Police abuse

Drowned Out · June 2015

dignin said:
Great posts Drowned. But just because I'm interested in this story of abuse, doesn't mean I am (or others for that matter) are ignoring any other events going on in the world.

I know man! like i said....a generalized rant. Maybe a little ironic considering it was a rant against generalizations regarding our uniformed friends....?

Edit: you're prob talking more about my first post than the rant...in that post I mentioned my belief that those questioning authority are generally more informed about current events...so you're all good in my books! Just trying to get people to think a bit about what they're being fed and why, as opposed to the story itself.
Just heard a quote today, believe it's from Eleanor Roosevelt....something like: Intellectuals talk about ideas. Average people talk about events. Stupid people talk about people.
There are ideas to discuss related to this event...but I think this particular story, and the people involved in it, degrade discussion of the ideas by being a poor precursor to, or example of, the ideas....if that makes any sense? Had the quote thrown at me after mildly trash talking someone; im as stupid as the next guy...so I'll get off my high horse now

cwja · June 2015

Important work being done here on this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Crowd sourced effort to track and document everyone killed by the police in the US. To this point there has never been an accurate compilation of these incidents. For example, the official FBI statistics for last year claim that 461 people died as a result of police actions. Today, just over the halfway point of the year, we hit 500.

The only way we will get accurate numbers is if we do it ourselves. Most of these cases are only reported locally. If you see something in your local area, shoot a link to the article or a summation of any info you have to them. Tips can be sent using various forms of social media or email.

oftenreading · June 2015

Drowned Out said:

oftenreading said:

Drowned Out said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
This is an event that just happened up here.
The striking comment that got me was that "This morning a Woman woke up without a husband and children woke up without their father."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suspect-in-fatal-edmonton-police-shooting-accused-of-hate-crime-1.2413122
Police never know where a mundane call will lead. So if force is necessary in the officers mind to control their individual situation so be it. I can't imagine being this Police officers partner and surviving.

We give Police the right to exercise their judgement because it is something we won't do. It is quite shocking how some on this thread have a disdain for police all round. Much like the out of control free speeched punks in the video.

So this is not me quick to a Police officers defence it is me stating that I respect police and they at the core are human like us.

They happen to do a job that requires unlimited liability every shift they take. So the roughness those kids got - so be it.

There was a thread that got closed, it was called "What is AMT for"? I don't remember who started it but it was a good thread. At times this place is too-anti authority which is deterring for many who may want to post in AMT.

edit - and yes I am aware of this http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-police-officer-resigns-amid-pool-party-video-outrage-1.2413260
I disagree. I think this place has a healthy amount of anti-authority sentiment; something that I think can be correlated to being informed about current events.
This is as good a place as any to rant about something that has been bugging me since this cop was shot in Edmonton the other day. I realize there is a segment of people that are overly critical about police - who disrespect them and find excuses for undue criticism. But the people with this attitude are dwarfed in numbers by those who hold cops in the highest esteem, and defend their actions based on the fact that they're 'heroes', or because they're doing a tough/thankless job. We have a few here.
These are the ten deadliest jobs in Canada (its basically the same 10 in a different order in the US) :
1. Loggers: falling trees, cutting equipment.
2. Fisheries workers: drowning, heavy equipment.
3. Pilots and flight engineers: air disturbances, high altitudes, takeoffs and landings.
4. Roofers: falling from heights, heat stroke in summer.
5. Structural iron and steel workers: falling from heights, heavy materials, welding.
6. Garbage and recyclables collectors: hazardous materials, heavy equipment, road accidents.
7. Electrical power line installers and repairers: electricity, falling from heights.
8. Truck drivers and mobile sales workers: road accidents, exhaustion.
9. Farmers, ranchers, agricultural managers: heavy equipment, large animals.
10. Construction workers: dangerous equipment and large animals.

No cops, no firefighters. In fact, firefighters have one of the safest jobs out there - Firefighters die at a rate of 2.5 per 100,000 workers, which is slightly above the rate for cashiers (1.6). And those stats include 9/11...hopefully a once-in a lifetime anomaly. Police officers die on the job at the rate of 18.6 per 100,000 (american figures - I would expect that canadian numbers are WAY lower for police deaths). Loggers are around 128/100k. Now before you start in on pay for cops, consider that loggers make about 25k/yr, and don't get a pension anywhere near what a cop does. Firefighters are generally very, very well paid, with awesome pensions.
So where is the love and respect and hero worship for the people who provide our food, pick up our trash, provide us power and cheap goods and put roofs over our heads? A kid (well, 23) died on a construction site in Edmonton a couple years back...it was settled in court the other day - $275k fine and no charges laid. Barely mentioned in the news. I know there is an intent factor to consider that makes a shooting more tragic (thus a better sell for news outlets). But deaths in the above listed fields happen monthly (or more) in alberta, with very little fanfare. A cop gets shot on the job - the first time in 25 years in our city, and there is non-stop news coverage from every outlet, nationwide, for a week. Then memorials erected, memorial funds created, streets and parks renamed, and countless interviews with teary-eyed strangers calling the guy a hero. Maybe dying while doing his job did make him a hero.... but I don't think he is really much more of a hero than anyone else who dies doing their job. Not to the extent of the imbalance in respect shown. All of our jobs serve a function in society. Most, anyway.
We over-value some people, and under-value others. I dont' think a cop (or any other profession), deserves any more respect than a cashier, unless it's earned thru their actions. I think this comes full circle to the masses being TOO conformist to authority....there are a lot of people who put first responders and the military on a pedestal solely because of they have the cliches I mentioned above stuck in their heads at all time: they're keeping us safe / doing a thankless job / real heroes etc. This mindset of unconditional admiration of those with the ability to control us (including the politicians we side with and the billionaires we aspire to become) contributes to a militarized, fall-in-line society; one that is apathetic and resistant to change....because rocking the boat means upsetting authority. Just another symptom of lack of critical thinking and ability to grasp nuance. Giving respect to anyone based on their title alone is ridiculous.
Thanks Drowned Out for this post. I have been thinking along the same lines but never put the thought into it to get it in a coherent post. A whole host of professions do hard, dangerous, and important work that doesn't get recognized and lauded in the way that police and similar professions do. You've mentioned some in your list above (although I may quibble about the importance to society of one of two of those) . I'd add nurses and other allied health professionals who, day in and day out, deal with abusive and ungrateful patients, putting themselves at risk of being assaulted and well as the risks involved with infectious diseases. This doesn't mean the policing isn't challenging and necessary, just that it should not be viewed as so challenging and necessary by definition that its practices can't be critiqued.
I'm curious which you think aren't important to society?
I don't think there is any career on that list that could be eliminated without a complete overhaul of society - including firefighters and cops (not that an overhaul would be a bad thing - I'm talking status quo).

Sorry to derail this thread even more, but it was the "mobile sales workers" I was thinking of. Like many things in life, that may be more due to my ignorance of what that means. They've broken out truck drivers, so it doesn't seem to mean delivery people. Is this people driving around selling stuff? If so, I would contend we could probably do without some portion of them, since our roads are choked, our air quality is poor, and we are already drowning in stuff.

Halifax2TheMax · June 2015

Race matters. Until it doesn't, I'll go away.

Peace.

dignin · June 2015

Drowned Out said:

dignin said:
Great posts Drowned. But just because I'm interested in this story of abuse, doesn't mean I am (or others for that matter) are ignoring any other events going on in the world.

I know man! like i said....a generalized rant. Maybe a little ironic considering it was a rant against generalizations regarding our uniformed friends....?

Edit: you're prob talking more about my first post than the rant...in that post I mentioned my belief that those questioning authority are generally more informed about current events...so you're all good in my books! Just trying to get people to think a bit about what they're being fed and why, as opposed to the story itself.
Just heard a quote today, believe it's from Eleanor Roosevelt....something like: Intellectuals talk about ideas. Average people talk about events. Stupid people talk about people.
There are ideas to discuss related to this event...but I think this particular story, and the people involved in it, degrade discussion of the ideas by being a poor precursor to, or example of, the ideas....if that makes any sense? Had the quote thrown at me after mildly trash talking someone; im as stupid as the next guy...so I'll get off my high horse now

Hey man, I'm with you 100% and you make perfect sense. And I like that quote,

dignin · June 2015

cwja said:
Important work being done here on this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Crowd sourced effort to track and document everyone killed by the police in the US. To this point there has never been an accurate compilation of these incidents. For example, the official FBI statistics for last year claim that 461 people died as a result of police actions. Today, just over the halfway point of the year, we hit 500.

The only way we will get accurate numbers is if we do it ourselves. Most of these cases are only reported locally. If you see something in your local area, shoot a link to the article or a summation of any info you have to them. Tips can be sent using various forms of social media or email.

Thanks for bringing this up. I heard an interview with the creator of this project a few months back on CBC Radio. Very interesting and important work.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2015

cwja said:
Important work being done here on this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Crowd sourced effort to track and document everyone killed by the police in the US. To this point there has never been an accurate compilation of these incidents. For example, the official FBI statistics for last year claim that 461 people died as a result of police actions. Today, just over the halfway point of the year, we hit 500.

The only way we will get accurate numbers is if we do it ourselves. Most of these cases are only reported locally. If you see something in your local area, shoot a link to the article or a summation of any info you have to them. Tips can be sent using various forms of social media or email.

1. Let's not pretend that every one of these killings is a reflection of shoddy police work. Much of this reflects solid police work- don't forget the work they do.

2. The demographics are interesting. According to The Guardian... of the 500 people killed in the US:

248 are white (63% of the population)
141 are black (12%)
74 are Hispanic/Latino (16%)
23 are other/unknown
10 are Asian/Pacific Islander (5%)
4 are Native American (0.7%)
* Population percentages source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Proportionate to the population... with 500 deaths, the number of deaths for each category should look as follows:
Whites 315 (248 actual)
Blacks 60 (141 actual)
Hispanic/Latino 80 (74 actual)
Asian/Pacific Islander 25 (10 actual)
Native American 3.5 (4 actual)

Without question, the black population is the most disproportionately killed compared to other demographic groups. As disproportionate as it is... I thought the level of discrimination was much higher.

badbrains · June 2015

Are there any cops on the forums who can actually give us some insight. The resident Walker, Texas Ranger just doesn't cut for me as a representative for our men in blue.

cwja · June 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cwja said:
Important work being done here on this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Crowd sourced effort to track and document everyone killed by the police in the US. To this point there has never been an accurate compilation of these incidents. For example, the official FBI statistics for last year claim that 461 people died as a result of police actions. Today, just over the halfway point of the year, we hit 500.

The only way we will get accurate numbers is if we do it ourselves. Most of these cases are only reported locally. If you see something in your local area, shoot a link to the article or a summation of any info you have to them. Tips can be sent using various forms of social media or email.
1. Let's not pretend that every one of these killings is a reflection of shoddy police work. Much of this reflects solid police work- don't forget the work they do.

2. The demographics are interesting. According to The Guardian... of the 500 people killed in the US:

248 are white (63% of the population)
141 are black (12%)
74 are Hispanic/Latino (16%)
23 are other/unknown
10 are Asian/Pacific Islander (5%)
4 are Native American (0.7%)
* Population percentages source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Proportionate to the population... with 500 deaths, the number of deaths for each category should look as follows:
Whites 315 (248 actual)
Blacks 60 (141 actual)
Hispanic/Latino 80 (74 actual)
Asian/Pacific Islander 25 (10 actual)
Native American 3.5 (4 actual)

Without question, the black population is the most disproportionately killed compared to other demographic groups. As disproportionate as it is... I thought the level of discrimination was much higher.

Yes, the vast majority of them are the result of the police doing their job properly, but, until now, there has never been an accurate compilation of even those numbers. While not telling us the whole story, numbers can point us in the direction of things that need closer examination.

1/5 of them were unarmed and minorities make up almost 2/3 of those. Some states, like OK, seem to have a much higher rate than their population and crime rates suggest should be expected. The US far outpaces other similar countries in these types of deaths.

These are just some of the trends that become evident when you examine the data. Are they anomalies reflective of a relatively small sample size or an accurate representation of what is happening? More data can lead to a more accurate indication of what issues there are and what solutions we can implement.

Halifax2TheMax · June 2015

And some wonder why they rioted in Baltimore?

http://harpers.org/archive/2015/07/bleakness-stakes/

Halifax2TheMax · June 2015

Sorry but you might not be able to read the compilation without a paid subscription. If I can cut and paste it later, I will.

dignin · June 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
Sorry but you might not be able to read the compilation without a paid subscription. If I can cut and paste it later, I will.

No money, no read!

Halifax2TheMax · June 2015

Baltimore has paid six million dollars since 2011 to settle police brutality claims. Most that we're listed in the summary compilation were $100K or below, which leads to the question of how many in total does the $6MM represent? The descriptions of what transpired between the cops and innocent citizens are outrageous. If I can cut and past, I will. Can't do it on my tablet. Maybe I can link to the original article in the Baltimore Sun as that is where the descriptions originally came from.

This link contains the original article the previous link in Harper's credited.

http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/police-settlements/

dignin · June 2015

oops, more than a few bad apples here.

SANTA ANA OFFICERS CAUGHT ON CAMERA EATING EDIBLES, JOKING ABOUT KICKING AMPUTEE IN 'NUB', ATTORNEY SAYS

http://abc7.com/news/santa-ana-officers-caught-on-camera-eating-edibles-attorney-says/779490/

oftenreading · June 2015

So obviously the police have their supporters, although some of them, like this teacher, are probably not doing the cause any favours.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/11/im_almost_to_the_point_of_wanting_them_all_segregated_texas_teacher_pens_breathtakingly_racist_mckinney_post/

rgambs · June 2015

oftenreading said:
So obviously the police have their supporters, although some of them, like this teacher, are probably not doing the cause any favours.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/11/im_almost_to_the_point_of_wanting_them_all_segregated_texas_teacher_pens_breathtakingly_racist_mckinney_post/

It doesn't surprise me that a Texas school board didn't take action on this...I sure wouldn't want this lady teaching my kids!

Cliffy6745 · June 2015

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/after-freddie-gray-death-west-baltimores-police-presence-drops-and-murders-soar.html

JimmyV · June 2015

Cliffy6745 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/after-freddie-gray-death-west-baltimores-police-presence-drops-and-murders-soar.html

55 murders since May 1st, 13 in the first 11 days of June alone, and the police are surrounded by cell phone cameras at every turn.

Months after the media was criticized for its coverage of the burning CVS, the drug trade in Baltimore is overstocked from the looting of pharmacies. Seems like it might have been newsworthy.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2015

Cliffy6745 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/after-freddie-gray-death-west-baltimores-police-presence-drops-and-murders-soar.html

A pretty bleak reality to say the least.

gimmesometruth27 · June 2015

well, since the cops aren't doing their job there anymore, someone has to do the murderin', right?

Police abuse

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