If Disneyworld knew that and just left the gators without adding adequate signage and warnings, they should be sued. I think Disney was really irresponsible here.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's so tragic. They were on Disney property...you can't reasonably be expected to be attacked by a wild animal within a vacation resort.
What price do you put on torment? The parents will deal with this every day for the rest of their lives. There will not be a day that they don't think about it.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
It's so tragic. They were on Disney property...you can't reasonably be expected to be attacked by a wild animal within a vacation resort.
What price do you put on torment? The parents will deal with this every day for the rest of their lives. There will not be a day that they don't think about it.
Agreed, no amount of money will EVAH erase the memory of this family's loss.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
According to Florida's premises liability law, a property owner is responsible for keeping property in a safe condition and for warning its "invitee", or someone welcomed onto the property, of concealed dangers that are known to owners. The owner is also responsible if a child who has trespassed is harmed by an "attractive nuisance" on the property. An "attractive nuisance" is defined as an artificial item, such as a swimming pool or hot tub, that could be considered enticing to a child. The law, however, does not extend to wildlife. Property owners are also not responsible for "invitee" encounters with wild animals, according to state law. The company would be responsible only if the alligators were kept as pets or under Disney's control. Despite these protections, the company could be held accountable if found to be outright negligent. John Mesirow, a personal injury lawyer in Washington, told the BBC that the case against Disney would be tough legally because of the infrequency of alligator attacks. However, Disney would almost certainly settle with the family in a civil case to avoid a public relations disaster, Mr Mesirow said.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
^^^ They will replay that visual until their last breath. What a fucking nightmare. There is no other story to this or debate - Their fucking kid died in a most surreal way. Can you imagine what the child felt for those last seconds.
For once, I agree with you 100%.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Of course they killed 5 gators or whatever the numbers ... That's what humans do better than all other species on earth. And yes this is a nightmare for that family, of epic proportions obviously. But I've been to Florida I've seen gators on every visit. These parents should have known not to enter a lagoon at dusk in Florida...a tiny Google research would have helped. My parents (the least protective parents of all time) would take our family to north west Ontario camping and we weren't allowed to go the bathroom alone for fear of bears and both parents knew what to do if bears were around. Yes better signage would have helped, a little common sense helps as well.
Not everyone knows about the gator issue. Many people don't know a lot about a lot. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents. I don't think it was willful ignorance. Most people in the world actually DON'T know about alligators, what their usual habitat is, or what their feeding schedule is. That isn't common knowledge for most people who don't live anywhere near alligators, and Disneyworld hardly seems like a place where people would be assuming that there is extreme danger when it comes to wildlife. That kind of caution is generally reserved for the jungle and shit like that for average, urbanized Americans. It's not like there are travel warnings highlighted when people book tix to Florida. Yes, if there is a pond loaded with alligators at a resort, there should be "danger: alligators" signs all over the place, with pictures of alligators attacking people, not just "no swimming" signs.
thing is ... you will find gators all over the south ... in lots of bodies of water and there typically aren't signs ...
did the gator drown the boy and then leave it? anyone know?
But we're talking about a Disney resort. That's totally different.
A Disney resort in the south where there is water. I don't really understand the excuses made for people's lack of general knowledge, which this is.
I've been to Nebraska as a tourist. Before I went there, I knew there would be corn. I learned it in elementary school geography, the same time I learned there's alligators in Florida.
I just don't think your assessment or your comparison seems fair. There are also a lot of bears in Canada, but I don't think everyone coming to Canada expects to be attacked by one when they are walking down the street in a resort.
No, I wouldn't expect that, if I didn't see any bears. Bears don't sneak up on you in the middle of the street. If I were in a wooded resort, where bears could be camouflaged, I would be wary. The problem with alligators is that they lurk under water. I would know that about alligators. If I were near a lagoon in Florida, I would be wary. It's terribly sad these parents did not know that. I don't get why they didn't, but I don't blame or shame them for the accident. Like I said, I'm just perplexed.
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Of course they killed 5 gators or whatever the numbers ... That's what humans do better than all other species on earth. And yes this is a nightmare for that family, of epic proportions obviously. But I've been to Florida I've seen gators on every visit. These parents should have known not to enter a lagoon at dusk in Florida...a tiny Google research would have helped. My parents (the least protective parents of all time) would take our family to north west Ontario camping and we weren't allowed to go the bathroom alone for fear of bears and both parents knew what to do if bears were around. Yes better signage would have helped, a little common sense helps as well.
Not everyone knows about the gator issue. Many people don't know a lot about a lot. I don't think it's fair to blame the parents. I don't think it was willful ignorance. Most people in the world actually DON'T know about alligators, what their usual habitat is, or what their feeding schedule is. That isn't common knowledge for most people who don't live anywhere near alligators, and Disneyworld hardly seems like a place where people would be assuming that there is extreme danger when it comes to wildlife. That kind of caution is generally reserved for the jungle and shit like that for average, urbanized Americans. It's not like there are travel warnings highlighted when people book tix to Florida. Yes, if there is a pond loaded with alligators at a resort, there should be "danger: alligators" signs all over the place, with pictures of alligators attacking people, not just "no swimming" signs.
thing is ... you will find gators all over the south ... in lots of bodies of water and there typically aren't signs ...
did the gator drown the boy and then leave it? anyone know?
But we're talking about a Disney resort. That's totally different.
A Disney resort in the south where there is water. I don't really understand the excuses made for people's lack of general knowledge, which this is.
I've been to Nebraska as a tourist. Before I went there, I knew there would be corn. I learned it in elementary school geography, the same time I learned there's alligators in Florida.
I just don't think your assessment or your comparison seems fair. There are also a lot of bears in Canada, but I don't think everyone coming to Canada expects to be attacked by one when they are walking down the street in a resort.
No, I wouldn't expect that, if I didn't see any bears. Bears don't sneak up on you in the middle of the street. If I were in a wooded resort, where bears could be camouflaged, I would be wary. The problem with alligators is that they lurk under water. I would know that about alligators. If I were near a lagoon in Florida, I would be wary. It's terribly sad these parents did not know that. I don't get why they didn't, but I don't blame or shame them for the accident. Like I said, I'm just perplexed.
It is possible that the parents did in fact know that about alligators. They were in ankle deep water. Even if you thought in the back of your mind "there could be an alligator here," you think that there's no way a gator will fuck with me in ankle deep water while I'm right next to my child.
So God damn horrifying. These people will need therapy for such a long time.
Post edited by Degeneratefk on
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
Well, I guess I'm just not that naive about things.
Some people live their life thinking, "It will never happen to me."
I live my life thinking, "Anything that can happen, will happen."
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
I agree - my husband and I had this conversation last night. Disney resort. Man-made pond. Strip of sandy beach, boats, no swimming signs - fine but it looks like the perfect place to sit or walk to the edge of the water. It wouldn't occur to me to think there might be alligators there.
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
I agree - my husband and I had this conversation last night. Disney resort. Man-made pond. Strip of sandy beach, boats, no swimming signs - fine but it looks like the perfect place to sit or walk to the edge of the water. It wouldn't occur to me to think there might be alligators there.
Add in the fact that Disney was screening a movie on the shore of the lagoon. It's pretty easy to see how the family was lulled into a feeling of security.
In fairness, national geographic puts the odds of being attacked by an alligator in Florida @ 1 in 2.4 million. You're more likely to get hit by lightning. To expect Disney to be actively trapping and removing alligators from the lagoon as a preventative measure probably isn't realistic.
Despite these incredibly long odds, I still can't fathom why they wouldn't at least take a more proactive approach to educating their guests as to the dangers of interacting with the local wildlife. ESPECIALLY in light of the reports of guests feeding alligators and the kid getting 'aggressively approached' by one a few years back. If those stories are true, it's mind blowing to think a resort that caters to young children didn't take at least SOME preventative measures to avoid something like this.
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.
Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.
Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
Speaking of panthers.....back in 2011 after coming home from the gym one morning l made my turn into our driveway when I saw something out of the corner of my eye. It scampered right in the middle of the driveway, it was a Florida panther and it took one long look back at me. Only to see my jaw hit the floor I was like no way. It's one thing if one ever see these animals in a zoo but to see it standing in your driveway freaked me out. In a flash it wandered off behind our shed and into a cypress hammock. I stayed there in shock then I came around then put our dog in its cage he must of thought he did something wrong. I called the guard gate to let them know what I saw and to put out some kind of warning for the many small animals and the neighbors who had dwarf horses. Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
If you have ever been to Florida, you see gators on the side of the road in the storm water areas from time to time. They are on well maintained golf courses. The Disney resorts are not inside some wall to keep everything out.
I don't blame anyone in this situation. And while some think signs are the answer, they will be for now since people are sensitized. But 5 years from now people and kids will be walking through the water regardless of the signs.
Perhaps since so may trave to Florida from far away for Disney vacations, while not responsible, perhaps they should have information about gators in every hotel room.
If you have ever been to Florida, you see gators on the side of the road in the storm water areas from time to time. They are on well maintained golf courses. The Disney resorts are not inside some wall to keep everything out.
I don't blame anyone in this situation. And while some think signs are the answer, they will be for now since people are sensitized. But 5 years from now people and kids will be walking through the water regardless of the signs.
Perhaps since so may trave to Florida from far away for Disney vacations, while not responsible, perhaps they should have information about gators in every hotel room.
I don't know, it's just very sad.
Good idea. Awareness is critical. This is where Disney will find themselves negligent.
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.
Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
Why yes, that was a joke. Well spotted.
I think you mean "natural range", not "natural environment". A Disney theme park is not the natural environment for anything, including humans. I agree that the area is within the natural range of the alligators. On page 1 of this thread I posted in support (so to speak) of accepting that the alligators are in their range and doing their thing. I am never in favour of extirpating an animal from its natural range just because humans have moved in. But that is a different point than whether people, particularly people who have never been to Florida, should know to expect alligators in man made ponds in a theme park.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So, I'm determining from this thread that some good came from this tragedy. The whole world now knows that Disney built a resort in alligator country. They will now put up signs to make that more clear to the tourists who did not previously have knowledge of this. Some tourists will continue to ignore the more explicit signs (because that's what people do), the alligators will continue to live in their natural environment, but hopefully there won't be another accident.
The natural environment of a Disney theme park?
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
This is a joke, right? It's incredibly foolish of human beings to think they can keep an animal out of its natural home with a fence. Sorry, the alligators were there long before Disney. They are not going anywhere, unless of course you think it's appropriate to kill every last one of them on sight.
Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
Why yes, that was a joke. Well spotted.
I think you mean "natural range", not "natural environment". A Disney theme park is not the natural environment for anything, including humans. I agree that the area is within the natural range of the alligators. On page 1 of this thread I posted in support (so to speak) of accepting that the alligators are in their range and doing their thing. I am never in favour of extirpating an animal from its natural range just because humans have moved in. But that is a different point than whether people, particularly people who have never been to Florida, should know to expect alligators in man made ponds in a theme park.
Okay, well then great, we agree, Mr. Wordsmith. The alligators are in their *range,* and now the whole world, thanks to this tragedy, should know there are alligators in Disney resorts. From this point forward, anyone who doesn't know that is really fucking stupid.
Well I would personally assume that if I'm at a Disney resort there wouldn't be any alligators in the man-made ponds. Without any signs, I would actually assume that the resort would have made a point of making sure the guests wouldn't be attacked by alligators, which would mean either warning signs or no alligators. I would also not expect alligators not to be in the swimming pools in a Disney resort. Kind of like I expect not to wake up with a rat crawling over my face at the Four Seasons.
Well, I guess I'm just not that naive about things.
Some people live their life thinking, "It will never happen to me."
I live my life thinking, "Anything that can happen, will happen."
Lol, well the thing is, I am one of the least "it will never happen to me" people ever. I actually totally think shit could happen to me and probably will. So no, that is absolutely not what I'm saying. I just also expect massive companies rolling in money to manage their responsibilities properly. A fucking man made pond in a Disney resort that is lousy with killer alligators??? Come on. Hindsight is 20/20, but this is a pretty ludicrous thing to expect people to have foreknowledge of or paranoia about. It sounds like you're saying that anyone who didn't expect their kid to be attacked by an alligator while ankle deep in a man made pond in a Disney resort that has absolutely no warning signs and no mention by anyone there that it's a danger are naive idiots, and I think that's bordering on disgusting on your part.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have not said once that the parents should have expected this. In fact, I've said multiple times that I feel compassion for their loss.
My comments about people's stupidity are directed toward all the posters in this thread who claim they wouldn't expect there to be alligators in Florida. That lack of common knowledge stuns me. Like you said, there are bears in Canada. People just know that shit. It would be a horrible freak accident to be attacked by one at a resort. But I wouldn't be a dumb ass and say, "I never knew there are bears in Canada" and then sue the resort if my kid got eaten by one.
Whatever, PJSoul. Forgive me. I forgot. You are right about everything, and I am borderline disgusting for expecting people to understand that this was a freak accident with nothing to blame but the laws of nature.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have not said once that the parents should have expected this. In fact, I've said multiple times that I feel compassion for their loss.
My comments about people's stupidity are directed toward all the posters in this thread who claim they wouldn't expect there to be alligators in Florida. That lack of common knowledge stuns me. Like you said, there are bears in Canada. People just know that shit. It would be a horrible freak accident to be attacked by one at a resort. But I wouldn't be a dumb ass and say, "I never knew there are bears in Canada" and then sue the resort if my kid got eaten by one.
It's all about understanding the scope of threat.
Someone would be pretty stupid to not investigate a natural body of water for threat, but there's an assumption of safety at Disneyworld. Get on a ride... expect to get off at the end of it. Walk through the grounds... expect to not be accosted. Dip your toes in a body of water... expect to pull them out intact without encountering a dangerous animal.
Disneyworld has a heightened level of responsibility because they cater to young children. Yes... parents bring these young children... but they bring them to the secure and safe playground Disney presents itself to be. If they want alligators, then they'll tent in the swamps.
a man made pond or a natural pond means what exactly? gators don't care as long as it's water. i myself do believe there are gators everywhere down in florida. how does disney or any other resort keep gators out? it is nearly impossible i would imagine.
Agreed, people expect to be safe and go back home.
But I also know, every time I've gotten on an amusement park ride, that something terribly awful could go wrong. It doesn't stop me from riding the ride, but if something went wrong, I would accept my reponsibilty in assuming the risk.
I used to water ski in a man made lake. I knew there could be water moccasins in the lake. One time I saw one about 20 yards from the boat while I was getting my skis on. If I had gotten bit, I wouldn't have sued the power company that made the lake.
I feel terrible for these parents. It was an innocent night out for them that ended in horror. They didn't know (apparently a fact I have to accept after reading through this post and seeing how uneducated people are about Florida).
But I just dont agree that its Disney's fault they didn't know. Why is it that everyone just assumes Disney doesn't care about its guests, that they don't care if something like this happens? That they deliberately didn't hang alligator posters everywhere because they want to trap 2 year-olds in lagoons? They obviously cared enough to put up a sign that says "no swimming." I see "no swimming" signs everywhere. When I see them, I stop to think about why and assess my surroundings. I feel compassion for the parents, but I don't jump on Disney for making perfectly logical assumptions about the intelligence of their adult guests. Given that I am also guilty of assuming people have brains, I find it easy to see both sides.
i guess i watch too much animal bullshit on the tube. crocs for example very easily lie in the shallows just waiting to jump out of the water & clamp the jaws around some lunch. there are these massive (i believe asian) catfish that lie in shallow water, jump up & snag birds at the water's edge. orcas? we all know how they do things...
shallow water does not mean you're safe. you're not 100% safe swimming or wading in a fucking lake in florida. speaking of swimming in a lake down south - what about that microscopic brain chowing bug that lives in the warm waters of the south. many ppl die every year because of this little trouble maker
a man made pond or a natural pond means what exactly? gators don't care as long as it's water. i myself do believe there are gators everywhere down in florida. how does disney or any other resort keep gators out? it is nearly impossible i would imagine.
And you would be correct. Trust me, after living in FL for 46 years, anywhere there is a body of water near by, there could be a gator.
Signage. Fences. As Cincy said... awareness cards in the room. These are all items that would suggest Disney did its part to make guests aware of the risks.
It's the same thing as a spill in a public place. Someone is required to clean it up and the area is typically marked off with a cone to indicate a spill. Yes... I can see there has been a spill, but that is irrelevant... it is incumbent upon the site to minimize risks.
Argue all you want, but if you operate a place of business and have people enter your place of business... you have a responsibility. This is the law.
I typically argue for personal responsibility, however in this instance... I see gross negligence. If the above items were evident and Disney had not ignored requests to remove gators... I would suggest the parents were neglectful (as I did with the mother and her child in the gorilla compound).
Comments
What price do you put on torment? The parents will deal with this every day for the rest of their lives. There will not be a day that they don't think about it.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
If it were me - I hate to even type that - I would assume full responsibility for my child.
I do also agree with who would expect gators at a resort...? But..what about I don't know other areas that have deadly scorpions or bugs or whatever.
It just fucking sucks.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
According to Florida's premises liability law, a property owner is responsible for keeping property in a safe condition and for warning its "invitee", or someone welcomed onto the property, of concealed dangers that are known to owners.
The owner is also responsible if a child who has trespassed is harmed by an "attractive nuisance" on the property. An "attractive nuisance" is defined as an artificial item, such as a swimming pool or hot tub, that could be considered enticing to a child. The law, however, does not extend to wildlife.
Property owners are also not responsible for "invitee" encounters with wild animals, according to state law. The company would be responsible only if the alligators were kept as pets or under Disney's control.
Despite these protections, the company could be held accountable if found to be outright negligent.
John Mesirow, a personal injury lawyer in Washington, told the BBC that the case against Disney would be tough legally because of the infrequency of alligator attacks.
However, Disney would almost certainly settle with the family in a civil case to avoid a public relations disaster, Mr Mesirow said.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
we will find a way, we will find our place
So God damn horrifying. These people will need therapy for such a long time.
we will find a way, we will find our place
Some people live their life thinking, "It will never happen to me."
I live my life thinking, "Anything that can happen, will happen."
I guess we should expect sharks in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride then.
In fairness, national geographic puts the odds of being attacked by an alligator in Florida @ 1 in 2.4 million. You're more likely to get hit by lightning. To expect Disney to be actively trapping and removing alligators from the lagoon as a preventative measure probably isn't realistic.
Despite these incredibly long odds, I still can't fathom why they wouldn't at least take a more proactive approach to educating their guests as to the dangers of interacting with the local wildlife. ESPECIALLY in light of the reports of guests feeding alligators and the kid getting 'aggressively approached' by one a few years back. If those stories are true, it's mind blowing to think a resort that caters to young children didn't take at least SOME preventative measures to avoid something like this.
Read about the fate of the Florida panther due to human activity. I would hate to see that happen to the alligators because a few tourists can't handle themselves on vacation.
Peace
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.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
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If you have ever been to Florida, you see gators on the side of the road in the storm water areas from time to time. They are on well maintained golf courses. The Disney resorts are not inside some wall to keep everything out.
I don't blame anyone in this situation. And while some think signs are the answer, they will be for now since people are sensitized. But 5 years from now people and kids will be walking through the water regardless of the signs.
Perhaps since so may trave to Florida from far away for Disney vacations, while not responsible, perhaps they should have information about gators in every hotel room.
I don't know, it's just very sad.
I think you mean "natural range", not "natural environment". A Disney theme park is not the natural environment for anything, including humans. I agree that the area is within the natural range of the alligators. On page 1 of this thread I posted in support (so to speak) of accepting that the alligators are in their range and doing their thing. I am never in favour of extirpating an animal from its natural range just because humans have moved in. But that is a different point than whether people, particularly people who have never been to Florida, should know to expect alligators in man made ponds in a theme park.
My comments about people's stupidity are directed toward all the posters in this thread who claim they wouldn't expect there to be alligators in Florida. That lack of common knowledge stuns me. Like you said, there are bears in Canada. People just know that shit. It would be a horrible freak accident to be attacked by one at a resort. But I wouldn't be a dumb ass and say, "I never knew there are bears in Canada" and then sue the resort if my kid got eaten by one.
Someone would be pretty stupid to not investigate a natural body of water for threat, but there's an assumption of safety at Disneyworld. Get on a ride... expect to get off at the end of it. Walk through the grounds... expect to not be accosted. Dip your toes in a body of water... expect to pull them out intact without encountering a dangerous animal.
Disneyworld has a heightened level of responsibility because they cater to young children. Yes... parents bring these young children... but they bring them to the secure and safe playground Disney presents itself to be. If they want alligators, then they'll tent in the swamps.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
But I also know, every time I've gotten on an amusement park ride, that something terribly awful could go wrong. It doesn't stop me from riding the ride, but if something went wrong, I would accept my reponsibilty in assuming the risk.
I used to water ski in a man made lake. I knew there could be water moccasins in the lake. One time I saw one about 20 yards from the boat while I was getting my skis on. If I had gotten bit, I wouldn't have sued the power company that made the lake.
I feel terrible for these parents. It was an innocent night out for them that ended in horror. They didn't know (apparently a fact I have to accept after reading through this post and seeing how uneducated people are about Florida).
But I just dont agree that its Disney's fault they didn't know. Why is it that everyone just assumes Disney doesn't care about its guests, that they don't care if something like this happens? That they deliberately didn't hang alligator posters everywhere because they want to trap 2 year-olds in lagoons? They obviously cared enough to put up a sign that says "no swimming." I see "no swimming" signs everywhere. When I see them, I stop to think about why and assess my surroundings. I feel compassion for the parents, but I don't jump on Disney for making perfectly logical assumptions about the intelligence of their adult guests. Given that I am also guilty of assuming people have brains, I find it easy to see both sides.
shallow water does not mean you're safe. you're not 100% safe swimming or wading in a fucking lake in florida. speaking of swimming in a lake down south - what about that microscopic brain chowing bug that lives in the warm waters of the south. many ppl die every year because of this little trouble maker
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
It's the same thing as a spill in a public place. Someone is required to clean it up and the area is typically marked off with a cone to indicate a spill. Yes... I can see there has been a spill, but that is irrelevant... it is incumbent upon the site to minimize risks.
Argue all you want, but if you operate a place of business and have people enter your place of business... you have a responsibility. This is the law.
I typically argue for personal responsibility, however in this instance... I see gross negligence. If the above items were evident and Disney had not ignored requests to remove gators... I would suggest the parents were neglectful (as I did with the mother and her child in the gorilla compound).