More Sad News From Orlando......

PJ_Soul · June 2016

g under p said:
Disneyworld was crawling with gators....see for yourself

http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/disney-world-is-crawling-with-alliggators-see-for-yourself/

Peace

If Disneyworld knew that and just left the gators without adding adequate signage and warnings, they should be sued. I think Disney was really irresponsible here.

Gern Blansten · June 2016

It's so tragic. They were on Disney property...you can't reasonably be expected to be attacked by a wild animal within a vacation resort.

What price do you put on torment? The parents will deal with this every day for the rest of their lives. There will not be a day that they don't think about it.

g under p · June 2016

Gern Blansten said:
It's so tragic. They were on Disney property...you can't reasonably be expected to be attacked by a wild animal within a vacation resort.

What price do you put on torment? The parents will deal with this every day for the rest of their lives. There will not be a day that they don't think about it.

Agreed, no amount of money will EVAH erase the memory of this family's loss.

Peace

FoxyRedLa · June 2016

I agree w/they will punish themselves.

If it were me - I hate to even type that - I would assume full responsibility for my child.

I do also agree with who would expect gators at a resort...? But..what about I don't know other areas that have deadly scorpions or bugs or whatever.

It just fucking sucks.

g under p · June 2016

According to Florida's premises liability law, a property owner is responsible for keeping property in a safe condition and for warning its "invitee", or someone welcomed onto the property, of concealed dangers that are known to owners.
The owner is also responsible if a child who has trespassed is harmed by an "attractive nuisance" on the property. An "attractive nuisance" is defined as an artificial item, such as a swimming pool or hot tub, that could be considered enticing to a child. The law, however, does not extend to wildlife.
Property owners are also not responsible for "invitee" encounters with wild animals, according to state law. The company would be responsible only if the alligators were kept as pets or under Disney's control.
Despite these protections, the company could be held accountable if found to be outright negligent.
John Mesirow, a personal injury lawyer in Washington, told the BBC that the case against Disney would be tough legally because of the infrequency of alligator attacks.
However, Disney would almost certainly settle with the family in a civil case to avoid a public relations disaster, Mr Mesirow said.

Peace

Degeneratefk · June 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
^^^
They will replay that visual until their last breath.
What a fucking nightmare.
There is no other story to this or debate - Their fucking kid died in a most surreal way.
Can you imagine what the child felt for those last seconds.

For once, I agree with you 100%.

what dreams · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:

what dreams said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:
Of course they killed 5 gators or whatever the numbers ... That's what humans do better than all other species on earth. And yes this is a nightmare for that family, of epic proportions obviously. But I've been to Florida I've seen gators on every visit. These parents should have known not to enter a lagoon at dusk in Florida...a tiny Google research would have helped. My parents (the least protective parents of all time) would take our family to north west Ontario camping and we weren't allowed to go the bathroom alone for fear of bears and both parents knew what to do if bears were around. Yes better signage would have helped, a little common sense helps as well.
Not everyone knows about the gator issue. Many people don't know a lot about a lot. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents. I don't think it was willful ignorance. Most people in the world actually DON'T know about alligators, what their usual habitat is, or what their feeding schedule is. That isn't common knowledge for most people who don't live anywhere near alligators, and Disneyworld hardly seems like a place where people would be assuming that there is extreme danger when it comes to wildlife. That kind of caution is generally reserved for the jungle and shit like that for average, urbanized Americans. It's not like there are travel warnings highlighted when people book tix to Florida.
Yes, if there is a pond loaded with alligators at a resort, there should be "danger: alligators" signs all over the place, with pictures of alligators attacking people, not just "no swimming" signs.
thing is ... you will find gators all over the south ... in lots of bodies of water and there typically aren't signs ...

did the gator drown the boy and then leave it? anyone know?
But we're talking about a Disney resort. That's totally different.
A Disney resort in the south where there is water. I don't really understand the excuses made for people's lack of general knowledge, which this is.

I've been to Nebraska as a tourist. Before I went there, I knew there would be corn. I learned it in elementary school geography, the same time I learned there's alligators in Florida.
I just don't think your assessment or your comparison seems fair. There are also a lot of bears in Canada, but I don't think everyone coming to Canada expects to be attacked by one when they are walking down the street in a resort.

No, I wouldn't expect that, if I didn't see any bears. Bears don't sneak up on you in the middle of the street. If I were in a wooded resort, where bears could be camouflaged, I would be wary. The problem with alligators is that they lurk under water. I would know that about alligators. If I were near a lagoon in Florida, I would be wary. It's terribly sad these parents did not know that. I don't get why they didn't, but I don't blame or shame them for the accident. Like I said, I'm just perplexed.

PJ_Soul · June 2016

Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.

Degeneratefk · June 2016

what dreams said:

PJ_Soul said:

what dreams said:

PJ_Soul said:

polaris_x said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:
Of course they killed 5 gators or whatever the numbers ... That's what humans do better than all other species on earth. And yes this is a nightmare for that family, of epic proportions obviously. But I've been to Florida I've seen gators on every visit. These parents should have known not to enter a lagoon at dusk in Florida...a tiny Google research would have helped. My parents (the least protective parents of all time) would take our family to north west Ontario camping and we weren't allowed to go the bathroom alone for fear of bears and both parents knew what to do if bears were around. Yes better signage would have helped, a little common sense helps as well.
Not everyone knows about the gator issue. Many people don't know a lot about a lot. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents. I don't think it was willful ignorance. Most people in the world actually DON'T know about alligators, what their usual habitat is, or what their feeding schedule is. That isn't common knowledge for most people who don't live anywhere near alligators, and Disneyworld hardly seems like a place where people would be assuming that there is extreme danger when it comes to wildlife. That kind of caution is generally reserved for the jungle and shit like that for average, urbanized Americans. It's not like there are travel warnings highlighted when people book tix to Florida.
Yes, if there is a pond loaded with alligators at a resort, there should be "danger: alligators" signs all over the place, with pictures of alligators attacking people, not just "no swimming" signs.
thing is ... you will find gators all over the south ... in lots of bodies of water and there typically aren't signs ...

did the gator drown the boy and then leave it? anyone know?
But we're talking about a Disney resort. That's totally different.
A Disney resort in the south where there is water. I don't really understand the excuses made for people's lack of general knowledge, which this is.

I've been to Nebraska as a tourist. Before I went there, I knew there would be corn. I learned it in elementary school geography, the same time I learned there's alligators in Florida.
I just don't think your assessment or your comparison seems fair. There are also a lot of bears in Canada, but I don't think everyone coming to Canada expects to be attacked by one when they are walking down the street in a resort.
No, I wouldn't expect that, if I didn't see any bears. Bears don't sneak up on you in the middle of the street. If I were in a wooded resort, where bears could be camouflaged, I would be wary. The problem with alligators is that they lurk under water. I would know that about alligators. If I were near a lagoon in Florida, I would be wary. It's terribly sad these parents did not know that. I don't get why they didn't, but I don't blame or shame them for the accident. Like I said, I'm just perplexed.

It is possible that the parents did in fact know that about alligators. They were in ankle deep water. Even if you thought in the back of your mind "there could be an alligator here," you think that there's no way a gator will fuck with me in ankle deep water while I'm right next to my child.

So God damn horrifying. These people will need therapy for such a long time.

what dreams · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.

Well, I guess I'm just not that naive about things.

Some people live their life thinking, "It will never happen to me."

I live my life thinking, "Anything that can happen, will happen."

Enkidu · June 2016

PJ_Soul said:
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.

I agree - my husband and I had this conversation last night. Disney resort. Man-made pond. Strip of sandy beach, boats, no swimming signs - fine but it looks like the perfect place to sit or walk to the edge of the water. It wouldn't occur to me to think there might be alligators there.

what dreams · June 2016

So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.

oftenreading · June 2016

what dreams said:
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.

The natural environment of a Disney theme park?

I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.

Merkin Baller · June 2016

Enkidu said:

PJ_Soul said:
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
I agree - my husband and I had this conversation last night. Disney resort. Man-made pond. Strip of sandy beach, boats, no swimming signs - fine but it looks like the perfect place to sit or walk to the edge of the water. It wouldn't occur to me to think there might be alligators there.

Add in the fact that Disney was screening a movie on the shore of the lagoon. It's pretty easy to see how the family was lulled into a feeling of security.

In fairness, national geographic puts the odds of being attacked by an alligator in Florida @ 1 in 2.4 million. You're more likely to get hit by lightning. To expect Disney to be actively trapping and removing alligators from the lagoon as a preventative measure probably isn't realistic.

Despite these incredibly long odds, I still can't fathom why they wouldn't at least take a more proactive approach to educating their guests as to the dangers of interacting with the local wildlife. ESPECIALLY in light of the reports of guests feeding alligators and the kid getting 'aggressively approached' by one a few years back. If those stories are true, it's mind blowing to think a resort that caters to young children didn't take at least SOME preventative measures to avoid something like this.

what dreams · June 2016

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?

I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.

This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.

Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.

g under p · June 2016

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?

I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.

Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.

Speaking of panthers.....back in 2011 after coming home from the gym one morning l made my turn into our driveway when I saw something out of the corner of my eye. It scampered right in the middle of the driveway, it was a Florida panther and it took one long look back at me. Only to see my jaw hit the floor I was like no way. It's one thing if one ever see these animals in a zoo but to see it standing in your driveway freaked me out. In a flash it wandered off behind our shed and into a cypress hammock. I stayed there in shock then I came around then put our dog in its cage he must of thought he did something wrong. I called the guard gate to let them know what I saw and to put out some kind of warning for the many small animals and the neighbors who had dwarf horses.
Peace

cincybearcat · June 2016

This story is awful.

If you have ever been to Florida, you see gators on the side of the road in the storm water areas from time to time. They are on well maintained golf courses. The Disney resorts are not inside some wall to keep everything out.

I don't blame anyone in this situation. And while some think signs are the answer, they will be for now since people are sensitized. But 5 years from now people and kids will be walking through the water regardless of the signs.

Perhaps since so may trave to Florida from far away for Disney vacations, while not responsible, perhaps they should have information about gators in every hotel room.

I don't know, it's just very sad.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2016

cincybearcat said:
This story is awful.

If you have ever been to Florida, you see gators on the side of the road in the storm water areas from time to time. They are on well maintained golf courses. The Disney resorts are not inside some wall to keep everything out.

I don't blame anyone in this situation. And while some think signs are the answer, they will be for now since people are sensitized. But 5 years from now people and kids will be walking through the water regardless of the signs.

Perhaps since so may trave to Florida from far away for Disney vacations, while not responsible, perhaps they should have information about gators in every hotel room.

I don't know, it's just very sad.

Good idea. Awareness is critical. This is where Disney will find themselves negligent.

oftenreading · June 2016

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?

I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.

Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.

Why yes, that was a joke. Well spotted.

I think you mean "natural range", not "natural environment". A Disney theme park is not the natural environment for anything, including humans. I agree that the area is within the natural range of the alligators. On page 1 of this thread I posted in support (so to speak) of accepting that the alligators are in their range and doing their thing. I am never in favour of extirpating an animal from its natural range just because humans have moved in. But that is a different point than whether people, particularly people who have never been to Florida, should know to expect alligators in man made ponds in a theme park.

what dreams · June 2016

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?

I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.

Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
Why yes, that was a joke. Well spotted.

I think you mean "natural range", not "natural environment". A Disney theme park is not the natural environment for anything, including humans. I agree that the area is within the natural range of the alligators. On page 1 of this thread I posted in support (so to speak) of accepting that the alligators are in their range and doing their thing. I am never in favour of extirpating an animal from its natural range just because humans have moved in. But that is a different point than whether people, particularly people who have never been to Florida, should know to expect alligators in man made ponds in a theme park.

Okay, well then great, we agree, Mr. Wordsmith. The alligators are in their *range,* and now the whole world, thanks to this tragedy, should know there are alligators in Disney resorts. From this point forward, anyone who doesn't know that is really fucking stupid.

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