Hillary won more votes for President

What will some of you do if Clinton wins the nomination? All of this vitriol would make you quite hypocritical in voting for her, no? Will you vote for the republican or just stay home?

Free said:

JC29856 said:

"I don't know where he was when I was trying to get healthcare in '93 and '94," Clinton said, according to New York Times reporter Amy Chozick.

I'm thinking dementia. Literally standing behind her.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/272790-sanders-spokesperson-fires-back-at-clinton-for-healthcare

My advice for reckless Hillary is to do her homework before you start bashing your opponent... She's just making him look better and better.

it's really quite comical all the obvious blunders she has made.

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Free said:

JC29856 said:

"I don't know where he was when I was trying to get healthcare in '93 and '94," Clinton said, according to New York Times reporter Amy Chozick.

I'm thinking dementia. Literally standing behind her.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/272790-sanders-spokesperson-fires-back-at-clinton-for-healthcare

My advice for reckless Hillary is to do her homework before you start bashing your opponent... She's just making him look better and better.

it's really quite comical all the obvious blunders she has made.

Ironically, she's not good at attacking.

she wasn't attacking Nancy Reagan when she claimed she was a beacon of hope for AIDS sufferers.

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

I think people are a little too hung up on this, you have to aim pretty high to hit the middle in this government...

But what's the middle? Isn't Obamacare already the middle? I don't want medicare, personally. I like that there's something available for those that don't have health through their company. But don't force me on it.

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

I guess I should have been more clear, I was thinking primarily about Canada and single payer health care.

But all your points are fair. I just don't agree about the use of the word revolutionary, it implies an almost impossibility. Would changing be hard, yes....but not so hard that it can't be done

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

I guess I should have been more clear, I was thinking primarily about Canada and single payer health care.

But all your points are fair. I just don't agree about the use of the word revolutionary, it implies an almost impossibility. Would changing be hard, yes....but not so hard that it can't be done

Fair. I was thinking about the litany of proposals on his website and how he plans to pay for them. Payroll taxes, trade taxes (which he calls speculation, although I wouldn't classify stock trading as speculation), and a dramatic increase in the marginal income tax for upper middle class. It's a tough sell nationwide, I gotta tell you.

Regarding the single payer, I could get behind it eventually, but I'd like to evaluate the results of Obamacare first. The political reality is that Obama spent a TON of progressive capital on that issue and approval on it is barely 50/50. Of course part of that negative 50 could be people who want single payer. But the chances of a single payer getting through during the next four years are really nil. We need the dust to settle to make the next move. My 2 cents.

Your caution and criticism is fair. It is refreshing to have someone in the race who isn't playing it conservative and swinging for the fence. (minus Trump of course)

And your assessment on getting single payer through is unfortunately probably right. Unless of course the unthinkable happens and Bernie wins.....and gets a super majority. Which at this point I believe anything is possible in this election cycle.

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

I guess I should have been more clear, I was thinking primarily about Canada and single payer health care.

But all your points are fair. I just don't agree about the use of the word revolutionary, it implies an almost impossibility. Would changing be hard, yes....but not so hard that it can't be done

Fair. I was thinking about the litany of proposals on his website and how he plans to pay for them. Payroll taxes, trade taxes (which he calls speculation, although I wouldn't classify stock trading as speculation), and a dramatic increase in the marginal income tax for upper middle class. It's a tough sell nationwide, I gotta tell you.

Regarding the single payer, I could get behind it eventually, but I'd like to evaluate the results of Obamacare first. The political reality is that Obama spent a TON of progressive capital on that issue and approval on it is barely 50/50. Of course part of that negative 50 could be people who want single payer. But the chances of a single payer getting through during the next four years are really nil. We need the dust to settle to make the next move. My 2 cents.

Your caution and criticism is fair. It is refreshing to have someone in the race who isn't playing it conservative and swinging for the fence. (minus Trump of course)

And your assessment on getting single payer through is unfortunately probably right. Unless of course the unthinkable happens and Bernie wins.....and gets a super majority. Which at this point I believe anything is possible in this election cycle.

Well hell.. a Bernie win + a super majority would mean we are Sweden by next April. The Great Experiment will be well on its way.

Haha