Police abuse

rgambs · June 2015

Also, I don't think it is coincidence at all that the 1 dickhead is the one being filmed. If you were a bystander who would you fill, the one ranting and raving or one of the 11 being reasonable?

JimmyV · June 2015

rgambs said:

JimmyV said:

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
This is an event that just happened up here.
The striking comment that got me was that "This morning a Woman woke up without a husband and children woke up without their father."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suspect-in-fatal-edmonton-police-shooting-accused-of-hate-crime-1.2413122
Police never know where a mundane call will lead. So if force is necessary in the officers mind to control their individual situation so be it. I can't imagine being this Police officers partner and surviving.

We give Police the right to exercise their judgement because it is something we won't do. It is quite shocking how some on this thread have a disdain for police all round. Much like the out of control free speeched punks in the video.

So this is not me quick to a Police officers defence it is me stating that I respect police and they at the core are human like us.

They happen to do a job that requires unlimited liability every shift they take. So the roughness those kids got - so be it.

There was a thread that got closed, it was called "What is AMT for"? I don't remember who started it but it was a good thread. At times this place is too-anti authority which is deterring for many who may want to post in AMT.

edit - and yes I am aware of this http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-police-officer-resigns-amid-pool-party-video-outrage-1.2413260

Interesting that even his police chief thinks he was out of control, but here on the AMT he was just doing his job.

Conley said a review of the incident video showed Casebolt's actions were "indefensible," and that "our policies, our training and our practices do not support his actions."

In all, 12 officers responded to the report of fights and a disturbance at the pool party at the Craig Ranch North Community Pool in an affluent area of western McKinney. "Eleven of them performed according to their training," Conley said. Casebolt did not, he said.

"He came into the call out of control and the video showed he was out of control during the incident," Conley said.

A police chief is a political animal. Public pressure is paramount. There's no doubt that Casebolt reacted badly that day, but read between the lines here a little bit. Eleven officers performed according to their training...one did not...and that one happened to be caught on camera. Convenient coincidence there.

While Casebolt is dealing with the girl, two other officers take off after another kid. They return a short time later with him handcuffed and looking a little worse for wear. We don't know what happened because there is no video. If there was I bet this same police chief would be talking about the nine officers that performed according to their training and the three that did not.

Maybe these guys would deserve that. Maybe not. Maybe it would be just another case of a politician reacting to public pressure.

I disagree. I am pretty critical of police behavior and I don't disagree with him drawing his weapon and those two cops chasing the guys who were stepping up at him. They were near to assaulting the officer (which he fully deserved IMO) and that is a different scenario. With that many people around, a physical confrontation is a dangerous escalation.

If there was video of them catching up to him, tackling him, slamming him to the ground, wrestling to handcuff him - all of which likely happened - you can bet there would be claims that the police acted brutally and unjustly. It's par for the course now.

dignin · June 2015

JimmyV said:

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
This is an event that just happened up here.
The striking comment that got me was that "This morning a Woman woke up without a husband and children woke up without their father."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suspect-in-fatal-edmonton-police-shooting-accused-of-hate-crime-1.2413122
Police never know where a mundane call will lead. So if force is necessary in the officers mind to control their individual situation so be it. I can't imagine being this Police officers partner and surviving.

We give Police the right to exercise their judgement because it is something we won't do. It is quite shocking how some on this thread have a disdain for police all round. Much like the out of control free speeched punks in the video.

So this is not me quick to a Police officers defence it is me stating that I respect police and they at the core are human like us.

They happen to do a job that requires unlimited liability every shift they take. So the roughness those kids got - so be it.

There was a thread that got closed, it was called "What is AMT for"? I don't remember who started it but it was a good thread. At times this place is too-anti authority which is deterring for many who may want to post in AMT.

edit - and yes I am aware of this http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-police-officer-resigns-amid-pool-party-video-outrage-1.2413260

Interesting that even his police chief thinks he was out of control, but here on the AMT he was just doing his job.

Conley said a review of the incident video showed Casebolt's actions were "indefensible," and that "our policies, our training and our practices do not support his actions."

In all, 12 officers responded to the report of fights and a disturbance at the pool party at the Craig Ranch North Community Pool in an affluent area of western McKinney. "Eleven of them performed according to their training," Conley said. Casebolt did not, he said.

"He came into the call out of control and the video showed he was out of control during the incident," Conley said.

A police chief is a political animal. Public pressure is paramount. There's no doubt that Casebolt reacted badly that day, but read between the lines here a little bit. Eleven officers performed according to their training...one did not...and that one happened to be caught on camera. Convenient coincidence there.

While Casebolt is dealing with the girl, two other officers take off after another kid. They return a short time later with him handcuffed and looking a little worse for wear. We don't know what happened because there is no video. Because there is no video there is no outrage, justified or not. If there was I bet this same police chief would be talking about the nine officers that performed according to their training and the three that did not.

Maybe these guys would deserve that. Maybe not. Maybe it would be just another case of a politician reacting to public pressure.

I see where you're coming from and that is definitely possible. But I would like to think Conely is just doing the right thing and acknowledging the problem instead of the typical wall of blue defense. It's refreshing to see what I believe is honesty. Call me an optimist.

Halifax2TheMax · June 2015

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

JimmyV said:

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
This is an event that just happened up here.
The striking comment that got me was that "This morning a Woman woke up without a husband and children woke up without their father."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suspect-in-fatal-edmonton-police-shooting-accused-of-hate-crime-1.2413122
Police never know where a mundane call will lead. So if force is necessary in the officers mind to control their individual situation so be it. I can't imagine being this Police officers partner and surviving.

We give Police the right to exercise their judgement because it is something we won't do. It is quite shocking how some on this thread have a disdain for police all round. Much like the out of control free speeched punks in the video.

So this is not me quick to a Police officers defence it is me stating that I respect police and they at the core are human like us.

They happen to do a job that requires unlimited liability every shift they take. So the roughness those kids got - so be it.

There was a thread that got closed, it was called "What is AMT for"? I don't remember who started it but it was a good thread. At times this place is too-anti authority which is deterring for many who may want to post in AMT.

edit - and yes I am aware of this http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-police-officer-resigns-amid-pool-party-video-outrage-1.2413260

Interesting that even his police chief thinks he was out of control, but here on the AMT he was just doing his job.

Conley said a review of the incident video showed Casebolt's actions were "indefensible," and that "our policies, our training and our practices do not support his actions."

In all, 12 officers responded to the report of fights and a disturbance at the pool party at the Craig Ranch North Community Pool in an affluent area of western McKinney. "Eleven of them performed according to their training," Conley said. Casebolt did not, he said.

"He came into the call out of control and the video showed he was out of control during the incident," Conley said.

A police chief is a political animal. Public pressure is paramount. There's no doubt that Casebolt reacted badly that day, but read between the lines here a little bit. Eleven officers performed according to their training...one did not...and that one happened to be caught on camera. Convenient coincidence there.

While Casebolt is dealing with the girl, two other officers take off after another kid. They return a short time later with him handcuffed and looking a little worse for wear. We don't know what happened because there is no video. If there was I bet this same police chief would be talking about the nine officers that performed according to their training and the three that did not.

Maybe these guys would deserve that. Maybe not. Maybe it would be just another case of a politician reacting to public pressure.

I disagree. I am pretty critical of police behavior and I don't disagree with him drawing his weapon and those two cops chasing the guys who were stepping up at him. They were near to assaulting the officer (which he fully deserved IMO) and that is a different scenario. With that many people around, a physical confrontation is a dangerous escalation.
If there was video of them catching up to him, tackling him, slamming him to the ground, wrestling to handcuff him - all of which likely happened - you can bet there would be claims that the police acted brutally and unjustly. It's par for the course now.

Didn't happen like that. I saw the kid who was arrested interviewed on MSNBC. Claims he was bumped by his friend, slipped on the grassy incline toward the officer who then pulled his gun out. Kid freaked and took off running. When he realized it was different cops chasing him, he complied and voluntarily went face down, in the process biting his lip. He thanked those officers for treating him well and said the other cops behavior toward the girl he held down prompted him to come to her aid. He wasn't charged with anything and was released nor does he want to file suit against the police.

Respect is earned, not conferred.

dignin · June 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:

JimmyV said:

rgambs said:

JimmyV said:

dignin said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
This is an event that just happened up here.
The striking comment that got me was that "This morning a Woman woke up without a husband and children woke up without their father."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/suspect-in-fatal-edmonton-police-shooting-accused-of-hate-crime-1.2413122
Police never know where a mundane call will lead. So if force is necessary in the officers mind to control their individual situation so be it. I can't imagine being this Police officers partner and surviving.

We give Police the right to exercise their judgement because it is something we won't do. It is quite shocking how some on this thread have a disdain for police all round. Much like the out of control free speeched punks in the video.

So this is not me quick to a Police officers defence it is me stating that I respect police and they at the core are human like us.

They happen to do a job that requires unlimited liability every shift they take. So the roughness those kids got - so be it.

There was a thread that got closed, it was called "What is AMT for"? I don't remember who started it but it was a good thread. At times this place is too-anti authority which is deterring for many who may want to post in AMT.

edit - and yes I am aware of this http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/texas-police-officer-resigns-amid-pool-party-video-outrage-1.2413260

Interesting that even his police chief thinks he was out of control, but here on the AMT he was just doing his job.

Conley said a review of the incident video showed Casebolt's actions were "indefensible," and that "our policies, our training and our practices do not support his actions."

In all, 12 officers responded to the report of fights and a disturbance at the pool party at the Craig Ranch North Community Pool in an affluent area of western McKinney. "Eleven of them performed according to their training," Conley said. Casebolt did not, he said.

"He came into the call out of control and the video showed he was out of control during the incident," Conley said.

A police chief is a political animal. Public pressure is paramount. There's no doubt that Casebolt reacted badly that day, but read between the lines here a little bit. Eleven officers performed according to their training...one did not...and that one happened to be caught on camera. Convenient coincidence there.

While Casebolt is dealing with the girl, two other officers take off after another kid. They return a short time later with him handcuffed and looking a little worse for wear. We don't know what happened because there is no video. If there was I bet this same police chief would be talking about the nine officers that performed according to their training and the three that did not.

Maybe these guys would deserve that. Maybe not. Maybe it would be just another case of a politician reacting to public pressure.

I disagree. I am pretty critical of police behavior and I don't disagree with him drawing his weapon and those two cops chasing the guys who were stepping up at him. They were near to assaulting the officer (which he fully deserved IMO) and that is a different scenario. With that many people around, a physical confrontation is a dangerous escalation.
If there was video of them catching up to him, tackling him, slamming him to the ground, wrestling to handcuff him - all of which likely happened - you can bet there would be claims that the police acted brutally and unjustly. It's par for the course now.

Didn't happen like that. I saw the kid who was arrested interviewed on MSNBC. Claims he was bumped by his friend, slipped on the grassy incline toward the officer who then pulled his gun out. Kid freaked and took off running. When he realized it was different cops chasing him, he complied and voluntarily went face down, in the process biting his lip. He thanked those officers for treating him well and said the other cops behavior toward the girl he held down prompted him to come to her aid. He wasn't charged with anything and was released nor does he want to file suit against the police.

Respect is earned, not conferred.

Recorded interview of the kid

http://www.myk104.com/dede/mckinneys-adrian-martin-tells-his-side/

muskydan · June 2015

pjhawks said:

callen said:

Last-12-Exit said:
We give the police authority to use force.
When warranted. There's a balance. And we are seeing it debated which is a great thing.
unfortunately a passive police force leads to chaos. just need proof look at Baltimore where crime and murders are way way up since the riots and police have backed off stopping those for petty things and from using force on criminals. it's not a coincidence.

I often think of the below quote from "A Few Good Men" when I think of those that go out of their way to question how law enforcement handles situations, especially those like this one where no one was injured in their manner of protecting the citizens.

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. "

Get used to this passive policing you touched on, but the bright side of this is less police will be getting hurt since being proactive only increases the chase of getting killed or on Msnbc, however society and people who haven't figured out how to protect themselves will suffer.

badbrains · June 2015

muskydan said:

pjhawks said:

callen said:

Last-12-Exit said:
We give the police authority to use force.
When warranted. There's a balance. And we are seeing it debated which is a great thing.
unfortunately a passive police force leads to chaos. just need proof look at Baltimore where crime and murders are way way up since the riots and police have backed off stopping those for petty things and from using force on criminals. it's not a coincidence.

I often think of the below quote from "A Few Good Men" when I think of those that go out of their way to question how law enforcement handles situations, especially those like this one where no one was injured in their manner of protecting the citizens.

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. "
Get used to this passive policing you touched on, but the bright side of this is less police will be getting hurt since being proactive only increases the chase of getting killed or on Msnbc, however society and people who haven't figured out how to protect themselves will suffer.

So much for "protect and serve"

Why don't you quit then? You'd have more time for fishing and golfing, no? If it's soooooo bad, why put your life on the line? Why did you make that promise to "protect and serve".

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2015

The profession must be exceptionally alluring right now. It's definitely in great shape.

I'm pretty sure anyone with the aptitude to do the job well is anxious to enter the profession with the respect society affords it, the great pay, job conditions and the ho hum minimal risk associated with it.

When cities are taking anyone with a pulse to comprise their numbers... it's going to be worse. In truth, I fear we are already experiencing some of this already. The pool of candidates has slimmed over the last few decades for the RCMP and its getting bleaker.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colin-kenny-on-the-rcmp-bigger-mandate-fewer-officers

There are several arm chair quarterbacks that seem to know so much about the job and could give the profession such a needed boost- I wish they would.

rgambs · June 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The profession must be exceptionally alluring right now. It's definitely in great shape.

I'm pretty sure anyone with the aptitude to do the job well is anxious to enter the profession with the respect society affords it, the great pay, job conditions and the ho hum minimal risk associated with it.

When cities are taking anyone with a pulse to comprise their numbers... it's going to be worse. In truth, I fear we are already experiencing some of this already. The pool of candidates has slimmed over the last few decades for the RCMP and its getting bleaker.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colin-kenny-on-the-rcmp-bigger-mandate-fewer-officers

There are several arm chair quarterbacks that seem to know so much about the job and could give the profession such a needed boost- I wish they would.

Some of those armchair quarterbacks are offering solutions to raise the quality of police work by raising the quality of candidates and quality of life for officers... Meanwhile some armchair cheerleaders are trying to maintain the status quo by denying there is a problem at all.

callen · June 2015

The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.

Last-12-Exit · June 2015

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.

Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.

brianlux · June 2015

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.

Like Henry Rollins once said quoting Chuck Dukowski who suggested, "give everybody guns and a lot of people are going to die and after a while it will all get sorted out."

Yee haw!

rgambs · June 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.

Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.

g under p · June 2015

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The profession must be exceptionally alluring right now. It's definitely in great shape.

I'm pretty sure anyone with the aptitude to do the job well is anxious to enter the profession with the respect society affords it, the great pay, job conditions and the ho hum minimal risk associated with it.

When cities are taking anyone with a pulse to comprise their numbers... it's going to be worse. In truth, I fear we are already experiencing some of this already. The pool of candidates has slimmed over the last few decades for the RCMP and its getting bleaker.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colin-kenny-on-the-rcmp-bigger-mandate-fewer-officers

There are several arm chair quarterbacks that seem to know so much about the job and could give the profession such a needed boost- I wish they would.
Some of those armchair quarterbacks are offering solutions to raise the quality of police work by raising the quality of candidates and quality of life for officers... Meanwhile some armchair cheerleaders are trying to maintain the status quo by denying there is a problem at all.

Well to deny that there's not a problem with police work in this country is a huge problem. As if what we see before us can NEVER happen to any of us. Believe me it can even "if we comply with an officers commands". Officers don't ALL lose control and give a beat down to our citizenry, it may just come down to what itch he or she wants to scratch on a given day.

I'd rather be a soldier than a police officer in today's world, many times one is looked up upon positively than the other. It's just NOT an easy job in the least.

Peace

pjhawks · June 2015

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The profession must be exceptionally alluring right now. It's definitely in great shape.

I'm pretty sure anyone with the aptitude to do the job well is anxious to enter the profession with the respect society affords it, the great pay, job conditions and the ho hum minimal risk associated with it.

When cities are taking anyone with a pulse to comprise their numbers... it's going to be worse. In truth, I fear we are already experiencing some of this already. The pool of candidates has slimmed over the last few decades for the RCMP and its getting bleaker.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colin-kenny-on-the-rcmp-bigger-mandate-fewer-officers

There are several arm chair quarterbacks that seem to know so much about the job and could give the profession such a needed boost- I wish they would.
Some of those armchair quarterbacks are offering solutions to raise the quality of police work by raising the quality of candidates and quality of life for officers... Meanwhile some armchair cheerleaders are trying to maintain the status quo by denying there is a problem at all.

i think most reasonable people understand that at times police clearly have gone overboard. i just don't think in this particular video that is the case. i think there is a lot of varying degrees for the definition of 'use whatever force is necessary' to control a situation.

Last-12-Exit · June 2015

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.
Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.

Who's being sarcastic? Andy Griffith would get fired in today's police world!

rgambs · June 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.
Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.
Who's being sarcastic? Andy Griffith would get fired in today's police world!

Sure, if you consider paid administrative leave being fired. You are so wrong about that it's laughable. It takes so much to fire a cop, arbitration drags on for years even when they are convicted of crimes.

g under p · June 2015

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.
Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.
Who's being sarcastic? Andy Griffith would get fired in today's police world!
Sure, if you consider paid administrative leave being fired. You are so wrong about that it's laughable. It takes so much to fire a cop, arbitration drags on for years even when they are convicted of crimes.

I'm surprised the cop in SC who shot that man in the back is STILL in jail. I thought for sure someone would find a way to get him out on bail. Then again he just might be safer there in his cell.

Peace

Last-12-Exit · June 2015

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.
Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.
Who's being sarcastic? Andy Griffith would get fired in today's police world!
Sure, if you consider paid administrative leave being fired. You are so wrong about that it's laughable. It takes so much to fire a cop, arbitration drags on for years even when they are convicted of crimes.

So cops haven't been fired? That's what you're telling me?

rgambs · June 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

callen said:
The elusive balance of force.

Houston cop randomly shot in back yesterday.

More guns for everyone. God given right. Woo hoo.

Couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.
Not today. If you handcuff someone to hard and it's caught on video, you have to resign.
Hahaha you are a trip! Yours and Thirty's posts would be entirely indecipherable to someone who couldn't understand sarcasm.
Who's being sarcastic? Andy Griffith would get fired in today's police world!
Sure, if you consider paid administrative leave being fired. You are so wrong about that it's laughable. It takes so much to fire a cop, arbitration drags on for years even when they are convicted of crimes.
So cops haven't been fired? That's what you're telling me?

It seems to me there is a good bit of middle ground between Andy Griffith getting fired and no cops getting fired. Perhaps since you are espousing an opinion far outside the middle ground it's reasonable to you to assume I am on the extreme as well, but it's a false assumption.

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