San Bernardino Shootings Kill 14

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

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PP193448 said:

Wonder how many of these crazy fuckers who shoot people played with fake guns as children or played PS or Xbox shoot em up video games... Wonder if all those sensational murder/war games help create more peaceful respectful law biding individuals??? Have you seen some of these crazy games?? Holy shit...why the hell would you ever let your kids play that stuff.

I get what your saying.
There is no doubt Americans go big or go home.
Their movie industry simply is a model the world has to follow in order to be screened.
Video games are no longer super Mario stomping on a mushroom.
It is hard to put a finger on why the violent culture is portrayed so much in American movies and games yet we oppose it everywhere else.
America spits these movies and games out like candy.
The rest of the world is not liking the take.

It's just sad. Really hard to try to keep kids sheltered from the violence in the mainstream, at least here in the US.

RKCNDY said:

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PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

And she probably never would have done it if it hadn't been for her American-born husband. She was probably totally normal before she came to America and got all fucked up!

Yah. She's awesome. It's all the American's fault.

Is this what you're saying? Seems like it (reading between the lines that is seemingly acceptable for the moment).

It was a tongue in cheek comment (certainly not about her being awesome, obviously). I have no clue what she was up to before she married an American and moved to California. All I know is that thst's what she did and then went with him and helped killed his co-workers. It's pretty safe to assume the American man was the leader here.

why the American? His co-workers said he was quiet and never started conversations but was well liked. Perhaps he didn't feel included-can we say outcast? So he goes and finds a lady on the internet...are there not any appropriate females here in the US? So she shows him love and adoration, he is smitten, but she has another agenda because secretly she is anti-American. He brings her here, she has him under her spell and he will do anything for her because for the first time in his life someone makes him feel accepted and loved.

i'm playing devil's advocate here...just looking at all sides.

I never said that wasn't possible. It was an assumption I was making, as I said ... I'm actually not thinking it was most likely the guy because he's American. I'm thinking it because he's a man. Women so very rarely act like that. The real gun violence issue is the fact that very close to all of it is committed by men, especially mass shootings. It would be such an anomaly for woman to mastermind that, so it is just more logical to suspect the man as being the catalyst. Plus, he's the one who recently traveled to the Middle East again for some unknown reason before going on this rampage, and he's the one who was communicating with someone suspected of terrorist activity. It was his co-workers, his dispute at a party, etc. Meanwhile, his wife has apparently recently had a baby, so it's also probably safe to assume that she's been taking care of the baby, and she was pregnant before that.... she just doesn't seem like the likely candidate for ringleader!

BS44325 said:

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oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

You're opposed to gun control even though countries with fewer firearms and more firearms restrictions have far fewer gun-related homicides yet you have no problem with profiling Muslims to prevent terrorism despite the fact that terrorist attacks are generally a rare occurrence. That's quite the double standard!

BS44325 said:

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Halifax2TheMax said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Your singular agenda is grotesque. What shouldn't be "accepted as just part of life," is the unfettered access to firearms in MY country and the resulting carnage day in and day out. You truly are warped. Of all the mass shootings in the US in the past 30 years, what percentage were committed by Muslim extremists? And despite someone posting evidence as such, your focus is on the less than 1%! You're part of the fucking problem from your perch of safety in Oh Canada. You have no business lecturing US about radical Islam or gun control or the lack thereof! Come down of your high horse and stop looking down your fucking nose. Still waiting for the Oh Canada law links, professor.

This is the diatribe of a man losing an argument. I ask you for the last time...what law should be passed to reduce "the unfettered access to firearms in your country"?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a response.

I will bite. There are only a few components missing to make our gun laws better.

Full background checks (including medical history, if you are on antidepressants or antipsychotics, too bad so sad) for EVERY gun purchase, a firearm registry, and mandatory minimum sentencing for all gun related crime, including illegal sales.

Violence can never be eliminated, and events like this will never be entirely preventable, but these measures would reduce gun violence significantly.

blueandwhite said:

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BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

You're opposed to gun control even though countries with fewer firearms and more firearms restrictions have far fewer gun-related homicides yet you have no problem with profiling Muslims to prevent terrorism despite the fact that terrorist attacks are generally a rare occurrence. That's quite the double standard!

Who said I am opposed to gun control? Who said I am for profiling Muslims? Are we reading between the lines again? It is amazing how emotion gets the best of so many of you. Solutions should be based on unemotional look at the data and in the US the data does not back you up. I already linked to a Washington Post article detailing this and here is another link that summarizes it:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/washington-post-gun-violence-declining-except-gun-free-zones/

Gun ownership in the US is up but gun violence as a whole is down. Mass shootings are definitely up but not everywhere. We need to ask ourselves why without knee jerk responses and without accusing people of being against gun control. Every incident has it's own specific causes and you cannot treat them all the same. This case is due radical Islamism and should and it is my belief that there is not a single gun law you could pass that would have prevented it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at gun laws for other reasons but in the case it is a whole different ball game. These are not all the same.

rgambs said:

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BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Your singular agenda is grotesque. What shouldn't be "accepted as just part of life," is the unfettered access to firearms in MY country and the resulting carnage day in and day out. You truly are warped. Of all the mass shootings in the US in the past 30 years, what percentage were committed by Muslim extremists? And despite someone posting evidence as such, your focus is on the less than 1%! You're part of the fucking problem from your perch of safety in Oh Canada. You have no business lecturing US about radical Islam or gun control or the lack thereof! Come down of your high horse and stop looking down your fucking nose. Still waiting for the Oh Canada law links, professor.

This is the diatribe of a man losing an argument. I ask you for the last time...what law should be passed to reduce "the unfettered access to firearms in your country"?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a response.

I will bite. There are only a few components missing to make our gun laws better.

Full background checks (including medical history, if you are on antidepressants or antipsychotics, too bad so sad) for EVERY gun purchase, a firearm registry, and mandatory minimum sentencing for all gun related crime, including illegal sales.

Violence can never be eliminated, and events like this will never be entirely preventable, but these measures would reduce gun violence significantly.

To add a few items:

Licensed people can only buy ammunition.

Licensed dealers (guns and ammunition).

Moratorium on assault rifle sales.

Moratorium on handgun sales (make purchasing a handgun a thorough task).

* These things and others will never happen. Too many people profiting from the gun industry that seek to preserve their way of life and deflect their portion of responsibility to other factors.

Active "gang-busting" task forces by law enforcement.

Increase scope of the NICS currently in use to cover private sales.

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).