's pretty scary.
Those are great questions. Drug laws do effect the populations where they proliferate, which is unfortunately in low income areas and often in areas with high black demographics (for whatever reason people want to conclude). So, yes, these laws would disproportionately effect those areas more than your high income areas. Bill Clinton found that out the hard way when pushing the search and seize laws in the 90s. But what laws (other than tax evasion or money laundering etc) don’t? It could be argued that gun control laws would directly disproportionately effect those demographics to a greater degree too...
Post edited by PJPOWER on
0
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,651
From the article: “if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued.”
Don’t some states consider it child abuse to do drugs while pregnant? I know that babies born with drugs or alcohol in their system or experiencing withdrawals at birth are often removed from the parents and the mothers can face abuse charges.
That has to be a frightening prospect for a black woman that is pregnant or wishes to be though...this seems like something that's going to turn into arbitrary interpretations and enforcement. Anyone with faith that it's going to be administered justly (to whatever extent it's just in the first place) is pretty naive. Women on trial because of a miscarriage are going to be treated like, well, rape victims. Blood-thirst prosecuters will find about about their sexual past, fights they were in in high school, and other acts unrelated to the pregnancy. Will DUIs from their past be used as assumptions that they caused something to happen now? Will they be jailed, or not, based on what juries think of them as people. Will actual experts be ignored in favor of the ferver to get "justice" for the innocent unborn child? This law is rooted in the idea of a fetus being more valuable than a woman (or girl). Miscarriages are common and drug laws are used to lock black men up all the time. Is this going to be the way to lock black women up? It's pretty scary.
EDIT: The prosecutor's role will probably be to plead them down to a felony with minimal punishment and minimal court hassle. Then they won't be able to vote.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It has always amazed me that pro choice is more left leaning. You would think the compassion and progressiveness displayed would carry into this topic. But instead it is turned into a for or against women debate.
I wish both genders could have babies. It especially shouldn’t just be the woman who has a say in the discussion to abort or not. It isn’t just your child. (Or child to be ...)
I don't understand how a discussion about making abortion illegal could happen without it turning towards a debate for or against women. Huh? Making abortion illegal IS against women, and the vast majority of those driving that change in government are men. So how do you figure the conversation would go any other way? And why does it amaze you that the pro-choice movement is left leaning? Because they get angry when the government tries to take control of women's bodies? I think that is a great reason to get angry and to start fighting ruthlessly. Do you expect the left to have compassion for those who want to hand the government control over women's bodies??
And yes, whether you wish it weren't the case or not, women are indeed the only ones whose bodies are at risk of being controlled, so obviously they are the only ones who have a say on whether to abort or not. That may not seem fair to some people, but it is what it is, too bad, so sad. Suggesting anything different again only really suggests that women's bodies aren't their own, and I hope it's obvious why that is not an option.
It's not "against women" for everyone. they just feel that abortion is murdering a human baby, which is a bigger deal to them than their own autonomy. i don't really get this "there is no debate" "it's all black and white" because it's not.
i am pro choice because everyone should have their own choice, obviously. but many people believe that abortion is murder, no matter who it is. you can't see that what some perceive as murder to be more serious than having a baby, especially when pregnancy is 100% preventable? i can totally see that side, even though i don't necessarily agree with it.
now, if it were as a result of rape, then of course, that is a different story.
I don't care if people don't think it's against women. It IS against women. Period. Those who don't "think" of it that way just aren't thinking enough in general - they are ignoring the most important issue.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It has always amazed me that pro choice is more left leaning. You would think the compassion and progressiveness displayed would carry into this topic. But instead it is turned into a for or against women debate.
I wish both genders could have babies. It especially shouldn’t just be the woman who has a say in the discussion to abort or not. It isn’t just your child. (Or child to be ...)
I don't understand how a discussion about making abortion illegal could happen without it turning towards a debate for or against women. Huh? Making abortion illegal IS against women, and the vast majority of those driving that change in government are men. So how do you figure the conversation would go any other way? And why does it amaze you that the pro-choice movement is left leaning? Because they get angry when the government tries to take control of women's bodies? I think that is a great reason to get angry and to start fighting ruthlessly. Do you expect the left to have compassion for those who want to hand the government control over women's bodies??
And yes, whether you wish it weren't the case or not, women are indeed the only ones whose bodies are at risk of being controlled, so obviously they are the only ones who have a say on whether to abort or not. That may not seem fair to some people, but it is what it is, too bad, so sad. Suggesting anything different again only really suggests that women's bodies aren't their own, and I hope it's obvious why that is not an option.
It's not "against women" for everyone. they just feel that abortion is murdering a human baby, which is a bigger deal to them than their own autonomy. i don't really get this "there is no debate" "it's all black and white" because it's not.
i am pro choice because everyone should have their own choice, obviously. but many people believe that abortion is murder, no matter who it is. you can't see that what some perceive as murder to be more serious than having a baby, especially when pregnancy is 100% preventable? i can totally see that side, even though i don't necessarily agree with it.
now, if it were as a result of rape, then of course, that is a different story.
I don't care if people don't think it's against women. It IS against women. Period. Those who don't "think" of it that way just aren't thinking enough in general - they are ignoring the most important issue.
Of course, it's against women...as a man I'm appalled...
Of course, I believe it's your body...do as you please...it's the one thing we truly can call our own.
Government shouldn't be able to tell me to buckle up, my body, my choice. Shouldn’t be able to tell me what drugs I can use, my body, my choice...
When it comes to the creation and argument of life, I think the government should have some sort of say. We all know extreme bans are harmful, but just allowing them willy nilly? Not so great
Post edited by drakeheuer14 on
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
Government shouldn't be able to tell me to buckle up, my body, my choice. Shouldn’t be able to tell me what drugs I can use, my body, my choice...
When it comes to the creation and argument of life, I think the government should have some sort of say. We all know extreme bans are harmful, but just allowing them willy nilly? Not so great
No, the government absolutely should not have any sort of say about what is going on INSIDE of someone's body. That is crazy.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It has always amazed me that pro choice is more left leaning. You would think the compassion and progressiveness displayed would carry into this topic. But instead it is turned into a for or against women debate.
I wish both genders could have babies. It especially shouldn’t just be the woman who has a say in the discussion to abort or not. It isn’t just your child. (Or child to be ...)
I don't understand how a discussion about making abortion illegal could happen without it turning towards a debate for or against women. Huh? Making abortion illegal IS against women, and the vast majority of those driving that change in government are men. So how do you figure the conversation would go any other way? And why does it amaze you that the pro-choice movement is left leaning? Because they get angry when the government tries to take control of women's bodies? I think that is a great reason to get angry and to start fighting ruthlessly. Do you expect the left to have compassion for those who want to hand the government control over women's bodies??
And yes, whether you wish it weren't the case or not, women are indeed the only ones whose bodies are at risk of being controlled, so obviously they are the only ones who have a say on whether to abort or not. That may not seem fair to some people, but it is what it is, too bad, so sad. Suggesting anything different again only really suggests that women's bodies aren't their own, and I hope it's obvious why that is not an option.
It's not "against women" for everyone. they just feel that abortion is murdering a human baby, which is a bigger deal to them than their own autonomy. i don't really get this "there is no debate" "it's all black and white" because it's not.
i am pro choice because everyone should have their own choice, obviously. but many people believe that abortion is murder, no matter who it is. you can't see that what some perceive as murder to be more serious than having a baby, especially when pregnancy is 100% preventable? i can totally see that side, even though i don't necessarily agree with it.
now, if it were as a result of rape, then of course, that is a different story.
I don't care if people don't think it's against women. It IS against women. Period. Those who don't "think" of it that way just aren't thinking enough in general - they are ignoring the most important issue.
well, then, there's really no need for this discussion to continue.
Government shouldn't be able to tell me to buckle up, my body, my choice. Shouldn’t be able to tell me what drugs I can use, my body, my choice...
When it comes to the creation and argument of life, I think the government should have some sort of say. We all know extreme bans are harmful, but just allowing them willy nilly? Not so great
No, the government absolutely should not have any sort of say about what is going on INSIDE of someone's body. That is crazy.
yet you want to forcefully vaccinate young children against their/their parents' will. how do those two things line up?
It has always amazed me that pro choice is more left leaning. You would think the compassion and progressiveness displayed would carry into this topic. But instead it is turned into a for or against women debate.
I wish both genders could have babies. It especially shouldn’t just be the woman who has a say in the discussion to abort or not. It isn’t just your child. (Or child to be ...)
I don't understand how a discussion about making abortion illegal could happen without it turning towards a debate for or against women. Huh? Making abortion illegal IS against women, and the vast majority of those driving that change in government are men. So how do you figure the conversation would go any other way? And why does it amaze you that the pro-choice movement is left leaning? Because they get angry when the government tries to take control of women's bodies? I think that is a great reason to get angry and to start fighting ruthlessly. Do you expect the left to have compassion for those who want to hand the government control over women's bodies??
And yes, whether you wish it weren't the case or not, women are indeed the only ones whose bodies are at risk of being controlled, so obviously they are the only ones who have a say on whether to abort or not. That may not seem fair to some people, but it is what it is, too bad, so sad. Suggesting anything different again only really suggests that women's bodies aren't their own, and I hope it's obvious why that is not an option.
It's not "against women" for everyone. they just feel that abortion is murdering a human baby, which is a bigger deal to them than their own autonomy. i don't really get this "there is no debate" "it's all black and white" because it's not.
i am pro choice because everyone should have their own choice, obviously. but many people believe that abortion is murder, no matter who it is. you can't see that what some perceive as murder to be more serious than having a baby, especially when pregnancy is 100% preventable? i can totally see that side, even though i don't necessarily agree with it.
now, if it were as a result of rape, then of course, that is a different story.
I don't care if people don't think it's against women. It IS against women. Period. Those who don't "think" of it that way just aren't thinking enough in general - they are ignoring the most important issue.
well, then, there's really no need for this discussion to continue.
Government shouldn't be able to tell me to buckle up, my body, my choice. Shouldn’t be able to tell me what drugs I can use, my body, my choice...
When it comes to the creation and argument of life, I think the government should have some sort of say. We all know extreme bans are harmful, but just allowing them willy nilly? Not so great
No, the government absolutely should not have any sort of say about what is going on INSIDE of someone's body. That is crazy.
yet you want to forcefully vaccinate young children against their/their parents' will. how do those two things line up?
Absolutely, because that is a public health issue that affects others, and public safety always comes before individual rights. But abortion is not a public safety issue - it is solely about what is happening inside of one person's body. I thought that would have been obvious.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It has always amazed me that pro choice is more left leaning. You would think the compassion and progressiveness displayed would carry into this topic. But instead it is turned into a for or against women debate.
I wish both genders could have babies. It especially shouldn’t just be the woman who has a say in the discussion to abort or not. It isn’t just your child. (Or child to be ...)
I don't understand how a discussion about making abortion illegal could happen without it turning towards a debate for or against women. Huh? Making abortion illegal IS against women, and the vast majority of those driving that change in government are men. So how do you figure the conversation would go any other way? And why does it amaze you that the pro-choice movement is left leaning? Because they get angry when the government tries to take control of women's bodies? I think that is a great reason to get angry and to start fighting ruthlessly. Do you expect the left to have compassion for those who want to hand the government control over women's bodies??
And yes, whether you wish it weren't the case or not, women are indeed the only ones whose bodies are at risk of being controlled, so obviously they are the only ones who have a say on whether to abort or not. That may not seem fair to some people, but it is what it is, too bad, so sad. Suggesting anything different again only really suggests that women's bodies aren't their own, and I hope it's obvious why that is not an option.
It's not "against women" for everyone. they just feel that abortion is murdering a human baby, which is a bigger deal to them than their own autonomy. i don't really get this "there is no debate" "it's all black and white" because it's not.
i am pro choice because everyone should have their own choice, obviously. but many people believe that abortion is murder, no matter who it is. you can't see that what some perceive as murder to be more serious than having a baby, especially when pregnancy is 100% preventable? i can totally see that side, even though i don't necessarily agree with it.
now, if it were as a result of rape, then of course, that is a different story.
I don't care if people don't think it's against women. It IS against women. Period. Those who don't "think" of it that way just aren't thinking enough in general - they are ignoring the most important issue.
well, then, there's really no need for this discussion to continue.
*case closed*
Anti-choice laws make slaves of women. Yes indeed, case closed.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Not life= “just” assault
Life=Murder
This isn’t all as black and white as some try to make it. For the record, I am pro-choice to a certain degree because I know that this isn’t a black and white issue and feel that there are valid reasons for ending a pregnancy (a life) and completely invalid ones as well. I do not agree with people being sexually irresponsible and yet I do not agree with women being forced to carry a rapist’s baby.
and yes it’s not black and white.
for me personally life does not begin at conception. No lungs, no brain, no way the fetus would be able to actually live
It's irrelevant whether you "agree with people being sexually irresponsible" - there have been unwanted pregnancies since time immemorial, women have sought out means to end those pregnancies for roughly the same amount of time, and they will continue to do so. Making abortion more difficult to get simply raises the harms associated with it, without doing anything to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Your stance is just sanctimonious punishment of a woman whose behaviour you disagree with, without taking into account all the other factors.
“Sanctimonious punishment of women”...please...Can I conclude that you are more on the “black and white” side of opinions with this issue?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
“if they can prove the miscarriage was a result of the woman's own conduct, like drug or alcohol use, as Slate argued.”
Don’t some states consider it child abuse to do drugs while pregnant? I know that babies born with drugs or alcohol in their system or experiencing withdrawals at birth are often removed from the parents and the mothers can face abuse charges.
were the deciding topic in the election.
EDIT: The prosecutor's role will probably be to plead them down to a felony with minimal punishment and minimal court hassle. Then they won't be able to vote.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Of course, I believe it's your body...do as you please...it's the one thing we truly can call our own.
When it comes to the creation and argument of life, I think the government should have some sort of say. We all know extreme bans are harmful, but just allowing them willy nilly? Not so great
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
*case closed*
Cheers,
HFD
Cheers,
HFD
Cheers,
HFD