Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

mickeyrat

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

drakeheuer14

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mrussel1 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I know I am one of the few around here to agree with heavy abortion restrictions, so I am not really a fan of posting here, so instead I come with a question. Apologies if it’s ignorant. The topic of pregnancies from rape is always one of the first things around abortion restrictions that people bring up. Rape is horrific and it’s one of the only things that makes me question my stance on this topic. 

In the case of a rape though, wouldn’t pregnancy be something the victim is seriously worried about to begin with after it happens? Why aren’t they consistently taking pregnancy tests each week or so after it happens? Then the 6 week limit doesn’t seem so crazy or as surprising of a timeline to accept since tests can detect as early as 10 days after conception, correct? 

The trauma? Finances? Age of victims perhaps?

All those things.. but the question is why put that arbitrary six weeks as a deadline?  Clearly this law is intended to eliminate 90% of abortions without technically running afoul of Roe.  6 weeks is one missed period plus two weeks? The stress and trauma from rape,  let alone normal life,  can cause a woman to miss her period. 

I mean there has to be restrictions around abortion of some sort don’t you think? It might be arbitrary, but so are a lot of rules/laws. But then it comes back to when does life begin which is a topic that will never have an agreement. 

heartbeat detected at 6 weeks sure, but can the fetus survive outside the womb?

that doesnt usually happen until the lungs have developed. at at least 20 weeks.....

and God breathed life into Adam.....

I mean grown adults can’t survive without certain devices - but we don’t just cut their life off because they rely on something/someone to survive. 

honest question (and this isn't a "trap", just yes or no and that's it)

do you feel the rights of the fetus outweigh the rights of the host?

I don’t think it’s that simple. Equal rights until the scales are tilted harming the host is where I am at. 

Since I view them as two separate beings, equal is the only answer most of the time. 

So if a 13 year old is raped by her Father...becomes pregnant, but doesn't say anything out of fear, you are ok with the government forcing her to give birth to a rape baby? (if beyond the six week period being discussed here)

I don’t know is my only answer right now. 

Isn’t the amount of cases from rape and incest really small compared to the number of abortions in total? Their are extremes in every situation. 

mickeyrat

every texas male who jerks off has aborted untold multitudes of potential babies.

sue them all.....

Gern Blansten

drakeheuer14 said:

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mrussel1 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I know I am one of the few around here to agree with heavy abortion restrictions, so I am not really a fan of posting here, so instead I come with a question. Apologies if it’s ignorant. The topic of pregnancies from rape is always one of the first things around abortion restrictions that people bring up. Rape is horrific and it’s one of the only things that makes me question my stance on this topic. 

In the case of a rape though, wouldn’t pregnancy be something the victim is seriously worried about to begin with after it happens? Why aren’t they consistently taking pregnancy tests each week or so after it happens? Then the 6 week limit doesn’t seem so crazy or as surprising of a timeline to accept since tests can detect as early as 10 days after conception, correct? 

The trauma? Finances? Age of victims perhaps?

All those things.. but the question is why put that arbitrary six weeks as a deadline?  Clearly this law is intended to eliminate 90% of abortions without technically running afoul of Roe.  6 weeks is one missed period plus two weeks? The stress and trauma from rape,  let alone normal life,  can cause a woman to miss her period. 

I mean there has to be restrictions around abortion of some sort don’t you think? It might be arbitrary, but so are a lot of rules/laws. But then it comes back to when does life begin which is a topic that will never have an agreement. 

heartbeat detected at 6 weeks sure, but can the fetus survive outside the womb?

that doesnt usually happen until the lungs have developed. at at least 20 weeks.....

and God breathed life into Adam.....

I mean grown adults can’t survive without certain devices - but we don’t just cut their life off because they rely on something/someone to survive. 

honest question (and this isn't a "trap", just yes or no and that's it)

do you feel the rights of the fetus outweigh the rights of the host?

I don’t think it’s that simple. Equal rights until the scales are tilted harming the host is where I am at. 

Since I view them as two separate beings, equal is the only answer most of the time. 

So if a 13 year old is raped by her Father...becomes pregnant, but doesn't say anything out of fear, you are ok with the government forcing her to give birth to a rape baby? (if beyond the six week period being discussed here)

I don’t know is my only answer right now. 

Isn’t the amount of cases from rape and incest really small compared to the number of abortions in total? Their are extremes in every situation. 

I'm sure that's the case....but the law still prevents it right? 

drakeheuer14

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

every texas male who jerks off has aborted untold multitudes of potential babies.

sue them all.....

All of those poor babies that die in socks and toilet paper....tragic

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

every texas male who jerks off has aborted untold multitudes of potential babies.

sue them all.....

All of those poor babies that die in socks and toilet paper....tragic

Don't you talk bad about my magic sock.

drakeheuer14

mrussel1 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mrussel1 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mrussel1 said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I know I am one of the few around here to agree with heavy abortion restrictions, so I am not really a fan of posting here, so instead I come with a question. Apologies if it’s ignorant. The topic of pregnancies from rape is always one of the first things around abortion restrictions that people bring up. Rape is horrific and it’s one of the only things that makes me question my stance on this topic. 

In the case of a rape though, wouldn’t pregnancy be something the victim is seriously worried about to begin with after it happens? Why aren’t they consistently taking pregnancy tests each week or so after it happens? Then the 6 week limit doesn’t seem so crazy or as surprising of a timeline to accept since tests can detect as early as 10 days after conception, correct? 

The trauma? Finances? Age of victims perhaps?

All those things.. but the question is why put that arbitrary six weeks as a deadline?  Clearly this law is intended to eliminate 90% of abortions without technically running afoul of Roe.  6 weeks is one missed period plus two weeks? The stress and trauma from rape,  let alone normal life,  can cause a woman to miss her period. 

I mean there has to be restrictions around abortion of some sort don’t you think? It might be arbitrary, but so are a lot of rules/laws. But then it comes back to when does life begin which is a topic that will never have an agreement. 

heartbeat detected at 6 weeks sure, but can the fetus survive outside the womb?

that doesnt usually happen until the lungs have developed. at at least 20 weeks.....

and God breathed life into Adam.....

I mean grown adults can’t survive without certain devices - but we don’t just cut their life off because they rely on something/someone to survive. 

honest question (and this isn't a "trap", just yes or no and that's it)

do you feel the rights of the fetus outweigh the rights of the host?

I don’t think it’s that simple. Equal rights until the scales are tilted harming the host is where I am at. 

Under that theory, you cannot support abortion no matter the length of the term. 

Well, you are right. I don’t “support” it. 

I understand the position of those with opposing views and situations though. 

I think Bill Clinton said it perfectly when he said abortion should be safe and rare.  If we are going to ban it (or almost, like this law does) then we damned better be ready to create a massive new support network and welfare state for all of the mothers who don't want to be mothers and all of the children that will be abandoned to the state.  

Second, if you ever read the book Freakonomics, there was a compelling case that was made how the drop in the crime in the 90s and forward was tied directly to the federal legalization of abortion.  Unwanted children are not successful in life. 

And I agree it should be safe and rare when allowed. If we ban it, I completely agree with your proposal of providing proper support. 

I hate that second part though. It’s like saying the Purge has a good premise because the rest of the year murder rates were significantly lower. 

Unwanted children are not successful in life? At least they had a life and had that opportunity to do with it what they wanted. 

gimmesometruth27

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

lol imagine the outrage over this when we can't even have a civilized school board meeting to calmly discuss use of masks on kids during a global pandemic.

HughFreakingDillon

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

it highlights the inequality of the whole premise of the abortion debate. largely privleged while males get to decide what women of all races, colours, economic background and ethnicities get to do with their own bodies. it's absurd. why don't, instead, we make it a country-wide referendum? instead of these "representatives" deciding, let the people decide. 

and let's be real: if men were the ones who carried fetuses, this would NOT even be up for debate. 

gimmesometruth27

Out of My Mind and Time said:

Packing the courts is loser mentality 

it is gonna happen.

Gern Blansten

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

So require the 13 year old rape victim to do what now?

mickeyrat

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

pregnancies dont happen in a vaccuum.yet, only one party seems to have to bear the burden of all of it. so maybe its not such an extreme after all. but a balancing of the scales.

so while my stance for me personally, I am not sure I could make the decision to abort.IF i were included in such a decision in the first place.

yet I am certain, I dont have the right to tell others how they need to conduct their lives with a blanket declaration.

drakeheuer14

HughFreakingDillon said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

it highlights the inequality of the whole premise of the abortion debate. largely privleged while males get to decide what women of all races, colours, economic background and ethnicities get to do with their own bodies. it's absurd. why don't, instead, we make it a country-wide referendum? instead of these "representatives" deciding, let the people decide. 

and let's be real: if men were the ones who carried fetuses, this would NOT even be up for debate. 

I get it. But thats where a big divide comes into play. It’s not just their body anymore. Everyone mentions it always being such a hard decision for women to decide to get an abortion or not… I wonder why part of that is? Maybe it’s because they realize new life is being given or taken.

Halifax2TheMax

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Name a medical procedure denied to men by law. The hypocrisy of the anti-vax “my body, my choice” movement is astounding. Oh, and faux libertarians.

Gern Blansten

drakeheuer14 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

it highlights the inequality of the whole premise of the abortion debate. largely privleged while males get to decide what women of all races, colours, economic background and ethnicities get to do with their own bodies. it's absurd. why don't, instead, we make it a country-wide referendum? instead of these "representatives" deciding, let the people decide. 

and let's be real: if men were the ones who carried fetuses, this would NOT even be up for debate. 

I get it. But thats where a big divide comes into play. It’s not just their body anymore. Everyone mentions it always being such a hard decision for women to decide to get an abortion or not… I wonder why part of that is? Maybe it’s because they realize new life is being given or taken.

But it is just their body.  An amoeba doesn't care if it is aborted or not.

drakeheuer14

mickeyrat said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

pregnancies dont happen in a vaccuum.yet, only one party seems to have to bear the burden of all of it. so maybe its not such an extreme after all. but a balancing of the scales.

so while my stance for me personally, I am not sure I could make the decision to abort.IF i were included in such a decision in the first place.

yet I am certain, I dont have the right to tell others how they need to conduct their lives with a blanket declaration.

I understand and agree that all of the burden shouldn’t be placed on the woman and we should be doing everything in our power to either make the other party way more accountable or provide the necessary resources so both the mother and child still have a fair shake at life.

drakeheuer14

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

So require the 13 year old rape victim to do what now?

I don’t have an answer for you. I get on the surface level how hard that would be since I will never be in that situation. But the situation around it doesn’t change in my mind that new life is being carried within her. So me saying yay abortion will never happen

drakeheuer14

Halifax2TheMax said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Name a medical procedure denied to men by law. The hypocrisy of the anti-vax “my body, my choice” movement is astounding. Oh, and faux libertarians.

But this takes into account a new life! I have said it many times, I wish both men and women could give birth so my views and those that share it weren’t viewed as hypocritical. There are plenty of women who share my views. 

Im not anti vax? Second shot is scheduled for next Tuesday actually. 

The Juggler

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but you can pretty much blame Roe v Wade eventually being overturned on all the far left folks who stayed home in 2016 and let a monster like Donald Trump become president. 

Gern Blansten

drakeheuer14 said:

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

So require the 13 year old rape victim to do what now?

I don’t have an answer for you. I get on the surface level how hard that would be since I will never be in that situation. But the situation around it doesn’t change in my mind that new life is being carried within her. So me saying yay abortion will never happen

No one says "yay abortion"...that attitude is why we have such a problem discussing this.

You call people "pro abortion" and nothing could be further from the truth.  I wish they were not necessary but that isn't realistic. 

I'm always amazed that people in the GOP (the "small government" party) are always willing to have the government get between a female and her doctor.

The Juggler

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

So require the 13 year old rape victim to do what now?

I don’t have an answer for you. I get on the surface level how hard that would be since I will never be in that situation. But the situation around it doesn’t change in my mind that new life is being carried within her. So me saying yay abortion will never happen

No one says "yay abortion"...that attitude is why we have such a problem discussing this.

You call people "pro abortion" and nothing could be further from the truth.  I wish they were not necessary but that isn't realistic. 

I'm always amazed that people in the GOP (the "small government" party) are always willing to have the government get between a female and her doctor.

They're the furthest thing from small government anymore. 

HughFreakingDillon

drakeheuer14 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Name a medical procedure denied to men by law. The hypocrisy of the anti-vax “my body, my choice” movement is astounding. Oh, and faux libertarians.

But this takes into account a new life! I have said it many times, I wish both men and women could give birth so my views and those that share it weren’t viewed as hypocritical. There are plenty of women who share my views. 

Im not anti vax? Second shot is scheduled for next Tuesday actually. 

of course there. My wife and I had this discussion prior to getting married; if we were to accidentally conceive, she could never abort, and I supported that decision, because it is hers and hers alone. 

FiveBelow

The main issue I see with 6 weeks is for those who's reasoning is the exception (rape, minor or fetal/mother health concerns). Fortunately rape only accounts for roughly 1% of abortions but I do not agree with holding those individuals to the same 6 week standard. I feel minors should be given leniency as most just don't understand the consequences and are more likely to be unaware. Fetal/mother health concerns would seem to be the biggest issue because so much can happen after the 6 week mark. As someone who knows first hand the difficulty for many to even have children, it is very easy to avoid getting pregnant if your reasoning is simply not being ready for a child and in that case 6 weeks may force more responsibility. According to the CDC, 40% of abortions reported by known gestational age already occur at less than 6 weeks so that shows it is not rare. To be clear, my stance is in support of my wife's feelings. As a man I recognize this topic is not for me to decide. Have any exceptions been mentioned, or is this just the typical knee jerk reaction?

drakeheuer14

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

Gern Blansten said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

So require the 13 year old rape victim to do what now?

I don’t have an answer for you. I get on the surface level how hard that would be since I will never be in that situation. But the situation around it doesn’t change in my mind that new life is being carried within her. So me saying yay abortion will never happen

No one says "yay abortion"...that attitude is why we have such a problem discussing this.

You call people "pro abortion" and nothing could be further from the truth.  I wish they were not necessary but that isn't realistic. 

I'm always amazed that people in the GOP (the "small government" party) are always willing to have the government get between a female and her doctor.

Poorly worded. But you are trying to imply that I should support abortion, and I just don’t. 

I can’t go back in time and change the narrative. Pro-abortion is just where we are in the terminology these days. I don’t like pro-choice, because it oversimplifies it and turns it into a positive. It just is what it is now. 

It’s preservation of life that I am after. The fetus may rely on the mother, but again, fully grown people rely on meds, devices and others to survive as well. 

Halifax2TheMax

drakeheuer14 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Name a medical procedure denied to men by law. The hypocrisy of the anti-vax “my body, my choice” movement is astounding. Oh, and faux libertarians.

But this takes into account a new life! I have said it many times, I wish both men and women could give birth so my views and those that share it weren’t viewed as hypocritical. There are plenty of women who share my views. 

Im not anti vax? Second shot is scheduled for next Tuesday actually. 

Don’t vasectomies take into account the potential for “life?” I say if you’re going to ban abortion then ban vasectomies. Let’s see how men react to “my body, my choice.”

I didn’t say you were anti-vax. Just the hypocrisy of places like Tejas and Flo Rida or the pro-life anti-vaxxers using “my body, my choice” as a rallying cry.

Parksy

Woman's choice. 100%   

Tupac nailed it with that Keep Your Head Up song. 

drakeheuer14

Halifax2TheMax said:

drakeheuer14 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

drakeheuer14 said:

mickeyrat said:

lets do this, forced vasectomies for all pubescent boys, reversable of course. When buddy boy feels ready to be daddy. reverse it.....

This extreme solution always confuses me. I get it’s said in jest (mostly), but extreme situations aside, it takes two to party. So if the goal is prevention, how about we make females take the same over protective precaution at the same time? 

Name a medical procedure denied to men by law. The hypocrisy of the anti-vax “my body, my choice” movement is astounding. Oh, and faux libertarians.

But this takes into account a new life! I have said it many times, I wish both men and women could give birth so my views and those that share it weren’t viewed as hypocritical. There are plenty of women who share my views. 

Im not anti vax? Second shot is scheduled for next Tuesday actually. 

Don’t vasectomies take into account the potential for “life?” I say if you’re going to ban abortion then ban vasectomies. Let’s see how men react to “my body, my choice.”

I didn’t say you were anti-vax. Just the hypocrisy of places like Tejas and Flo Rida or the pro-life anti-vaxxers using “my body, my choice” as a rallying cry.

I dont think we are on the same page. The potential for life and a genetically unique being that’s created are different.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten

mickeyrat said:

No shit...unreal