Hillary won more votes for President

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

What about Canada? We're managing okay too.

I don't know enough about Canada's economy to agree or disagree with that. But I'm pretty certain that you don't have free university. You also have a lower marginal income tax rate than what Bernie is proposing. He is talking 39% I believe, for households about 250K. If you are in a big city, that is not rich for a family.

No, not free university, but much, much cheaper for quality, and none of this "universities for the rich" like in the US. I didn't mean to say we're exactly like what Bernie proposes, just that we lean to the socialistic side of things in some important ways and manage it successfully, so I don't see why the US couldn't do the same. But I'm not sure why you think 39% of 250K is that much. FYI, Canadians pay, on average, about 44% of their income on taxes (all taxes put together), and once you're earning around $150,000 you're up to around 38% for income tax (this varies somewhat from province to province, as it includes both federal and provincial income tax). So what Bernie is proposing seems completely normal to Canadians.

To your questions... well for Americans 39% of 250k is a lot. 8k a month in income tax is brutal. Plus you throw in social security (6%), state, local, sales, and suddenly you are paying over half of what you earn or buy in taxes. That is painful.

rgambs

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

What about Canada? We're managing okay too.

I don't know enough about Canada's economy to agree or disagree with that. But I'm pretty certain that you don't have free university. You also have a lower marginal income tax rate than what Bernie is proposing. He is talking 39% I believe, for households about 250K. If you are in a big city, that is not rich for a family.

No, not free university, but much, much cheaper for quality, and none of this "universities for the rich" like in the US. I didn't mean to say we're exactly like what Bernie proposes, just that we lean to the socialistic side of things in some important ways and manage it successfully, so I don't see why the US couldn't do the same. But I'm not sure why you think 39% of 250K is that much. FYI, Canadians pay, on average, about 44% of their income on taxes (all taxes put together), and once you're earning around $150,000 you're up to around 38% for income tax (this varies somewhat from province to province, as it includes both federal and provincial income tax). So what Bernie is proposing seems completely normal to Canadians.

To your questions... well for Americans 39% of 250k is a lot. 8k a month in income tax is brutal. Plus you throw in social security (6%), state, local, sales, and suddenly you are paying over half of what you earn or buy in taxes. That is painful.

I believe that is only because Americans are conditioned to think that they aren't receiving anything for their tax expenditures, when they obviously live in one of the richest, safest, most egalitarian societies that has ever existed.
I know you didn't mean "painful" literally, but there are billions of people who probably suffer through their entire life on less than 8,000$, certainly less than a single year's taxes. The taxes we pay, and that were paid by those before us, are the blood that powers the American body to prosperity.
Pain is real, and even the poorest American doesn't understand what pain is to the rest of the world.

mrussel1

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

What about Canada? We're managing okay too.

I don't know enough about Canada's economy to agree or disagree with that. But I'm pretty certain that you don't have free university. You also have a lower marginal income tax rate than what Bernie is proposing. He is talking 39% I believe, for households about 250K. If you are in a big city, that is not rich for a family.

No, not free university, but much, much cheaper for quality, and none of this "universities for the rich" like in the US. I didn't mean to say we're exactly like what Bernie proposes, just that we lean to the socialistic side of things in some important ways and manage it successfully, so I don't see why the US couldn't do the same. But I'm not sure why you think 39% of 250K is that much. FYI, Canadians pay, on average, about 44% of their income on taxes (all taxes put together), and once you're earning around $150,000 you're up to around 38% for income tax (this varies somewhat from province to province, as it includes both federal and provincial income tax). So what Bernie is proposing seems completely normal to Canadians.

To your questions... well for Americans 39% of 250k is a lot. 8k a month in income tax is brutal. Plus you throw in social security (6%), state, local, sales, and suddenly you are paying over half of what you earn or buy in taxes. That is painful.

I believe that is only because Americans are conditioned to think that they aren't receiving anything for their tax expenditures, when they obviously live in one of the richest, safest, most egalitarian societies that has ever existed.
I know you didn't mean "painful" literally, but there are billions of people who probably suffer through their entire life on less than 8,000$, certainly less than a single year's taxes. The taxes we pay, and that were paid by those before us, are the blood that powers the American body to prosperity.
Pain is real, and even the poorest American doesn't understand what pain is to the rest of the world.

So let's be clear. The US is clearly the most privileged society the world has ever seen (with the exception of Dubai). Of that, there is no question. But Bernie is advocating taxing me 50% so he can lift up the poor in Africa and India? I'd be more inclined on that front. There are already a TON of programs for the truly underclass in this country, and I have no issues with those or more (Medicare, grants, needs based scholarships, etc.). But I'm not inclined to pay 50% so that some middle class kid can get an art degree at no cost to him. I worked 55 hours a week managing a Pizza Hut so that I wasn't saddled with student loans, while in college. It took me 5.5 years to get my undergrad because I couldn't take more than 9-12 credits per semester. And it was a University of South Florida which isn't really a top notch school.

HughFreakingDillon

I don't agree with free university. the cost is out of this world, but it shouldn't be free. make the student loans interest free for 20 years if you wish, but not free.

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

What about Canada? We're managing okay too.

I don't know enough about Canada's economy to agree or disagree with that. But I'm pretty certain that you don't have free university. You also have a lower marginal income tax rate than what Bernie is proposing. He is talking 39% I believe, for households about 250K. If you are in a big city, that is not rich for a family.

No, not free university, but much, much cheaper for quality, and none of this "universities for the rich" like in the US. I didn't mean to say we're exactly like what Bernie proposes, just that we lean to the socialistic side of things in some important ways and manage it successfully, so I don't see why the US couldn't do the same. But I'm not sure why you think 39% of 250K is that much. FYI, Canadians pay, on average, about 44% of their income on taxes (all taxes put together), and once you're earning around $150,000 you're up to around 38% for income tax (this varies somewhat from province to province, as it includes both federal and provincial income tax). So what Bernie is proposing seems completely normal to Canadians.

To your questions... well for Americans 39% of 250k is a lot. 8k a month in income tax is brutal. Plus you throw in social security (6%), state, local, sales, and suddenly you are paying over half of what you earn or buy in taxes. That is painful.

Yeah, but you also spend less on services. The idea is that it works out in the end. And considering the standard of living in Canada, Sweden, Norway, etc, etc, it works pretty well.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Read it over coffee this morning and it was stronger than I expected. Great description of Hillary as a candidate out of time plus the comparison of Bernie to Cato the Elder is gold. Plus, the version of Trump's appeal laid out here is chilling. Too easy to think it is all just racism.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/hillary-clinton-2016-whats-wrong-with-hillary-213722

This was a good analysis. My support of Hillary is pragmatic in nature.
1. Mathematically, Bernie faces almost an impossible road. If he really loses FL by 30 points tomorrow, I don't see how it happens.
2. Bernie's plans are far too expensive for my tastes. I don't want a revolution. I want progress. We can't have a trillion in new spending and let the deficit go untouched.
3. Anyone but Trump

Look all over the world, what Bernie is proposing is hardly revolutionary.

Yes, but Europe is facing far more potent economic and employment crisis' than we are. I'm not sure we should strive to be Europe, in general. I would be okay with some progressive improvements. For example:
1. Reducing the student loan rates down to the discount rate. That seems like a no brainer. Although don't forget part of that interest rate goes to the servicing entity (I'm fairly certain). So there has to be some sort of vig in there to make it cost neutral.
2. Providing free community college (2 year degree). Now I actually think this should be done at the state level to start, not the federal. I'd like to see what it does to the quality of education, dropout rates (those are sunk costs since society doesn't get the benefit of the more educated person), cost of tuition, etc.

I would be opposed to something so dramatic being done at the federal level to start. Remember our schools are all state run and the model has, generally, worked. Creating a federal mandate is pretty dramatic and likely would not get out of Congress.

What about Canada? We're managing okay too.

I don't know enough about Canada's economy to agree or disagree with that. But I'm pretty certain that you don't have free university. You also have a lower marginal income tax rate than what Bernie is proposing. He is talking 39% I believe, for households about 250K. If you are in a big city, that is not rich for a family.

No, not free university, but much, much cheaper for quality, and none of this "universities for the rich" like in the US. I didn't mean to say we're exactly like what Bernie proposes, just that we lean to the socialistic side of things in some important ways and manage it successfully, so I don't see why the US couldn't do the same. But I'm not sure why you think 39% of 250K is that much. FYI, Canadians pay, on average, about 44% of their income on taxes (all taxes put together), and once you're earning around $150,000 you're up to around 38% for income tax (this varies somewhat from province to province, as it includes both federal and provincial income tax). So what Bernie is proposing seems completely normal to Canadians.

To your questions... well for Americans 39% of 250k is a lot. 8k a month in income tax is brutal. Plus you throw in social security (6%), state, local, sales, and suddenly you are paying over half of what you earn or buy in taxes. That is painful.

Yeah, but you also spend less on services. The idea is that it works out in the end. And considering the standard of living in Canada, Sweden, Norway, etc, etc, it works pretty well.

Do you guys pay high sales tax, province and local as well?

See my note about Harvard and Elizabeth Warren earlier. It astounds me that the universities aren't held to task about their tuition prices.

PJ_Soul

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do also have HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes (like, a pack of smokes costs $12 - $14 and a 750ml bottle of spirits usually runs at least $24 after taxes, and that's the low-end brands). Gas is taxed more too.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do have carbon taxes, and HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes, as well as gasoline.

What about additional income taxes, on top of the federal? We have state and local (depending where you live).

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do have carbon taxes, and HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes, as well as gasoline.

What about additional income taxes, on top of the federal? We have state and local (depending where you live).

As I mentioned, provincial income taxes as well. No local income taxes (not in BC anyway, as far as I know).
Property taxes are local though.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do have carbon taxes, and HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes, as well as gasoline.

What about additional income taxes, on top of the federal? We have state and local (depending where you live).

As I mentioned, provincial income taxes as well. No local income taxes (not in BC anyway, as far as I know).
Property taxes are local though.

I guess I"m not super clear on the nomenclature. I have federal income, social security, medicare, state and local. Those come straight out of paychecks. But then you have to pay sales tax on what you buy. That can vary by county to county, state to state. For example, when I lived in FL, it was 7.5% on everything you bought (hurts when you buy a car). Here in Virginia, it's about 6% (some nuances). That's before real estate and personal property taxes (annual car tax) too.

So bottom line, if my marginal income tax rate was say 25%, that's just the fed income number. Throw on the other income taxes, and I'm up to 34% (guessing). Then you pay sales on everything you buy.

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do have carbon taxes, and HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes, as well as gasoline.

What about additional income taxes, on top of the federal? We have state and local (depending where you live).

As I mentioned, provincial income taxes as well. No local income taxes (not in BC anyway, as far as I know).
Property taxes are local though.

I guess I"m not super clear on the nomenclature. I have federal income, social security, medicare, state and local. Those come straight out of paychecks. But then you have to pay sales tax on what you buy. That can vary by county to county, state to state. For example, when I lived in FL, it was 7.5% on everything you bought (hurts when you buy a car). Here in Virginia, it's about 6% (some nuances). That's before real estate and personal property taxes (annual car tax) too.

So bottom line, if my marginal income tax rate was say 25%, that's just the fed income number. Throw on the other income taxes, and I'm up to 34% (guessing). Then you pay sales on everything you buy.

As mentioned, the average in Canada for ALL taxes paid - income tax, sales taxes, property taxes, sin taxes, etc etc etc, is about 44% of income.
This does not include CPP as far as I know (Canadian Pension Plan, our version of social security), or MSP (medical premium ($34/month now??), which is often paid by employers in part or in full), etc.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, it astounds me about the universities too. I am actually a university administrator, and I find it absolutely appalling that universities in the US are allowed to basically sell degrees to rich people, directly contributing to ensuring that the poor stay poor and the rich stay rich. Disgusting. I don't know what else to say about it.

Sales taxes are provincial and vary from province to province. In BC it's 5% GST (applied to most things besides groceries) and 7% PST (applied to plenty of stuff, but there are many exemptions based on what the goods are, who they're for, etc). BC actually went to a 12% HST (as some other provinces have), but the populatuion rebelled so hard the government decided to let us vote on whether we wanted to keep it or not and we voted no, so we went back to the GST/PST model.
There are also some cases of additional local sales taxes in certain places, but it's not generally a big issue.
We do have carbon taxes, and HUGE taxes applied to booze and cigarettes, as well as gasoline.

What about additional income taxes, on top of the federal? We have state and local (depending where you live).

As I mentioned, provincial income taxes as well. No local income taxes (not in BC anyway, as far as I know).
Property taxes are local though.

I guess I"m not super clear on the nomenclature. I have federal income, social security, medicare, state and local. Those come straight out of paychecks. But then you have to pay sales tax on what you buy. That can vary by county to county, state to state. For example, when I lived in FL, it was 7.5% on everything you bought (hurts when you buy a car). Here in Virginia, it's about 6% (some nuances). That's before real estate and personal property taxes (annual car tax) too.

So bottom line, if my marginal income tax rate was say 25%, that's just the fed income number. Throw on the other income taxes, and I'm up to 34% (guessing). Then you pay sales on everything you buy.

As mentioned, the average in Canada for ALL taxes paid - income tax, sales taxes, property taxes, sin taxes, etc etc etc, is about 44% of income.
This does not include CPP as far as I know (Canadian Pension Plan, our version of social security), or MSP (medical premium ($34/month now??), which is often paid by employers in part or in full), etc.

That's not unreasonable. It seems pretty clear that you're not building enough weapons. That would suck you dry in a minute.

I'm not against many of these programs, I would just want some corresponding cuts. Defense spending would be a nice start. I'm also worried about deficit spending. It's not easy. I could swallow Bernie's plans over time, allowing the economy to absorb each of the changes for a few years before moving to the next.

mrussel1

FL called for Hillary already...The mountain gets higher.

jeffbr

mrussel1 said:

FL called for Hillary already...The mountain gets higher.

Yup, and it wasn't close. If Bernie doesn't pull off Ohio today (and I'm thinking he doesn't), he becomes a protest candidate.

CH156378

Congratulations, Hillary Clinton. 45th President of United States of America.

Gern Blansten

jeffbr said:

mrussel1 said:

FL called for Hillary already...The mountain gets higher.

Yup, and it wasn't close. If Bernie doesn't pull off Ohio today (and I'm thinking he doesn't), he becomes a protest candidate.

Protest candidate? Bernie will gracefully fall in line and support Hillary.

JC29856

Congrats Hillary backers! She can coast to the nomination.

brianlux

If Hillary wins I'm moving to Canada!

London Bridge

brianlux said:

If Hillary wins I'm moving to Canada!

Start packing

PJfanwillneverleave1

London Bridge said:

brianlux said:

If Hillary wins I'm moving to Canada!

Start packing

No way man.
We are building a wall and you muricans are paying for it.