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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited January 2017

    You mean employers hire illegals? Why isn't this ever a part of the illegal immigration discussion?
    I often wonder this myself... go after the employers. I wonder why they never go after the businesses that hire illegals?? Hmm.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,434

    Yep, all the illegal immigrants come over to the USA and pay for health care and school 100% out of pocket.

    We have plenty of poor citizens that need help too and are overlooked.

    Yep, all the illegal immigrants come over to the USA and pay for health care and school 100% out of pocket.

    We have plenty of poor citizens that need help too and are overlooked.
    No need to get zippy. I was asking to see what info people had.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,202
    JC29856 said:

    I often wonder this myself... go after the employers. I wonder why they never go after the businesses that hire illegals?? Hmm.
    well it CAN'T be because those we elect to power practice this very thing, can it? NOOOOO, can't be! :smirk:
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,434
    I wonder how many illegals would be here if no one hired them?
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited January 2017

    well it CAN'T be because those we elect to power practice this very thing, can it? NOOOOO, can't be! :smirk:
    ah ha... "domestic workers"!
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,409
    JC29856 said:

    Except that $25billion earned USD are remitted back to Mexico annually.
    Well, that's a whole lot less that this wall is going to cost. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,409

    You mean employers hire illegals? Why isn't this ever a part of the illegal immigration discussion?
    They should lose their businesses. But illegals should also be given a way to work legally before they actually have status (under certain conditions, obviously). It's not like most workers want to be paid less than everyone else. If they could work legitimately, they probably would. The government needs to straighten this chicken/egg issue out.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,409
    JC29856 said:

    according to the report posted above, they pay in about $14 billion fed state and local, lets assume that the report underestimated the illegal immigrant "inflows" and add $7B to put the total at $21B, if they cost $34B then your still in the hole $13B.
    Is $13B an acceptable amount to subsidize illegal immigration?
    When you take their overall contribution to the US economy, absolutely. Especially considering that Trump's wall will cost many, many times that amount.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    JC29856 said:

    I often wonder this myself... go after the employers. I wonder why they never go after the businesses that hire illegals?? Hmm.
    I'm pretty sure this is addressed as part of Trump's immigration plan that someone posted a couple pages ago.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,409

    well it CAN'T be because those we elect to power practice this very thing, can it? NOOOOO, can't be! :smirk:
    Definitely not! :tongue: It's absolutely amazing to me that Trump voters just willfully ignore the concrete fact that Trump hiimself has purposefully employed illegal workers, lol. :dizzy:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Nationwide, unauthorized immigrants are clustered in a few occupations, notably farming, fishing and forestry (26 percent of the workforce), building and grounds (17 percent), and construction and mining (14 percent). They comprise 24 percent of all groundskeepers, 23 percent of domestic workers and 20 percent of those in clothing manufacture.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,409
    JC29856 said:

    Nationwide, unauthorized immigrants are clustered in a few occupations, notably farming, fishing and forestry (26 percent of the workforce), building and grounds (17 percent), and construction and mining (14 percent). They comprise 24 percent of all groundskeepers, 23 percent of domestic workers and 20 percent of those in clothing manufacture.

    Wouldn't it be horrible if all those workers suddenly disappeared? There aren't anywhere near enough Americans willing to fill them.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JC29856 said:

    here is a nice summary
    http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers

    lets for the sake of argument assume that the report is 70% inaccurate or over-estimated....is $34 billion illegal immigration annual costs acceptable?
    Your summary comes from FAIR. This is a group whose leaders work with white supremacy groups and whose founder expressed wishes that america remain a majority white nation. I suggest you get your information elsewhere.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,434
    PJPOWER said:

    I'm pretty sure this is addressed as part of Trump's immigration plan that someone posted a couple pages ago.
    I don't remember seeing that. Maybe the 5,000 new federal employees could focus on businesses who hire illegals? I'm sure that's his plan!
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    this man is an embarrassment. By that I mean he is embarrassed about his tiny tiny hands

    Trump has picture hanging in the white house photoshopped to make his hand bigger
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    PJ_Soul said:

    Definitely not! :tongue: It's absolutely amazing to me that Trump voters just willfully ignore the concrete fact that Trump hiimself has purposefully employed illegal workers, lol. :dizzy:
    Ive heard this argument before and I guess you could argue hypocrisy but for profit businesses are for profit, government not so much.
    If a requirement for being president was that you could have never hired an illegal immigrant then most couldn't become president.
    Presidential Application Questions
    Who cleans your homes? US citizen?
    Who cuts your lawns? US citizen?
    Who cleans your pools? US citizen?

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    Your summary comes from FAIR. This is a group whose leaders work with white supremacy groups and whose founder expressed wishes that america remain a majority white nation. I suggest you get your information elsewhere.
    Ive already factored in the white supremacist margin of error of 70%? I thought I was being generous at 70%. You have any other data that may have a smaller margin of error?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,202
    PJ_Soul said:

    Wouldn't it be horrible if all those workers suddenly disappeared? There aren't anywhere near enough Americans willing to fill them.
    this was going to be my next point. the economy will grind to a halt, if not ignite a monster recession. the main reason all these illegals are employed in the first place is because it is simply not worth it for americans to work those jobs for the wages they pay. if these employers are forced to pay wages that are along legal guidelines, either prices skyrocket, or the business cease to operate; probably both. either way, everyday americans simply will not be able to afford the new prices on housing, clothing, etc, etc. how is trump going to deal with this?

    probably blame obama.
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499

    I don't remember seeing that. Maybe the 5,000 new federal employees could focus on businesses who hire illegals? I'm sure that's his plan!


    "9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants."
    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration/
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited January 2017

    this was going to be my next point. the economy will grind to a halt, if not ignite a monster recession. the main reason all these illegals are employed in the first place is because it is simply not worth it for americans to work those jobs for the wages they pay. if these employers are forced to pay wages that are along legal guidelines, either prices skyrocket, or the business cease to operate; probably both. either way, everyday americans simply will not be able to afford the new prices on housing, clothing, etc, etc. how is trump going to deal with this?

    probably blame obama.
    one sided argument ignoring the hire paying wage effect
    or maybe the economy will become buoyant, with real wage increases...were all better off when were all better off.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,858

    this was going to be my next point. the economy will grind to a halt, if not ignite a monster recession. the main reason all these illegals are employed in the first place is because it is simply not worth it for americans to work those jobs for the wages they pay. if these employers are forced to pay wages that are along legal guidelines, either prices skyrocket, or the business cease to operate; probably both. either way, everyday americans simply will not be able to afford the new prices on housing, clothing, etc, etc. how is trump going to deal with this?

    probably blame obama.
    and he wants to pay for the wall with a 20% import tax from Mexico. Mexico is the 3rd largest exporter of goods coming into the USA. this would be an utter disaster for the economy. just an idiotic plan.
  • MeanMr.MustardMeanMr.Mustard TBA Posts: 127
    edited January 2017
    PJ_Soul said:

    I dunno, since they also pay taxes. The fact is, illegal immigrants ultimately help the US economy, and getting rid of them would be absolutely disastrous for the US economy. Funny how that never seems to be a topic of conversation.
    do any of you know how much money is sent across the border to mexico by these workers you are talking about ? I think about $20billion a year....can't clearly remember(that's a lot of money sucked out of a struggling economy), but that tax comment made ? there are thousands of tax paying illegals that use false I.D's and commit identification theft so it's really hard to for me to agree with anything promoting illegal immigration.

    Post edited by MeanMr.Mustard on
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    pjhawks said:

    and he wants to pay for the wall with a 20% import tax from Mexico. Mexico is the 3rd largest exporter of goods coming into the USA. this would be an utter disaster for the economy. just an idiotic plan.
    I think that was 1 idea...but go on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,858
    edited January 2017
    JC29856 said:

    I think that was 1 idea...but go on
    well idea #1 was Mexico was going to pay for it but that ain't happening. this was the 2nd idea. think he has any better ideas on how to fund this without fucking the average american?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,202
    JC29856 said:

    one sided argument ignoring the hire paying wage effect
    or maybe the economy will become buoyant, with real wage increases...were all better off when were all better off.
    I'm not trying to be one-sided. can you explain what you mean?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,202
    pjhawks said:

    and he wants to pay for the wall with a 20% import tax from Mexico. Mexico is the 3rd largest exporter of goods coming into the USA. this would be an utter disaster for the economy. just an idiotic plan.
    yeah, I laughed when I saw that. if his supporters are ok with that, well, what more can be said?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499

    yeah, I laughed when I saw that. if his supporters are ok with that, well, what more can be said?
    At this point it all seems like a big game of chicken...We'll see who can hold out the longest.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/

    Here is some nice charts on wages.
  • MeanMr.MustardMeanMr.Mustard TBA Posts: 127
    if mexico is the 3rd largest importer of good into the us then why are millions of Mexican citizens sneaking into the US ? maybe if we shut the door Mexico's government will be forced to take care of their own people.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,858

    if mexico is the 3rd largest importer of good into the us then why are millions of Mexican citizens sneaking into the US ? maybe if we shut the door Mexico's government will be forced to take care of their own people.

    it's not an 'IF' question. they are the 3rd largest. that is a fact. here is what we import from Mexico and the amounts

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-does-the-u-s-import-from-mexico-a-whole-lot/
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