And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.
I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.
Let's back up because I know not everyone has a stellar memory. Yesterday, H2m asked for the visa ban law that Obama signed, as if one didn't exist or as if he is ignorant to the fact that one existed. I kindly provide the law directly from .gov. Today H2M wakes up after late night peek-a-boo, makes his lemon water and Manuka honey drink, sits at his computer, checks the Trump thread, reads benjs posts, thinks it's a good idea, takes it to heart, then proceeds attempt to implement said benjs strategy. H2M then proceeds for the next 3 hours to study the law I posted composes his retort and comes up with this:
It's not "Obamas law" even thou nobody referred to it as "Obamas law" ignoring that the president has to sign bills in order for it to become law. Obama signed it, no veto, sign and drive. Then he further tries to dissociate Obama from his signature on the visa ban law by claiming, it was 1. part of a larger more important bill package that needed to be passed 2. originated in the house / senate, furthermore noting that the house and Senate were opposition party republicans.
My question, if this was so un American to Obama, couldn't he issue an executive order doing away with the visa ban instead of having his DHS enforce it?
H2M failed to mention the 4 month Iraqi ban Obama also implemented in 2011.
Cheers...TAILTUCK
Do you support the current Muslim/refugee/immigration ban?
Do you support the propsed wall & deportations?
One word yes or no answers, please
I wouldn't call it a Muslim ban..see previous post a few pages back. I have no problem with a temporary ban issued by a new administration, in order for it them to work thru a more permanent solution whatever it may be, extreme vetting etc. I do have a problem with trumps implemention and preparedness dealing with those en route or within 72 hours of travel. I'm am totally against ILLEGAL immigration. I have no problem with a proposed wall, it worked for Israel and we paid for that one so why not. Without knowing the details I can only say I'm not against a wall. I'll reserve judgement on the wall until I know the particulars. I'm all for the continuance of Obamas record breaking deportations of ILLEGAL immigrants. Trust the process.
So that is a yes, yes, and yes. I appreciate you taking a clear cut position.
But, you clearly told me in the Podesta emails thread that you were voting for Jill Stein??? I'm having a really hard time believing a Jill Stein voter would support those positions???
So which time you were lying, then or now?
Whatever you say You missed my post where I vote pact'd, I'll be glad to find it for you. Keep trying.... The cheerleaders in here are taking on the role of the media with their failed gotcha attempts.
You're the one that said you were voting for Jill Stein my friend.
But you support the ban, wall, and deportation EO's? A Jill Stein voter? lol
What is "vote pact'd"? I honestly don't know
Do you believe in climate change? And if so, is it being caused by human activity?
You never heard of vote pact...how about Google? Ever hear of them? I've already explained my climate change position. I have enough stalkers on here, if you want to join the club, please direct your membership questions to club president H2M. Memberships are limited, prices and participation varies. If you are denied membership pm me I'll send you my snapchat. We'll revisit Tuesday...GMOs are a callin!
I have some doubts to it's authenticity and being linked to the White House. I'm assuming a right wing group is using this as a front to building their phone listing come election season. Disgusting.
Maybe this will brighten your mood JC. Stand with us comrade.
Outrage over Trump's immigrant ban helps ACLU raise more money online in one day than in all of 2016
The ACLU said it has received roughly 290,000 online donations totaling $19.4 million since Saturday morning. The non-profit organization that aims to protect individuals' rights and liberties guaranteed in the Constitution typically raises about $4 million online in a year, according to Executive Director Anthony Romero.
Maybe this will brighten your mood JC. Stand with us comrade.
Outrage over Trump's immigrant ban helps ACLU raise more money online in one day than in all of 2016
The ACLU said it has received roughly 290,000 online donations totaling $19.4 million since Saturday morning. The non-profit organization that aims to protect individuals' rights and liberties guaranteed in the Constitution typically raises about $4 million online in a year, according to Executive Director Anthony Romero.
Thanks dignin! I ran across it randomly on instagram earlier today and have been looking for it for the past 30 minutes with no luck. Yes, this is the one.
Thanks dignin! I ran across it randomly on instagram earlier today and have been looking for it for the past 30 minutes with no luck. Yes, this is the one.
ya see, this how a dum yokle lyke me fales to here the payed for and aprofed by Donald trump at the end. yuk, yuk fake news
Thanks dignin! I ran across it randomly on instagram earlier today and have been looking for it for the past 30 minutes with no luck. Yes, this is the one.
Anytime, I had to google the number in the ad to finally find it.
Thanks dignin! I ran across it randomly on instagram earlier today and have been looking for it for the past 30 minutes with no luck. Yes, this is the one.
ya see, this how a dum yokle lyke me fales to here the payed for and aprofed by Donald trump at the end. yuk, yuk fake news
Found on a bulletin board where one of its users called the number and tested it:
I rang from my Skype (which is a blocked number) and pressed 1, it is a message from Sen Ted Harvey who identifies himself as the chairman of the committee to defend Trump. Goes through the standard propaganda spiel including the liberals and the crooked media, basically an echo of the ad, and then asks you to press 1 to make a donation or press 2 if you don't wish to make a donation. I pressed 2 and it tried to convince me that even a modest donation would help. I hung up after that.
I googled Ted Harvey and the 2nd google result is an article on Breitbart from May of last year about his stop Hillary PAC.
And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.
I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.
Let's back up because I know not everyone has a stellar memory. Yesterday, H2m asked for the visa ban law that Obama signed, as if one didn't exist or as if he is ignorant to the fact that one existed. I kindly provide the law directly from .gov. Today H2M wakes up after late night peek-a-boo, makes his lemon water and Manuka honey drink, sits at his computer, checks the Trump thread, reads benjs posts, thinks it's a good idea, takes it to heart, then proceeds attempt to implement said benjs strategy. H2M then proceeds for the next 3 hours to study the law I posted composes his retort and comes up with this:
It's not "Obamas law" even thou nobody referred to it as "Obamas law" ignoring that the president has to sign bills in order for it to become law. Obama signed it, no veto, sign and drive. Then he further tries to dissociate Obama from his signature on the visa ban law by claiming, it was 1. part of a larger more important bill package that needed to be passed 2. originated in the house / senate, furthermore noting that the house and Senate were opposition party republicans.
My question, if this was so un American to Obama, couldn't he issue an executive order doing away with the visa ban instead of having his DHS enforce it?
H2M failed to mention the 4 month Iraqi ban Obama also implemented in 2011.
Cheers...TAILTUCK
Do you support the current Muslim/refugee/immigration ban?
Do you support the propsed wall & deportations?
One word yes or no answers, please
I wouldn't call it a Muslim ban..see previous post a few pages back. I have no problem with a temporary ban issued by a new administration, in order for it them to work thru a more permanent solution whatever it may be, extreme vetting etc. I do have a problem with trumps implemention and preparedness dealing with those en route or within 72 hours of travel. I'm am totally against ILLEGAL immigration. I have no problem with a proposed wall, it worked for Israel and we paid for that one so why not. Without knowing the details I can only say I'm not against a wall. I'll reserve judgement on the wall until I know the particulars. I'm all for the continuance of Obamas record breaking deportations of ILLEGAL immigrants. Trust the process.
So that is a yes, yes, and yes. I appreciate you taking a clear cut position.
But, you clearly told me in the Podesta emails thread that you were voting for Jill Stein??? I'm having a really hard time believing a Jill Stein voter would support those positions???
So which time you were lying, then or now?
Whatever you say You missed my post where I vote pact'd, I'll be glad to find it for you. Keep trying.... The cheerleaders in here are taking on the role of the media with their failed gotcha attempts.
You're the one that said you were voting for Jill Stein my friend.
But you support the ban, wall, and deportation EO's? A Jill Stein voter? lol
What is "vote pact'd"? I honestly don't know
Do you believe in climate change? And if so, is it being caused by human activity?
You never heard of vote pact...how about Google? Ever hear of them? I've already explained my climate change position. I have enough stalkers on here, if you want to join the club, please direct your membership questions to club president H2M. Memberships are limited, prices and participation varies. If you are denied membership pm me I'll send you my snapchat. We'll revisit Tuesday...GMOs are a callin!
Benjs? Got a lecture?
I said my piece before, and while it was in direct response to what you had written, I've got no desire to beat a dead horse on sharing effective strategies to debate based on logic rather than emotion - strategies which I didn't make up, by the way.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This egomaniac now has a fucking phone-in hotline to pledge your support for him. What in actual fuck??!! Name me one other sitting President that has ever done that!! Again, biggest snowflake of them all.
He is really behind the times. Hotlines are so 80s and early 90s. I knew Trump was dumb and out of touch but wow!
Oh but his followers will most definitely still call in. Gotta fall in line with Mein Drumpf.
Well their idea of Hollywood stars is outdated with their love for Scott Baio and Kirk Cameron. Why stop at celebs?
This egomaniac now has a fucking phone-in hotline to pledge your support for him. What in actual fuck??!! Name me one other sitting President that has ever done that!! Again, biggest snowflake of them all.
It won't last, people will be trolling it bigly in no time!
Latest tweet folks. (and for those that can't access facebook right now here it is) Statement Regarding Recent Executive Order Concerning Extreme Vetting “America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion to those fleeing oppression, but we will do so while protecting our own citizens and border. America has always been the land of the free and home of the brave. We will keep it free and keep it safe, as the media knows, but refuses to say. My policy is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of terror. To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over 40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by this order. We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days. I have tremendous feeling for the people involved in this horrific humanitarian crisis in Syria. My first priority will always be to protect and serve our country, but as President I will find ways to help all those who are suffering.” https://facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158567643610725
The takeaway from this, "I still having a raging hard on to try and flip, take down or obliterate anything Obama related." He's not doing anything for the safety or best interests of the country, he's doing it for revenge. Ever since Obama burned him at that dinner several years ago. That whole post is Breitbart spun vile made to push blame and deflect on to someone no longer in office.
It will probably be hell for the whole country, but this megalomaniac's undoing is going to be the biggest blow out we've ever seen.
Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate, Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate, Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate,
Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate, Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate, Love trumps hate, love trumps hate, love trumps hate,
If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant...
Gaping seeping wounds = comparison to Jesus? I'm not buying it, maybe if she said were being nailed to the cross, but not gaping seeping wounds. File this under...nah not quite
"Today I am deeply saddened by the news of the executive order banning immigration. This is not the country he dreamed of, not what he served for and not what he died for."
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
"Today I am deeply saddened by the news of the executive order banning immigration. This is not the country he dreamed of, not what he served for and not what he died for."
I'm glad she is finally speaking out...
He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire in a communication fuster cluck in a valley in Afghanistan. He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire so those people that sent him to war could stone wall an investigation into his death, lie about the circumstances of his death and tell his family how terrible they feel about his death. He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire so that the government can use his likeness and death as a marketing and armed forces recruitment tool either. I guess I'll stop there...
Mary Tillman believes she has evidence that the Army went to extraordinary lengths to keep what really happened under wraps. She points to the fact that Pat's uniform, which according to one soldier had the marks left by American bullets, was burned, which is against Army procedure.
Then there was the coroner, who'd refused to sign the autopsy for months because when he examined the body, he said the gunshot wounds were not consistent with the Army's original story. And remember the citation on the Silver Star which left the distinct impression Pat was killed by enemy fire? It was later revealed that the eyewitness statements had been altered. Army Ranger Bryan O'Neal testified before Congress last spring.
"Did you write these sentences, claiming that you were engaged with the enemy?" he was asked.
"No sir," O'Neal replied.
"Their testimony was altered by someone to make it appear as though Pat was killed by the enemy," Mary Tillman claims.
But she says she hasn't figured out who changed the statements or how.
Some years ago, Mr Trump invited me to lunch for a one-to-one meeting at his apartment in Manhattan. We had not met before and I accepted. Even before the starters arrived he began telling me about how he had asked a number of people for help after his latest bankruptcy and how five of them were unwilling to help. He told me he was going to spend the rest of his life destroying these five people.
Gaping seeping wounds = comparison to Jesus? I'm not buying it, maybe if she said were being nailed to the cross, but not gaping seeping wounds. File this under...nah not quite
Yeah, I thought the comparison was quite a stretch. Very misleading headline.
Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.
Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds
1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions. 2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth. 3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias. 4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.
I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.
I realize you are trying to help, and that's good but I don't think you have been paying attention. You are missing more than half of the equation.
I personally appreciate Halifax for calling out the bullshit when he sees it. I have learned a lot.
I'm all for calling out bullshit, but first you have to qualify whether the person you're talking to has malicious intent and is trying to dispel bullshit, or whether they believe what they are saying. If they believe it, they are simply stating their case the way you or I do. If this is the case, equating them to people of questionable character or intellect is just not called for. If they don't believe it, why not just present the ill logic their statements are predicated upon?
In either case, as soon as emotions come into play, you've given a valid opportunity to the person you're debating with to just deflect by accurately pointing out that you are resorting to fallacious attacks. In no way, shape or form have I proposed not calling out bullshit. I've simply said that there's a right way and a wrong way to do so.
I put in bold this part of your response because it gets to the heart of the matter.
The poster who Halifax was responding to clearly is trying to spread misinformation and just plain bullshit. Many on this forum have pointed it out. When called out said poster moves on to more bullshit. Always a moving target and always trying to confuse and muddy the waters. A tactic learned, I can only assume, from Trump himself.
I agree it would be best if we could leave most emotion out of it for a more clear picture and better debate, but then this place would be boring if it was all gone. It's the passion I see here, and the new information I learn, that keeps me coming back. Emotion and passion can lead to an invigorating debate.
I really don't agree. I'm confident that BS believes what he writes here, and I say that as someone who disagrees with much of what he posts.
Whoosh. Not talking about BS. Thought that was clear.
Dignin, I apologize as this wasn't clear to me, I made a mistake clearly. Thought I was being attentive to the micro-thread but I'll try to do better next time
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Hey America, awesome move. 1.5 million of you killed by guns since 1968 versus 5 killed by refugees, but you guys ban.....refugees!
It's probably the student visa holders that should really be looked at... https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis "Terrorists on student visas appear especially deadly because one of them was a 9/11 hijacker. Altogether, students caused 158.5 fatalities, or one for every 152,534 students admitted.45 The human cost of terrorism caused by foreigners on student visas was thus $2.38 billion, equal to 5.23 percent of all the terrorism costs to human life. The average terrorism cost per student visa issued is $98.34.
Excluding 9/11, 18 terrorists entered the United States as students, or one entry for every 1.34 million student visas issued. Those 18 committed a total of 1.5 murders that cost $22.5 million or $0.93 per student visa issued."
Comments
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Koch brothers: for every dollar the aclu raises against Trump we pledge 400 to Trump!
Outrage over Trump's immigrant ban helps ACLU raise more money online in one day than in all of 2016
The ACLU said it has received roughly 290,000 online donations totaling $19.4 million since Saturday morning. The non-profit organization that aims to protect individuals' rights and liberties guaranteed in the Constitution typically raises about $4 million online in a year, according to Executive Director Anthony Romero.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/01/29/aclu-fundraising-records-muslim-immigrant-ban/97218098/
this how a dum yokle lyke me fales to here the payed for and aprofed by Donald trump at the end.
yuk, yuk
fake news
I googled Ted Harvey and the 2nd google result is an article on Breitbart from May of last year about his stop Hillary PAC.
Where the fuck is this money going??
Link to bulletin board post.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It will probably be hell for the whole country, but this megalomaniac's undoing is going to be the biggest blow out we've ever seen.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Are you ok man?
Quebec is not Canada.
Hey America, awesome move. 1.5 million of you killed by guns since 1968 versus 5 killed by refugees, but you guys ban.....refugees!
If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant, If you don't tolerate my intolerance you're intolerant...
I'm not buying it, maybe if she said were being nailed to the cross, but not gaping seeping wounds.
File this under...nah not quite
"In 2002 my husband enlisted in the US Army, he stood up to serve because he believed in the (principles) on which are country was founded and, recognizing it wasn't perfect, was passionate about what it could be" she wrote.
"Today I am deeply saddened by the news of the executive order banning immigration. This is not the country he dreamed of, not what he served for and not what he died for."
He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire in a communication fuster cluck in a valley in Afghanistan.
He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire so those people that sent him to war could stone wall an investigation into his death, lie about the circumstances of his death and tell his family how terrible they feel about his death.
He probably didn't serve to get killed by friendly fire so that the government can use his likeness and death as a marketing and armed forces recruitment tool either.
I guess I'll stop there...
Mary Tillman believes she has evidence that the Army went to extraordinary lengths to keep what really happened under wraps. She points to the fact that Pat's uniform, which according to one soldier had the marks left by American bullets, was burned, which is against Army procedure.
Then there was the coroner, who'd refused to sign the autopsy for months because when he examined the body, he said the gunshot wounds were not consistent with the Army's original story. And remember the citation on the Silver Star which left the distinct impression Pat was killed by enemy fire? It was later revealed that the eyewitness statements had been altered. Army Ranger Bryan O'Neal testified before Congress last spring.
"Did you write these sentences, claiming that you were engaged with the enemy?" he was asked.
"No sir," O'Neal replied.
"Their testimony was altered by someone to make it appear as though Pat was killed by the enemy," Mary Tillman claims.
But she says she hasn't figured out who changed the statements or how.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-really-happened-to-pat-tillman/
https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/meeting-donald-trump
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration-risk-analysis
"Terrorists on student visas appear especially deadly because one of them was a 9/11 hijacker. Altogether, students caused 158.5 fatalities, or one for every 152,534 students admitted.45 The human cost of terrorism caused by foreigners on student visas was thus $2.38 billion, equal to 5.23 percent of all the terrorism costs to human life. The average terrorism cost per student visa issued is $98.34.
Excluding 9/11, 18 terrorists entered the United States as students, or one entry for every 1.34 million student visas issued. Those 18 committed a total of 1.5 murders that cost $22.5 million or $0.93 per student visa issued." Wow, didn't realize it was okay to use the c*** word here now. I need to go back and insert it into all of my Hillary posts!