9 Dead in Shooting at Black Church in SC

I really do admire their determination to stop the hatred in it's tracks! Hatred walked out of Charleston with this sick fucker, I hope it lasts as long as possible.

this is the operating definition I believe these folks are working from. while it may also stem from religious conviction , it doesn't negate this possibility.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/forgiveness/definition

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

A strong community will always love and support each other in times of sorrow. That is its job. I certainly won't suggest what kind of coping method people should have but articles like this make me even more stoic in my belief that this religious coping method is wrong.
"My family forgive you but we would like to take this opportunity to repent, to confess and give your life to the one who matters the most, Christ," said the family of Myra Thompson, 59. "Do that and you’ll be OK."
come on, really?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11687976/Charleston-church-massacre-suspect-They-were-so-kind-I-almost-stopped.html


The fog is heavy in their mourning minds. You can't possible forgive this in such a short period of time. Impossible.
Jon Stewart nailed it when he said something to the effect of "We will do jack shit about this"

Forgive and move on.
Whatever.

note the last part of this article

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/topic/forgiveness/definition#how_to_cultivate

ldent42 said:

Exactly, and responding to him with "forgiveness" which is generally speaking (and from what I can understand biblically speaking) an act of "love" is like the ultimate defiant gesture. Remember, fire cannot be fought with fire, it must be fought with water - likewise fighting hate with hate or anger is pointless, the only cure (counterbalance) to hate, is love

So how come, even after they welcomed him to their bible study with open arms and treated him so nicely, did he still decide to gun them all down? That didn't stop him, did it? He had a whole hour to change his mind. A whole hour in their presence to feel their warmth and to see the kind of big hearted and loving people for who they were. Apparently he nearly didn't go through with it because they were so nice to him. But in the end that didn't stop him. In fact, when he was walking away after the murders, he was overheard using racial epitaphs by one or more of the survivors. He was still consumed with hatred and racism.

So your above comments, which sound nice, just don't ring true. It's a nice thought that only love can conquer hate and you can't fight fire with fire, but in my opinion it's a bunch of hippie bullshit. Bible prayer bullshit. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Sometimes you have to stand up and confront evil head on. These people should be angry. And they have every right to be angry. Not just for the cold blooded murder of their family members, but for the entire history of black people in that country and the fact that this amount of hate and racism still exists for them to this day and age. What more do they have to endure? And to add insult to injury, they still fly the Confederate flag in their faces. They shouldn't be asking that the flag come down- they should March right up to it and rip it down themselves. And then burn it.

Wow, after this comment, I'm out of this. I'm taking at least a day, if not more, of a media blackout from this subject because I can't stand another minute of this nation's judgment of a group of people whom they nothing about. Other than this forum, I have followed this story _exclusively_ through Charleston's local news channels and trusted friends' feeds who actually live in and know Charleston. On each and every social media outlet there are nitwits nationwide dialing in. And now here, we have people saying that a grieving family member should abandon their religion because they have been brainwashed or they are delusional because they are not feeling the correct emotions. I just can't believe this. Sure, all of you have a right to your opinion. And as soon as one of your family members is shot dead, I will be sure to share my opinion about the correct way for you to deal with it.
God love Charleston. Yes, I said God. It's not nicknamed "The Holy City" for nothing. There are black and white people all over that city coming together because the one thing they do share in common is their faith. If that's what will bring them together, then so be it. What's the alternative? Burning the place down? The fact is that blacks will not destroy their beautiful city because the black people in that city LOVE IT just as much as the white people do. They take pride in what they know their ancestors built, albeit under horrific historical circumstances. The beauty of it is evident everywhere, and even white people appreciate the cultural significance of their contributions. They are celebrated. The media -- CNN, Fox, MSNBC -- will not tell you that, but ask any local of any color and you will hear it.
Yes, the city and the state is FULL of CONTRADICTIONS. We know all about the flags and the streets named for generals. Many of the streets in Charleston are also named after founding families, i.e., plantation owners, but guess what? BLACK PEOPLE share those same last names. The city of full of them. We know why, they know why. Thank you all very much for your attempts to enlighten the south about its racism, but both black and white Charlestonians know very well how complicated their history is together. They don't need your help -- and quite frankly, most of them DON'T WANT IT!!!!!
One thing I am very grateful for . . . I'm glad I had the opportunity to spend five years of my life teaching in an all black high school in Charleston, South Carolina. Without that experience, I would never understand race in the south the way I understand it now. I would never even have come to understood my own struggles with racism that I thought didn't exist until I was forced everyday to confront my own inadequacies in that area. You see, the most important lesson I learned is that it was really easy for me to come out of my literal ivory tower thinking I knew everything because I had read a few books in college. I knew nothing. Those of you passing judgment would do well to get out of your own segregated neighborhoods and live and work with people who are dramatically different than you are. You might become a little more forgiving.

callen said:

what dreams said:

Many of the streets in Charleston are also named after founding families, i.e., plantation owners, but guess what? BLACK PEOPLE share those same last names.

Share?!? Bestowed upon them as slaves. Think if I were black id sure as hell change my last name if it was Jackson.

I haven't signed off yet, Callen. Like I said and you must have missed it . . . black people know how they got their last names. Pinckney is one of them. He didn't change it. He ran on it and became a state senator.
There are no prominent Jacksons in Charleston. An outsider wouldn't know that. Give it up.

what dreams said:

Those of you passing judgment would do well to get out of your own segregated neighborhoods and live and work with people who are dramatically different than you are. You might become a little more forgiving.

Have done so. I grew up in a white suburban neighborhood but later as a young adult I lived in a high rise complex for a year with 90% African American occupancy. I also worked for a year in a Job Corps center where most of the kids there were black kids. Sorry, those experiences did not make me any more forgiving of acts of domestic terrorism and racial hatred. Not in the least. Why would they?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Just like any animal on this planet... I'd defend my family to a death (mine or the assailant's).

If a mushroom headed mutant went and randomly murdered one of my family members for shits and giggles... well... let's just say of all the things I would be thinking of doing... I wouldn't be thinking about 'forgiving him'. Pain I couldn't imagine.

The judge shouldn't have been talking about this creep's parents as victims. He should have been questioning the degree to which they are complicit in this event with their negligent parenting efforts.

Like teaching your children that killing is a solution to a problem? Be careful about your witch hunting.