Free I'm warming to Bernie and of course pick him if he wins nomination and will spread the message.
Bernie approves of your post.
Respect your gumption. Great thing.
So when the bird went to give Bernie message I was pretty much sold. I'm not very spiritual but thinking Mother Nature endorsed Bernie at that point. Was also great to see him smile.
Free I'm warming to Bernie and of course pick him if he wins nomination and will spread the message.
Bernie approves of your post.
Respect your gumption. Great thing.
So when the bird went to give Bernie message I was pretty much sold. I'm not very spiritual but thinking Mother Nature endorsed Bernie at that point. Was also great to see him smile.
Agreed. I believe in signs and that little Bird is definitely a sign.
Loving how I can post real evidence about hillary and why I, and so many other Americans, will not vote for her, and you fools only want to think Bernie has no chance. All I will say here is...
We will watch and see, now, won't we.
Evidence and opinion are not interchangeable. There are some statements in there that are factual (she supported the Iraq War), some that are hypocritical (She supported the Crime Bill (Which Sanders did as well, Monsanto, etc.)) and others that are ...opinion at best (She doesn't support single payer because the insurance companies would lose money). And almost every one of these can be refuted by anyone with a working knowledge of Bernie and Hillary's positions.
And you are in no position to call someone a fool.
And really enjoying Free and Russ's banter. Good stuff.
I'd rather discuss policy than negativity. But that's all I got going on here. I posted some real policy questions on the Bernie page, about education. I hope someone takes them up.
Hey Free! Let's play "Guess the Biography"!! Who am I?
- I helped create the superdelegate system in 1982 to prevent another McGovern like candidate - I ran the 2 campaigns for Viktor Yanukovich. Don't know who that is? Well let's just say his Putin puppet gov't led to the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine, an area that is fully destabilized today. My friend MRussel1 has lots of relative in the Ukraine, suffering. Oh yeah, he's wanted by Interpol for corruption and the deaths of over 70 protesters. No worry, he's hiding in Russia. - I worked for Winston and Strawn LLP before this gig. My firm represents Verizon, Pfizer, Phillip Morris (got a smoke?) and yes.... MONSANTO!! - I ran the campaigns for Jon Corzine. You remember Jon, right? Deposed CEO of Goldman Sachs... corrupt senator of NJ.. - I ran the campaign for Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, exiled leader of Bolivia who is wanted for a gov't massacre of protesters. - I make 800k per month now. It was 400k, but my employer is doing so well, he raised my salary.
Who am I? I'M TED DEVINE, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR BERNIE SANDERS!
You've mentioned Ukraine a couple times now...I've also seen you make negative comments about neo-cons, and counter my claims that Clinton is an establishment hawk... Have to wonder how you then reconcile the state department's role in engineering Ukraine's euromaidan under Hillary's resident neo-con appointee Victoria Nuland, whose resume includes positions in Bill Clinton's admin, foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, and now assistant secretary of state....and who is wife of PNAC founder and Brookings Institution commentator - mr.neo con himself and Hillary endorser - Robert Kagan. And the role of the Clinton Foundation in receiving funding from Ukrainian oligarchs and training government replacements. Brazen regime change on Russia's border. Just more realpolitik and opportunism? nothing to do with empire building....right?
You've mentioned Ukraine a couple times now...I've also seen you make negative comments about neo-cons, and counter my claims that Clinton is an establishment hawk... Have to wonder how you then reconcile the state department's role in engineering Ukraine's euromaidan under Hillary's resident neo-con appointee Victoria Nuland, whose resume includes positions in Bill Clinton's admin, foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, and now assistant secretary of state....and who is wife of PNAC founder and Brookings Institution commentator - mr.neo con himself and Hillary endorser - Robert Kagan. And the role of the Clinton Foundation in receiving funding from Ukrainian oligarchs and training government replacements. Brazen regime change on Russia's border. Just more realpolitik and opportunism? nothing to do with empire building....right?
So maybe I'm wrong, but Nuland was appointed by Kerry, not Clinton to her current State Department position. I did some quick research and did not see her under Hillary's tenure. She did work for Bill and Cheney. Regarding her marriage to Kagan, I'm not sure how that's relevant to anything. James Carville is married to Mary Matalin.
But in general, I'm not sure if I'm following your point. If your question is whether the State Department engineered the second Orange Revolution in 2013.. I don't know that to be true. I do know that Hillary wasn't Secy of State during the second major rounds of protest, and the proxy 'conflict' that has occurred between the US and Russia. Can you rephrase your question?
But secondly, I think I've been clear that Hillary is more hawkish than I believe in personally, but Sanders is too dovish, or naive to the realities of geopolitics. Not every country is pro-peace. I don't know the right place to be, but I've also been sympathetic to the realities of sitting in the Commander in Chief seat.
Nothing to rephrase, really...was curious your thoughts on the situation. Regardless of who Secretary of State was in 2013, the foundation of euromaidan was formed under clinton's watch. Nuland was indeed a Clinton appointee (tapped may 2011), and I think it is folly to disregard her marriage to Kagan; even if nuland had differing ideologies from her husband (which she doesn't). Kagan and his merry band of neocons hold massive sway in Washington....and he has endorsed Hillary Clinton. There is zero doubt that the state department engineered the recent events in Ukraine. It's evidenced in the recorded phone calls, the money trails from NGO's (including the Clinton foundation) to and from Ukraine, and the post revolution Ukraine cabinet appointments that aligned with both the calls and the money trails... Happy to see you at least admit she is more hawkish than you'd like. Maybe if she wins, supporters like you can be effective in pushing for accountability when this kind of shit continues - hopefully without making excuses for her about the realities of the position she's in. (I'm not sure what you mean by 'not every country is pro-peace'...it's not like the US had it's hand forced in pushing for a puppet government in Ukraine - it's been a bi-partisan goal for years). As for Sanders, I don't like his foreign policy either. I hardly think he is too dovish. As it pertains to military endeavors, his voting record is not all that different from Hillary's, and he has done/said little to convince me he would change the US imperialist agenda. If he were to come out on top, I have no doubt that the democrat version of imperialism would continue - humanitarian war, and more of the record foreign arms sales we've seen under Obama (arms used by allies to achieve US policy goals). The way I see it, there are no true anti-war candidates on either side of the aisle.
Here's the thing, from my biased seat (being a Ukrainian).. The last thing I want is for the Ukraine to be part of the Russian sphere of influence. My family has not forgotten Holomodor which was engineered by the Soviets in Russia. It took place right as my father emigrated and it devastated our family. Whole branches disappeared. So that's my starting point. The west has sought for years to pull the Ukraine away from the Russian orbit and into the western world, now the EU. By contrast, Russia is aggressively funding its pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine. They don't even deny the fact that they are arming them. So I would not be a proponent of a 'hands off' policy in the Ukraine for the United States. Do I support going in with ground troops? No, of course not. But I would not want our foreign policy to be hands off when the Russians are clearly so hands on and pulling them east to Moscow. Our support of Yushchenko was correct, both under the Bush and Obama administration.
This is realpolitick. We can't just sit back and let the Ukraine be a puppet state to the Russians. Many may disagree on this board.
See, that is falling into what I see as the trap of empire building under the guise of world police and humanitarian intervention. Do you think the US government would give a shit about Holodomor (which happened nearly a century ago) and any injustices laid upon the Ukrainian people since, if it was not a strategic benefit to hand the Russians a civil war entanglement in a region that houses their black sea fleet – the one that arms Assad in Syria, to gain influence over Russia’s main breadbasket region, to take over a major energy corridor to Europe etc….? THAT is why a Russian puppet regime is unacceptable to the US, not for any sympathetic reason. Eastern Ukraine has a majority of Russian speakers and has always been culturally closer to Russia than Europe. The pull into the European sphere of influence is a NATO encirclement initiative…saying the sought after influence would fall with the EU is contradicted by Nuland’s infamous ‘fuck the EU’ statement…the US pulls NATO’s strings, period. Ukraine’s history with the Soviets was no doubt a major driving force behind an alignment with the Nazis that still resonates today, with a number of real-life Nazis assigned important cabinet postings in the new government….by taking a ‘hands on’ approach, the US has found themselves aligned with these people....not all that different from the way the US finds itself aligned with extremists in the middle east as a 'realpolitik' way to make friends and influence people. We can't be surprised when this stuff bites us in the ass. Maybe someday we will be able to say that realpolitik involves negotiating with Russians, not seeking to undermine/dominate them in their own backyard. To come full circle - I have zero hope that would happen under Hillary.
This is taking on a whole new life of its own and you'll be hard pressed to convince me (not that you need to) that the US should not support the western gov't of the Ukraine against the separatists, who in my mind, are trying to take Ukrainian land and Ukrainian ports and realign those provinces with Russia. If Putin manages to secure the entire port region or anywhere that the Russian language is predominate, it will isolate the Ukraine from its sea ports and be financially devastating to them. They could become a financial ward of Europe.
Do I think the US's motives are altruistic? Of course not. In this case, I'm concerned with the ends, not the why. And you're right, Obama's policy is an extension of the official US policy that has been in place since the cold war. Support the Ukraine over Russia. It's the same policy in Poland too. I'm not against it. Perhaps one day we can really have a collaborative relationship with Russia, but today the ex-KGB Putin is the problem, not Obama or the state department. He continues to exert a foreign policy bent on expanding Russia's sphere of influence. We can't let that go unchecked. And yes Holodomor happened 85 years ago, but it still matters to me and to those in the communities in Cleveland, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. That's our parents and grandparents.
Thank you sir. I don't agree with your approach on some things, and don't support your candidate, but you are informed and I learn from your posts...def something to be said for that. two more things I want to say - in no way did I mean to downplay the holodomor. One of the great horrors of modern times. Was only pointing out that despite its importance to Ukrainians, I don't think it is much of a factor to the US government 85 years after the fact.
Second....i don't see Putin's foreign policy as expansionist. His move into Crimea was reactionary, meant to protect the Black Sea fleet - his hand was forced. That was a result of the coup...opportunist or not, it wouldn't have happened if the US wasn't behind the new government.
I disagree with your second point. You are painting Putin in the best possible light. Putin has strong authoritarian tendencies and I think, would love to re-establish the Soviet bloc. He has to be checked at every stage. I didn't think you were downplaying Holodomor per se. But you have to understand why Ukrainian Nationals do not trust the Russians. Stalin killed more Ukrainians than Hitler killed Jews according to many. So there is a centuries old distrust of the Russian Bear. Whether they are interfering in politics, taking land or shipping arms across the border, it feels like more of the same.
He'll need a 20 point swing from today. That will be challenging. NY is an important state. It appears to be the final stand and both candidates are treating it that way.
That's a ridiculous statement and it comes from a childish sentiment.
I only know 1 person who has been to.a Bernie rally, she's been to 2 actually. She is an RN who works full time at an Akron hospital, both rallies were held in the daytime.
That's a ridiculous statement and it comes from a childish sentiment.
I only know 1 person who has been to.a Bernie rally, she's been to 2 actually. She is an RN who works full time at an Akron hospital, both rallies were held in the daytime.
It was a joke, which is why I immediately edited. I knew it would not be taken well.
I apologize, I am in a shitty mood and I shouldn't be posting at all.
All good, all friends. Hope you have a better day.
Ha! Just watched that the other day, maybe I will pop it in the DVD player, the boy likes animation but without music it doesn't hold his attention for long.
I apologize, I am in a shitty mood and I shouldn't be posting at all.
All good, all friends. Hope you have a better day.
Ha! Just watched that the other day, maybe I will pop it in the DVD player, the boy likes animation but without music it doesn't hold his attention for long.
Comments
So when the bird went to give Bernie message I was pretty much sold. I'm not very spiritual but thinking Mother Nature endorsed Bernie at that point. Was also great to see him smile.
And you are in no position to call someone a fool.
- I helped create the superdelegate system in 1982 to prevent another McGovern like candidate
- I ran the 2 campaigns for Viktor Yanukovich. Don't know who that is? Well let's just say his Putin puppet gov't led to the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine, an area that is fully destabilized today. My friend MRussel1 has lots of relative in the Ukraine, suffering. Oh yeah, he's wanted by Interpol for corruption and the deaths of over 70 protesters. No worry, he's hiding in Russia.
- I worked for Winston and Strawn LLP before this gig. My firm represents Verizon, Pfizer, Phillip Morris (got a smoke?) and yes.... MONSANTO!!
- I ran the campaigns for Jon Corzine. You remember Jon, right? Deposed CEO of Goldman Sachs... corrupt senator of NJ..
- I ran the campaign for Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, exiled leader of Bolivia who is wanted for a gov't massacre of protesters.
- I make 800k per month now. It was 400k, but my employer is doing so well, he raised my salary.
Who am I? I'M TED DEVINE, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR BERNIE SANDERS!
See? Isn't six degrees fun? MONSANTO!
Have to wonder how you then reconcile the state department's role in engineering Ukraine's euromaidan under Hillary's resident neo-con appointee Victoria Nuland, whose resume includes positions in Bill Clinton's admin, foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, and now assistant secretary of state....and who is wife of PNAC founder and Brookings Institution commentator - mr.neo con himself and Hillary endorser - Robert Kagan. And the role of the Clinton Foundation in receiving funding from Ukrainian oligarchs and training government replacements. Brazen regime change on Russia's border.
Just more realpolitik and opportunism? nothing to do with empire building....right?
But in general, I'm not sure if I'm following your point. If your question is whether the State Department engineered the second Orange Revolution in 2013.. I don't know that to be true. I do know that Hillary wasn't Secy of State during the second major rounds of protest, and the proxy 'conflict' that has occurred between the US and Russia. Can you rephrase your question?
There is zero doubt that the state department engineered the recent events in Ukraine. It's evidenced in the recorded phone calls, the money trails from NGO's (including the Clinton foundation) to and from Ukraine, and the post revolution Ukraine cabinet appointments that aligned with both the calls and the money trails...
Happy to see you at least admit she is more hawkish than you'd like. Maybe if she wins, supporters like you can be effective in pushing for accountability when this kind of shit continues - hopefully without making excuses for her about the realities of the position she's in. (I'm not sure what you mean by 'not every country is pro-peace'...it's not like the US had it's hand forced in pushing for a puppet government in Ukraine - it's been a bi-partisan goal for years).
As for Sanders, I don't like his foreign policy either. I hardly think he is too dovish. As it pertains to military endeavors, his voting record is not all that different from Hillary's, and he has done/said little to convince me he would change the US imperialist agenda. If he were to come out on top, I have no doubt that the democrat version of imperialism would continue - humanitarian war, and more of the record foreign arms sales we've seen under Obama (arms used by allies to achieve US policy goals). The way I see it, there are no true anti-war candidates on either side of the aisle.
The west has sought for years to pull the Ukraine away from the Russian orbit and into the western world, now the EU. By contrast, Russia is aggressively funding its pro-Russian forces in the Ukraine. They don't even deny the fact that they are arming them. So I would not be a proponent of a 'hands off' policy in the Ukraine for the United States. Do I support going in with ground troops? No, of course not. But I would not want our foreign policy to be hands off when the Russians are clearly so hands on and pulling them east to Moscow. Our support of Yushchenko was correct, both under the Bush and Obama administration.
This is realpolitick. We can't just sit back and let the Ukraine be a puppet state to the Russians. Many may disagree on this board.
Do you think the US government would give a shit about Holodomor (which happened nearly a century ago) and any injustices laid upon the Ukrainian people since, if it was not a strategic benefit to hand the Russians a civil war entanglement in a region that houses their black sea fleet – the one that arms Assad in Syria, to gain influence over Russia’s main breadbasket region, to take over a major energy corridor to Europe etc….? THAT is why a Russian puppet regime is unacceptable to the US, not for any sympathetic reason. Eastern Ukraine has a majority of Russian speakers and has always been culturally closer to Russia than Europe. The pull into the European sphere of influence is a NATO encirclement initiative…saying the sought after influence would fall with the EU is contradicted by Nuland’s infamous ‘fuck the EU’ statement…the US pulls NATO’s strings, period.
Ukraine’s history with the Soviets was no doubt a major driving force behind an alignment with the Nazis that still resonates today, with a number of real-life Nazis assigned important cabinet postings in the new government….by taking a ‘hands on’ approach, the US has found themselves aligned with these people....not all that different from the way the US finds itself aligned with extremists in the middle east as a 'realpolitik' way to make friends and influence people. We can't be surprised when this stuff bites us in the ass.
Maybe someday we will be able to say that realpolitik involves negotiating with Russians, not seeking to undermine/dominate them in their own backyard. To come full circle - I have zero hope that would happen under Hillary.
Do I think the US's motives are altruistic? Of course not. In this case, I'm concerned with the ends, not the why. And you're right, Obama's policy is an extension of the official US policy that has been in place since the cold war. Support the Ukraine over Russia. It's the same policy in Poland too. I'm not against it. Perhaps one day we can really have a collaborative relationship with Russia, but today the ex-KGB Putin is the problem, not Obama or the state department. He continues to exert a foreign policy bent on expanding Russia's sphere of influence. We can't let that go unchecked. And yes Holodomor happened 85 years ago, but it still matters to me and to those in the communities in Cleveland, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc. That's our parents and grandparents.
two more things I want to say - in no way did I mean to downplay the holodomor. One of the great horrors of modern times. Was only pointing out that despite its importance to Ukrainians, I don't think it is much of a factor to the US government 85 years after the fact.
Second....i don't see Putin's foreign policy as expansionist. His move into Crimea was reactionary, meant to protect the Black Sea fleet - his hand was forced. That was a result of the coup...opportunist or not, it wouldn't have happened if the US wasn't behind the new government.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/sanderss-bronx-rally-should-concern-clinton.html#
I only know 1 person who has been to.a Bernie rally, she's been to 2 actually. She is an RN who works full time at an Akron hospital, both rallies were held in the daytime.
Nervous Pervous
How a criminal indictment could affect Hillary Clinton's run for U.S. presidency
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/clinton-email-indictment-1.3515080