Hillary won more votes for President

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Comments

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Dirtie_Frank said:

    Here it is again:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

    (f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    Did any of that occur?
    Point 1 and 2 occured
    How? And please, be specific.
    1) knowingly set up an unsecured email system (less security then gmail according to Comey) and knowingly sent/received classified information to other through this system. This breaches "the proper place" aspect of the statute. In addition information was transmitted on unsecure mobile devices within foreign countries to individuals who's security had already been compromised by foreign agencies of those countries (again according to Comey). Email correspondence between Clinton staffers and her IT specialist reveal periodic attempted hacking of their server to the point of multiple requires server shutdowns. Even following these shutdowns the unsecured servers continued to be used.

    2)There was intent and knowledge to operate a separate server which allowed classified emails to exist outside their "proper place" for the purpose of avoiding transparency system. As per the above hacking incidents there was also knowledge that the system they were using was not secure. They refused and/or failed to change their behaviour even with this knowledge. They also knowingly. allowed for destruction of information not properly catalogued as per Comey's description of Hillary's lawyers deleting messages through the reading of headers only.
    Your bias shines through in the statement. There is no evidence that she knowingly passed classified information. That's one assumption that you could not know. Second, in your second diatribe, you say she did it to avoid transparency. You have no way of knowing that either. Those accusations must be true for your conclusions to be accurate, but alas its only conjecture.

    Edit - removed my dickish ending. I think I did not get enough sleep. Should probably sign off the Train for the night...
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Dirtie_Frank said:

    Here it is again:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

    (f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    Did any of that occur?
    Point 1 and 2 occured
    How? And please, be specific.
    1) knowingly set up an unsecured email system (less security then gmail according to Comey) and knowingly sent/received classified information to other through this system. This breaches "the proper place" aspect of the statute. In addition information was transmitted on unsecure mobile devices within foreign countries to individuals who's security had already been compromised by foreign agencies of those countries (again according to Comey). Email correspondence between Clinton staffers and her IT specialist reveal periodic attempted hacking of their server to the point of multiple requires server shutdowns. Even following these shutdowns the unsecured servers continued to be used.

    2)There was intent and knowledge to operate a separate server which allowed classified emails to exist outside their "proper place" for the purpose of avoiding transparency system. As per the above hacking incidents there was also knowledge that the system they were using was not secure. They refused and/or failed to change their behaviour even with this knowledge. They also knowingly. allowed for destruction of information not properly catalogued as per Comey's description of Hillary's lawyers deleting messages through the reading of headers only.
    Your bias shines through in the statement. There is no evidence that she knowingly passed classified information. That's one assumption that you could not know. Second, in your second diatribe, you say she did it to avoid transparency. You have no way of knowing that either. Those accusations must be true for your conclusions to be accurate, but alas its only conjecture.

    Thanks for your amateur FBI starter kit analysis, but it is unconvincing at many levels.
    As stated by Comey it is a fact that she both sent and received classified information. You want to parse the word "knowingly" when even he states that someone in her position "ought to have known". I assume your claim is that Hillary is just too stupid to know and yet she should be commander in chief.

    Second...All her reasons for creating this system of emails as per the video posted above have been proven to be a lie. Emails have been released between Clinton and her staff outlining that the system was designed to avoid "the personal" from being read. She and her lawyers, as per Comey, then decided what was personal based on "headers only" and deleted what they wanted. Some of these were inaccessible to investigators. That is not transparency.

    All fact.
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Dirtie_Frank said:

    Here it is again:

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

    (f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    Did any of that occur?
    Point 1 and 2 occured
    How? And please, be specific.
    1) knowingly set up an unsecured email system (less security then gmail according to Comey) and knowingly sent/received classified information to other through this system. This breaches "the proper place" aspect of the statute. In addition information was transmitted on unsecure mobile devices within foreign countries to individuals who's security had already been compromised by foreign agencies of those countries (again according to Comey). Email correspondence between Clinton staffers and her IT specialist reveal periodic attempted hacking of their server to the point of multiple requires server shutdowns. Even following these shutdowns the unsecured servers continued to be used.

    2)There was intent and knowledge to operate a separate server which allowed classified emails to exist outside their "proper place" for the purpose of avoiding transparency system. As per the above hacking incidents there was also knowledge that the system they were using was not secure. They refused and/or failed to change their behaviour even with this knowledge. They also knowingly. allowed for destruction of information not properly catalogued as per Comey's description of Hillary's lawyers deleting messages through the reading of headers only.
    First, there was no evidence of her server being hacked. If I'm not mistaken, it was the position of the FBI that her emails could have been hacked.

    It's in its proper place. It's coming and going from people with the proper clearance. Had any classified information ever not been in its proper place, im sure Comer would have stated such information.
    State.gov is "proper place". An unsecured private system is not "proper place". Comey outlined with detail how poor the security was. He also outlined how classified information was shared on mobile in foreign countries that were known to hack American agents. He also stated how classified information was shared with American agents who were already compromised through hacking. Lastly, not discussed by Comey but as a matter of public record, it is known from released emails that there were multiple hack "attempts" of Hillary's server. These "attempts" resulted in multiple shutdowns of the server by the lone IT tech. It is not known whether these attempts or others were ever "successful" but either way use of the server continued following these attacks. That is gross negligence before the hack attempts and certainly after where Hillary was required to alert her superior. Conveniently she was her own superior.
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    As Degenerate is saying, you are completely missing the point of intent.
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
    That guy in the article posted knowingly moved classified material to his computer. He then deleted the information. How is that the same? What classified information did Clinton delete?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    when nobama publicly supported Hell'ary it locked in her safety from prosecution.....they both need to be arrested.

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    Godfather. said:

    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. You really are living in a dream world.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
    That guy in the article posted knowingly moved classified material to his computer. He then deleted the information. How is that the same? What classified information did Clinton delete?
    Part one of the case which is storing and transmission is exactly the same whereas only the "deletion" aspect of the case "might" be different. I say "might" because Comey's statement touches upon deletion but doesn't cover the classification level of what was deleted. That being said we know 30,000 plus emails were deleted. They were deleted via keyword and heading search by Clinton's lawyers without even being read. Most of these could not be recovered by Comey's investigators. There was no archiving system in place. So what you are asking the layperson to believe is that a system confirmed to contain classified information was not used for the deletion of other classified material. Highly unlikely. Also the naval reservist plead guilty and volunteered information of deletion whereas Clinton is admitting to nothing and so what was deleted can never be known. The only difference between the two cases then is that a reservist faced with serious charges entered into a plea which as you know is always conditional on a full disclosure of wrong doing. Admitting to deletion was part of this disclosure of wrong doing. Either way it does not matter when comparing the cases as the "deletion" component is only one aspect of why the naval reservist was charged.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
    Why is it that you think you have so much more information than the FBI? Here is Comey's statement addressing this very issue:

    In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Degeneratefk said:

    Godfather. said:

    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. You really are living in a dream world.
    wouldn't be funny if Trump won......the fact that anybody would vote for that criminal is beyond me but hay to each their own right ?

    and what is your dream world ?

    Godfather.

  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    There may not be enough information collected to suggest criminal charges, but the kind of negligence and misconduct stated by Comey would get any other person FIRED from their job. Whether or not she is intentionally a criminal or not, she most definitely displayed unethical behavior and potentially put our nation's security at risk. Comey stated,(paraphrased), "Any reasonable person in Clinton's position should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation"... Most definitely sounds like she was not a reasonable person for that position, let alone the president of the United States...
    Here's another refresher course:
    https://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,189
    Godfather. said:

    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.

    LOL....turn off Faux News....it's rotting your brain
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,189
    Godfather. said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Godfather. said:

    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. You really are living in a dream world.
    wouldn't be funny if Trump won......the fact that anybody would vote for that criminal is beyond me but hay to each their own right ?

    and what is your dream world ?

    Godfather.

    Funny how you refer to Hillary as the criminal when she has not been indicted for anything.

    Yet...somehow you ignore Trump's bankruptcies and ALL of the lawsuits related to Trump University. I understand that those lawsuits haven't been decided yet but to ignore them is really ignorant.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    Being negligent and careless is in some ways worse than being malicious.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,420
    Gern Blansten said:

    Godfather. said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Godfather. said:

    well boys and girls are you ready for TrumpNation ? I have a feeling that Hell'ary may not go to jail but the damage to her reputation as a political figure may be to damning to recover from...I hope !
    every news station I'm reading or watching is really in disbelief.

    Godfather.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. You really are living in a dream world.
    wouldn't be funny if Trump won......the fact that anybody would vote for that criminal is beyond me but hay to each their own right ?

    and what is your dream world ?

    Godfather.

    Funny how you refer to Hillary as the criminal when she has not been indicted for anything.

    Yet...somehow you ignore Trump's bankruptcies and ALL of the lawsuits related to Trump University. I understand that those lawsuits haven't been decided yet but to ignore them is really ignorant.
    trump supporters specialize in fear, hate, and ignorance
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    BS44325 said:

    Folsom Naval Rerservist charged and sentenced:

    https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

    And apparently intent didn't matter

    Second paragraph from the bottom:

    "The investigation did not reveal evidence that Nishimura intended to distribute classified information to unauthorized personnel."

    Once again laws are for the little people.

    This has nothing to do with Clinton's case. This guy knowingly moved classified information from a authorized computer to a computer that was not authorized by the US government. Why can't you see the difference here?
    As per the Inspector Generals' report Clinton's server was not authorized by the US government nor were her mobile devices authorized for the purposes of sending or receiving classified information. Someone moved information to these unauthorized systems and she then knowingly participated in further dissemination. This "guy" unintentionally moved information to his unauthorized mobile device and later destroyed some of this information. The crime is the same.
    Why is it that you think you have so much more information than the FBI? Here is Comey's statement addressing this very issue:

    In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

    https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
    I don't claim to know more but the statement you highlighted has already been shown to be false and if you spend anytime watching and/or reading the news today you will see that many lawyers and former justice department officials tend to agree with me. Comey was up against a justice department and administration that was never going to indict but his unprecedented statement of facts completely indicted her character.

    Also here is the definiton of negligence for you:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negligence

    As you can see it involves a lack of "care"

    Extreme carelessness and gross negligence are really one and the same.
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