Donald Trump
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Poor poor kathy...Halifax2TheMax said:
Did the woman holding the dumb repub sign suffer a backlash, ostracism, shouted down by her brethren? Shunning used to be popular.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah, it's worse. The conservative is just a random woman with a sign, while the liberal is a celebrity showing off violent imagery. I guess if I went with Antifa protesters it would have been more equivalent. Or liberals pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court following the Kavanaugh confirmation.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2018/06/01/kathy-griffins-comeback-tour-is-on-track-to-make-millions/#771dfa9f2cc9
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I think it stretches the definition of 'art', to be kind. If there was a sculpture of a priest molesting a child, is that art? They are both depictions of heinous crimes. I know I'm stirring it up with this one.cincybearcat said:
Kathy was participating in some thought out public douchebaggery.PJ_Soul said:
Well he did say it was an equivalent, so you can't blame me for thinking that's what he meant. But, um, what?? You think an art piece is a threat?? I could not disagree with you more strongly on that. No, I'm not in denial, I am drawing a distinction between political art and just some random participating in public douchebaggery.cincybearcat said:
Well of course they aren't equivalent. One is just an idiot with a sign. The other was a thought out plan that basically threatens a sitting president with a beheading and hides behind "art". Not equivalent at all! I'm certain that's what you mean, because if you see it any other way then you are simply in denial.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
And yes, I find that not to be art at all. Just someone trying to hide behind art as the reason they can be a doucehbag.0 -
And I could follow up with video of Team Trump Treason saying "decent people on both sides." The head of the repub party can't even call out anti-semitism propagated by white nationalists that resulted in a death.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah, it's worse. The conservative is just a random woman with a sign, while the liberal is a celebrity showing off violent imagery. I guess if I went with Antifa protesters it would have been more equivalent. Or liberals pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court following the Kavanaugh confirmation.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Democrats are for crime.
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cincybearcat said:
Kathy was participating in some thought out public douchebaggery.PJ_Soul said:
Well he did say it was an equivalent, so you can't blame me for thinking that's what he meant. But, um, what?? You think an art piece is a threat?? I could not disagree with you more strongly on that. No, I'm not in denial, I am drawing a distinction between political art and just some random participating in public douchebaggery.cincybearcat said:
Well of course they aren't equivalent. One is just an idiot with a sign. The other was a thought out plan that basically threatens a sitting president with a beheading and hides behind "art". Not equivalent at all! I'm certain that's what you mean, because if you see it any other way then you are simply in denial.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
And yes, I find that not to be art at all. Just someone trying to hide behind art as the reason they can be a doucehbag.But it is art. There is no question about that, whether you like it or not. It's art by definition.As I said, I hate Kathy Griffin completely. But I think the distinction between some idiot woman with a sign like that on a public sidewalk is an important distinction. How one might feel about Griffin's photograph is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Someone doesn't understand tariffs.Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 061320180
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Jesus H. Christ.Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 061320180
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I totally agree and am surprised you feel the same way. Should I assume the base of the party worries you?mrussel1 said:
She won the popular, so the absence of the supers would not have changed the outcome. Democrats will rue the day that they gave up the SD's. It may be in 2020.BS44325 said:
Very true but no super delegates this time around. It will be very interesting. I think if Beto gets in it hurts Bernie which should clear the path for Biden.mrussel1 said:
I think he's helped by the large field, between NH/IA and into the deep primaries. It will be interesting when the field thins out and those are the two that are standing, plus maybe one more that is well financed. I agree that Bernie has more passionate supporters but I don't know if that means more supporters. Remember at the end of the day, Hillary garnered far more votes than him in the primary.BS44325 said:
I think Biden and Bernie are 1 and 2 out of name recognition at this early stage. My feeling is that Bernie has far more committed backers while Biden's support is softer and out of nostalgia. This is not a bad place to be for Biden but in a field this large he cannot lose his soft support to any of the other candidates. Bernie's support is strong and enduring and in a crowded field he will likely have the enthusiasm needed to come out on top.mrussel1 said:
So far Biden leads in Iowa and Michigan, two statewide polls that have been released. And both are after Bernie announced. Bernie is the 2nd. So while you may be right, current evidence doesn't support it. The worst case scenario for the Democrats is for this to be a battle between capitalism and socialism ideas. That's a loser every time. It must be a referendum on Trump.BS44325 said:
Biden will not get the support of his party. I had hopes for Hickenlooper but his answer on whether he is a capitalist was pathetic. It shows where the base is. I don't see how Biden pulls it out. It's Bernie's party now.mrussel1 said:
Haha, says the guy that sees him stealing Democratic votes. His campaign is dead. I think a lot of people yearn for the normalcy of Biden. I know I do. Let's set things back to square and then can implement some progressive ideas, like universal healthcare, but not breaking up tech companies because we don't like rich guys. It's interesting that Warren didn't single out Apple when they are much more active in mixing platform with product than Amazon.BS44325 said:
That's why it's time for Schultz-A-Mania!mrussel1 said:
You're talking about the echo chambers on both sides. I'm talking about winning the middle. I don't think one swing or disengaged voter cared about a tan suit. No one in their echo chambers is changing their mind.Halifax2TheMax said:
Yes, but my point being, the repubs will never get their house in order. Its too effective for them. Meanwhile, us libs will continue to have it shoved up our ass, all the while being told to be "more civil." Again, I'm more than happy to meet half way but I need to see movement on the right. The left moves all the time and tries to build bridges and coalitions and solicits cooperation. And what do we get for our efforts? More ridicule, demonization and denigration. The problem isn't biggest on, or with, the left. Were leftiies standing outside Obama's motorcade with signs ridiculing repubs/conservatives? Obama was ridiculed for wearing a tan suit by repub members of Congress. Remeber that?mrussel1 said:
Okay so you were supportive of fellow liberals holding her accountable because what she did was wrong, even though the Republican's house isn't in order? Or were you against condemning her because some lady has a sign outside Mar A Lago?Halifax2TheMax said:
I believe she was widely condemned by both sides, investigated by the Secret Service and has since been ostracized and blown away inot the dustbin of history. In fact, I don't even recall her name and haven't seen nor heard of her since. If that had been a Team Trump Treason supporter with Obama's head, she would have been made SOS or VP.Ledbetterman10 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Outside Mar-I-Lieo, courtesy of the NYT. Show me the dem/lib equivalent.
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Take a look at the economy.
Take a look at tax cuts.
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What makes it art and the lady holding the sign not art?PJ_Soul said:cincybearcat said:
Kathy was participating in some thought out public douchebaggery.PJ_Soul said:
Well he did say it was an equivalent, so you can't blame me for thinking that's what he meant. But, um, what?? You think an art piece is a threat?? I could not disagree with you more strongly on that. No, I'm not in denial, I am drawing a distinction between political art and just some random participating in public douchebaggery.cincybearcat said:
Well of course they aren't equivalent. One is just an idiot with a sign. The other was a thought out plan that basically threatens a sitting president with a beheading and hides behind "art". Not equivalent at all! I'm certain that's what you mean, because if you see it any other way then you are simply in denial.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
And yes, I find that not to be art at all. Just someone trying to hide behind art as the reason they can be a doucehbag.But it is art. There is no question about that, whether you like it or not. It's art by definition.As I said, I hate Kathy Griffin completely. But I think the distinction between some idiot woman with a sign like that on a public sidewalk is an important distinction. How one might feel about Griffin's photograph is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.hippiemom = goodness0 -
very fine people on both sides...Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah, it's worse. The conservative is just a random woman with a sign, while the liberal is a celebrity showing off violent imagery. I guess if I went with Antifa protesters it would have been more equivalent. Or liberals pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court following the Kavanaugh confirmation.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.0 -
mrussel1 said:
I think it stretches the definition of 'art', to be kind. If there was a sculpture of a priest molesting a child, is that art? They are both depictions of heinous crimes. I know I'm stirring it up with this one.cincybearcat said:
Kathy was participating in some thought out public douchebaggery.PJ_Soul said:
Well he did say it was an equivalent, so you can't blame me for thinking that's what he meant. But, um, what?? You think an art piece is a threat?? I could not disagree with you more strongly on that. No, I'm not in denial, I am drawing a distinction between political art and just some random participating in public douchebaggery.cincybearcat said:
Well of course they aren't equivalent. One is just an idiot with a sign. The other was a thought out plan that basically threatens a sitting president with a beheading and hides behind "art". Not equivalent at all! I'm certain that's what you mean, because if you see it any other way then you are simply in denial.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
And yes, I find that not to be art at all. Just someone trying to hide behind art as the reason they can be a doucehbag.Well yes, a sculpture is art. The palatability of art is not what defines it as art. Thank goodness. Do you know how many great works of art depict heinous crimes and other violent imagery? A LOT.And FWIW, I would frankly love it if some artist decided to create said sculpture and then leave it on the Pope's doorstep. Talk about a potent message.Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
To a degree, you posting her picture here and making her a subject of conversation maybe could be considered a backlash against her. She's not a public-figure so you've somewhat pulled her from the shadows and EXPOSED her for her evil "MAGA Zone" occupying ways. If I ever see her on the streets I'll shout at her to go home, this isn't MAGA country! I'll recognize her from you posting her picture.Halifax2TheMax said:
Did the woman holding the dumb repub sign suffer a backlash, ostracism, shouted down by her brethren? Shunning used to be popular.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah, it's worse. The conservative is just a random woman with a sign, while the liberal is a celebrity showing off violent imagery. I guess if I went with Antifa protesters it would have been more equivalent. Or liberals pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court following the Kavanaugh confirmation.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
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Whatever happened to that repub/con, “let the markets decide?”cincybearcat said:
Poor poor kathy...Halifax2TheMax said:
Did the woman holding the dumb repub sign suffer a backlash, ostracism, shouted down by her brethren? Shunning used to be popular.Ledbetterman10 said:
Yeah, it's worse. The conservative is just a random woman with a sign, while the liberal is a celebrity showing off violent imagery. I guess if I went with Antifa protesters it would have been more equivalent. Or liberals pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court following the Kavanaugh confirmation.PJ_Soul said:
Haha. Nope, definitely not your fault! Ledbetterman10, I don't think anything is confused. I'm simply saying that your liberal equivalent is not equivalent, IMO.Halifax2TheMax said:
Sure, it’s all my fault.Ledbetterman10 said:I think things are getting a little confusing here. Halifax posted a picture of a dumb conservative holding something, and asked for a liberal equivalent, so I posted a picture of a dumb liberal holding something. That's the only reason this picture of Griffin is here.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2018/06/01/kathy-griffins-comeback-tour-is-on-track-to-make-millions/#771dfa9f2cc9
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The far wing of every party concerns me. It's not a new concern. If you go back two years, you will see that I was very critical of Sanders. I am a moderate that leans left. I believe in capitalism, but I think it creates winners and losers, and the gov't needs to balance that out, without eliminating the incentive to be a winner. It's a delicate balancing act that needs to be re-calibrated. I don't think capitalism is "irredeemable" like AOC. And I certainly am not in favor of economic nationalism and tariffs.BS44325 said:
I totally agree and am surprised you feel the same way. Should I assume the base of the party worries you?mrussel1 said:
She won the popular, so the absence of the supers would not have changed the outcome. Democrats will rue the day that they gave up the SD's. It may be in 2020.BS44325 said:
Very true but no super delegates this time around. It will be very interesting. I think if Beto gets in it hurts Bernie which should clear the path for Biden.mrussel1 said:
I think he's helped by the large field, between NH/IA and into the deep primaries. It will be interesting when the field thins out and those are the two that are standing, plus maybe one more that is well financed. I agree that Bernie has more passionate supporters but I don't know if that means more supporters. Remember at the end of the day, Hillary garnered far more votes than him in the primary.BS44325 said:
I think Biden and Bernie are 1 and 2 out of name recognition at this early stage. My feeling is that Bernie has far more committed backers while Biden's support is softer and out of nostalgia. This is not a bad place to be for Biden but in a field this large he cannot lose his soft support to any of the other candidates. Bernie's support is strong and enduring and in a crowded field he will likely have the enthusiasm needed to come out on top.mrussel1 said:
So far Biden leads in Iowa and Michigan, two statewide polls that have been released. And both are after Bernie announced. Bernie is the 2nd. So while you may be right, current evidence doesn't support it. The worst case scenario for the Democrats is for this to be a battle between capitalism and socialism ideas. That's a loser every time. It must be a referendum on Trump.BS44325 said:
Biden will not get the support of his party. I had hopes for Hickenlooper but his answer on whether he is a capitalist was pathetic. It shows where the base is. I don't see how Biden pulls it out. It's Bernie's party now.mrussel1 said:
Haha, says the guy that sees him stealing Democratic votes. His campaign is dead. I think a lot of people yearn for the normalcy of Biden. I know I do. Let's set things back to square and then can implement some progressive ideas, like universal healthcare, but not breaking up tech companies because we don't like rich guys. It's interesting that Warren didn't single out Apple when they are much more active in mixing platform with product than Amazon.BS44325 said:
That's why it's time for Schultz-A-Mania!mrussel1 said:
You're talking about the echo chambers on both sides. I'm talking about winning the middle. I don't think one swing or disengaged voter cared about a tan suit. No one in their echo chambers is changing their mind.Halifax2TheMax said:
Yes, but my point being, the repubs will never get their house in order. Its too effective for them. Meanwhile, us libs will continue to have it shoved up our ass, all the while being told to be "more civil." Again, I'm more than happy to meet half way but I need to see movement on the right. The left moves all the time and tries to build bridges and coalitions and solicits cooperation. And what do we get for our efforts? More ridicule, demonization and denigration. The problem isn't biggest on, or with, the left. Were leftiies standing outside Obama's motorcade with signs ridiculing repubs/conservatives? Obama was ridiculed for wearing a tan suit by repub members of Congress. Remeber that?mrussel1 said:
Okay so you were supportive of fellow liberals holding her accountable because what she did was wrong, even though the Republican's house isn't in order? Or were you against condemning her because some lady has a sign outside Mar A Lago?Halifax2TheMax said:
I believe she was widely condemned by both sides, investigated by the Secret Service and has since been ostracized and blown away inot the dustbin of history. In fact, I don't even recall her name and haven't seen nor heard of her since. If that had been a Team Trump Treason supporter with Obama's head, she would have been made SOS or VP.Ledbetterman10 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Outside Mar-I-Lieo, courtesy of the NYT. Show me the dem/lib equivalent.
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