Beheaded by ISIS

1…910121415…69

Comments

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,751
    edited August 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    And Byrnzie... why must you always belittle people on this board? Nobody appreciates the you managed to get two lols in there good for you, lol post you felt the need to throw out there.

    Are you really gonna start that shit again? Pretending to be offended by every little thing I say? Seriously, it got boring a long time ago.

    It really was an asinine comment. I was going to just ignore it, but now that he mentioned it...
    Byrnzie, you oughta lighten up a bit.
    Thirty, thank you. Also, things get easier when you stop bothering with him. LOfuckingL. :)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited August 2014
    Finally, some GOOD NEWS, journalists peter curtis released:

    http://nypost.com/2014/08/24/us-journalist-held-in-syria-for-2-years-is-freed/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,712
    Byrnzie said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    And Byrnzie... why must you always belittle people on this board? Nobody appreciates the you managed to get two lols in there good for you, lol post you felt the need to throw out there.

    Are you really gonna start that shit again? Pretending to be offended by every little thing I say? Seriously, it got boring a long time ago.

    I think it does you a disservice .
    personally I think you ARE better than that. would just be nice if it was shown. I fail to see what such belittling statements add to a discussion.
    Maybe I'm wrong though.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited August 2014
    brynzie funny guy. he make jokes. often i laugh hard fall on floor. good fucking shit

    you want read our private letters? god damn comedy up there
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Hezbollah ready and willing to take on IS in Lebanon:

    http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/1.610821
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,751
    Yikes..... all of the horrible possibilities for where all this could go down the road have me a little nervous.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    badbrains said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    fuck said:

    I can't believe how kuc

    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    fuck said:

    Regarding the "moderate Muslims need to do more to combat extremism" line:

    I think it's very condescending for someone in a position of privilege to talk to Muslims living in the Middle East this way. Tell me, what are YOU doing to combat Western imperial policies that allow for extremism to grow? As Drowned Out accurately mentioned, there is a long history of imperial and colonial practices by Western powers in the Middle East/South Asia/North Africa that allowed extremism to grow. And I often find on this board that many of you end up supporting some of these policies because there is a clear refusal to actually engage with history. How did the Middle East become the way it did? What are these extremists a product of? What are they actually rebelling against? If we continue to just ignore legitimate grievances of Muslims living in the Middle East and confront our policies that continue to contribute to the disenfranchisement of these people, that continue to support dictators and settler-colonies that occupy and ethnically cleanse other people, then there will naturally be movements that grow to counter this. And so long as the US and its allies continue to fight this (or pretend to) with the same policies that created them in the first place, then where do you think the "moderate" Muslims are left? In between armed thugs and the world's biggest military, without the ability to even live normal lives.

    Meanwhile, here you all are saying why aren't they doing enough. How about you do something? It's ironic to me that some of you even openly acknowledge that our policies created ISIS, but then support US military involvement in northern Iraq because "we created the mess [by intervening militarily] so now we have to fix it [by intervening militarily]." It's just interesting that there does not appear to be any critical thinking here. Any serious questioning of past policies specifically with regards to how they reflect our future engagement with this part of the world, is just nonexistent. And then we just blame the victims for not "doing enough" without actually being aware of the various debates going on in the Middle East, the trends and movements that exist there, how deep our own involvement is, etc etc. Nope, it's just "them" that aren't doing enough.

    I wasn't talking about Muslims in the Middle East only. I was talking about Muslims all over the world.
    I can't remember fuck. Are you Muslim? If you are, then you have a different perspective on this thinking than the Muslims I've spoken to about it. I have seen only complete agreement from Muslims about how the Muslim world needs to do way, way more to combat Islamic extremism all over the world. The Muslims I've personally spoken to about it were: 1) 2nd generation Canadian, 2) Muslim of Indian decent raised and living in Thailand after being educated in Canada, 3) Iraqi refugee in Canada (his father was a member of the Iraqi communist party and escaped persecution with his family in the 1990s), 4) a Muslim born and raised in the UK, 5) a particularly devout Muslim from Bangladesh, 6) a Nigerian Muslim in Canada as a mature international student. Every one of these 6 people said that they completely agreed that the Muslim world has to do more to counter extremism, and 2 of them told me that they thought the reason more isn't done is because they believe Muslims tend to side with Muslims first no matter what - they said it was a sense of obligation to other Muslims that kept a lot of people from standing stronger against extremists. These people are not, of course, experts on the subject. They are just random Muslims (all men, btw... not sure if women might have a different perspective). So take it for what it's worth. Just thought their opinions were interesting and the seemed to support my supposition that the Muslim world needs to do more to stop and prevent Islamic extremism.
    Can you post a link to an article to support your claims of Muslim friends? And if you do post one, I will say it is full of lies and then post a link to "antiwar.com" and claim it is unbiased.

    I just thought I would predict the future and get the next argument over with.
    What are you blabbering about? Have you actually said anything meaningful in this thread that is not based off of conjecture? No? Carry on then.
    Am I in your house? Is this your message board or something? Am I trespassing? I was commenting on how the "discussions" work in these threads and you just proved my point. It is all about the couple of folks on this board who hate the US and Israel, and will not let any discussion happen that isn't critical of those two countries, no matter how much responsibility for sick acts in the Middle East have to do with the people committing them. No point of view is allowed in these threads unless it meets yours and a couple others' approval, as you've proved in discussions with PJSoul the last couple of pages.

    Oh, and I wanted to lead into my bit on Tang. You can't just mention Tang from the beginning. You gotta work up to it.

    Carry on. Christians murdered for being Christians in Iraq, and it is all the US's fault. Not the actual murderers themselves.
    Kind of like Muslims being killed by the US military for being Muslims in Iraq? No? 2003? Or was that for oil? Or liberation? Or both?
    The US never said to Muslims "Convert to Christianity or die".
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    bootlegger10 said:

    badbrains said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    fuck said:

    I can't believe how kuc

    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    fuck said:

    Regarding the "moderate Muslims need to do more to combat extremism" line:

    I think it's very condescending for someone in a position of privilege to talk to Muslims living in the Middle East this way. Tell me, what are YOU doing to combat Western imperial policies that allow for extremism to grow? As Drowned Out accurately mentioned, there is a long history of imperial and colonial practices by Western powers in the Middle East/South Asia/North Africa that allowed extremism to grow. And I often find on this board that many of you end up supporting some of these policies because there is a clear refusal to actually engage with history. How did the Middle East become the way it did? What are these extremists a product of? What are they actually rebelling against? If we continue to just ignore legitimate grievances of Muslims living in the Middle East and confront our policies that continue to contribute to the disenfranchisement of these people, that continue to support dictators and settler-colonies that occupy and ethnically cleanse other people, then there will naturally be movements that grow to counter this. And so long as the US and its allies continue to fight this (or pretend to) with the same policies that created them in the first place, then where do you think the "moderate" Muslims are left? In between armed thugs and the world's biggest military, without the ability to even live normal lives.

    Meanwhile, here you all are saying why aren't they doing enough. How about you do something? It's ironic to me that some of you even openly acknowledge that our policies created ISIS, but then support US military involvement in northern Iraq because "we created the mess [by intervening militarily] so now we have to fix it [by intervening militarily]." It's just interesting that there does not appear to be any critical thinking here. Any serious questioning of past policies specifically with regards to how they reflect our future engagement with this part of the world, is just nonexistent. And then we just blame the victims for not "doing enough" without actually being aware of the various debates going on in the Middle East, the trends and movements that exist there, how deep our own involvement is, etc etc. Nope, it's just "them" that aren't doing enough.

    I wasn't talking about Muslims in the Middle East only. I was talking about Muslims all over the world.
    I can't remember fuck. Are you Muslim? If you are, then you have a different perspective on this thinking than the Muslims I've spoken to about it. I have seen only complete agreement from Muslims about how the Muslim world needs to do way, way more to combat Islamic extremism all over the world. The Muslims I've personally spoken to about it were: 1) 2nd generation Canadian, 2) Muslim of Indian decent raised and living in Thailand after being educated in Canada, 3) Iraqi refugee in Canada (his father was a member of the Iraqi communist party and escaped persecution with his family in the 1990s), 4) a Muslim born and raised in the UK, 5) a particularly devout Muslim from Bangladesh, 6) a Nigerian Muslim in Canada as a mature international student. Every one of these 6 people said that they completely agreed that the Muslim world has to do more to counter extremism, and 2 of them told me that they thought the reason more isn't done is because they believe Muslims tend to side with Muslims first no matter what - they said it was a sense of obligation to other Muslims that kept a lot of people from standing stronger against extremists. These people are not, of course, experts on the subject. They are just random Muslims (all men, btw... not sure if women might have a different perspective). So take it for what it's worth. Just thought their opinions were interesting and the seemed to support my supposition that the Muslim world needs to do more to stop and prevent Islamic extremism.
    Can you post a link to an article to support your claims of Muslim friends? And if you do post one, I will say it is full of lies and then post a link to "antiwar.com" and claim it is unbiased.

    I just thought I would predict the future and get the next argument over with.
    What are you blabbering about? Have you actually said anything meaningful in this thread that is not based off of conjecture? No? Carry on then.
    Am I in your house? Is this your message board or something? Am I trespassing? I was commenting on how the "discussions" work in these threads and you just proved my point. It is all about the couple of folks on this board who hate the US and Israel, and will not let any discussion happen that isn't critical of those two countries, no matter how much responsibility for sick acts in the Middle East have to do with the people committing them. No point of view is allowed in these threads unless it meets yours and a couple others' approval, as you've proved in discussions with PJSoul the last couple of pages.

    Oh, and I wanted to lead into my bit on Tang. You can't just mention Tang from the beginning. You gotta work up to it.

    Carry on. Christians murdered for being Christians in Iraq, and it is all the US's fault. Not the actual murderers themselves.
    Kind of like Muslims being killed by the US military for being Muslims in Iraq? No? 2003? Or was that for oil? Or liberation? Or both?
    The US never said to Muslims "Convert to Christianity or die".
    No you didn't, you're absolutely right. But you did tell them to CHANGE their government. Who are we to tell ANYONE to change anything in THEIR country?
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    edited August 2014
    Edit
    Post edited by Idris on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mickeyrat said:


    I think it does you a disservice .
    personally I think you ARE better than that. would just be nice if it was shown. I fail to see what such belittling statements add to a discussion.
    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    I fail to see what Lol's add to a discussion.

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    bootlegger10 said:

    The US never said to Muslims "Convert to Christianity or die".

    No, it just said "Accept our terms, or die".

  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    Byrnzie said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    It is all about the couple of folks on this board who hate the US and Israel

    Criticizing these countries governments doesn't mean that you hate the countries in question. Any 5 year old could tell you that.
    bootlegger10 said:

    No point of view is allowed in these threads unless it meets yours and a couple others' approval, as you've proved in discussions with PJSoul the last couple of pages.

    Point of view? We're not philosophizing or fantasizing here, we're discussing political realities. Political realities based on the factual record. Somebody claiming that 130,000 Palestinians have been killed in Syria is not a fact, it's a fantasy. And someone claiming that 25% of Muslims are extremists is also a fantasy.
    You wanna indulge in fantasies? Then maybe the AMT is not the place for you.
    bootlegger10 said:

    Christians murdered for being Christians in Iraq, and it is all the US's fault. Not the actual murderers themselves.

    Seven hijackers from Saudi Arabia attacking the U.S on 9/11, and it's Afghanistan's and Iraq's fault, not the actual murderers themselves.

    See what I did there?

    Yes, criticizing governments could mean you hate their policies. When the post ratio of articles anti-USA/Israel to neutral are like 300 to 0 (I didn't do an exact count), I infer there is more an emotional dislike of the USA/Israel going on versus wanting a healthy debate on policy.

    PJ_Soul's article had various surveys about how countries felt about extremist groups. Maybe 25% wasn't the number but it wasn't zero to 5% either. But from the moment she typed it was attack mode on her because it didn't fit the narrative of anti-US/Israel.

    I saw what you did there. You deflect the point. Same with Hamas. If someone talks about Hamas send rockets from UN schools or neighborhoods (which makes them targets), you say it is Israel's fault that they have to do this, instead of admitting Hamas is knowingly making targets of its civilians in a public relations war (because they know they can't win a conventional war).



  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    Byrnzie said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    The US never said to Muslims "Convert to Christianity or die".

    No, it just said "Accept our terms, or die".

    First, I just wanted to clarify that the US isn't the one attacking a religion. Clearly ISIS is.

    Second, with regards to accept our terms or die, the US attacked the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The US attacked Saddam in Iraq. Both are proven to be brutal dictators/groups and not innocent Christians living in Iraq killed just because of their religion.

    I'm not going to buy into the line of thinking you are trying to sell that the USA is no better than ISIS.

    There was a comment earlier in the thread regarding the rape/murder by US soldiers in Iraq. Horrible event. The perpetrators should be put to death in my opinion. But, no one I believe clarified that ISIS beheadings are sanctioned by the group, and are used to extort ransoms. The rape by US soldiers is not sanctioned or used to further an agenda. There are monsters in every country that committ rape/murder, but the key difference is that ISIS does it to advance an agenda, where as the US soldiers did not do it to advance the war in the US's favor but they did it because they are individually sadists.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,390
    Sorry to those who disagree with me, but I think it's ridiculous to waste energy on a question about "who's worse". ISIS have done atrocious things, America have done atrocious things. Both are either delusional in their notion of what "right" looks like, or have a hidden agenda and are using something more absolute as a scapegoat. Both bastardize the ideals they claim to stand behind. If it's "who started it", that's a different story, as it sets the context for the issues at hand today, but to say, "hm, ISIS are a 7 on the evil scale, and I'd put America at 7.5" seems so childish, and more importantly - meaningless.

    The goal of any of these discussions regarding current events, is to come to some sort of actionable conclusions. Whether ISIS are worse than America, America is worse than ISIS, or they're both equally shitty entities, I don't think anyone's goals here are different: find out what's wrong, start to figure out how the fuck we make it right.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    edited August 2014
    benjs said:

    Sorry to those who disagree with me, but I think it's ridiculous to waste energy on a question about "who's worse". ISIS have done atrocious things, America have done atrocious things. Both are either delusional in their notion of what "right" looks like, or have a hidden agenda and are using something more absolute as a scapegoat. Both bastardize the ideals they claim to stand behind. If it's "who started it", that's a different story, as it sets the context for the issues at hand today, but to say, "hm, ISIS are a 7 on the evil scale, and I'd put America at 7.5" seems so childish, and more importantly - meaningless.

    The goal of any of these discussions regarding current events, is to come to some sort of actionable conclusions. Whether ISIS are worse than America, America is worse than ISIS, or they're both equally shitty entities, I don't think anyone's goals here are different: find out what's wrong, start to figure out how the fuck we make it right.

    Was the discussion really ever about 'who's worse'? (not sure where you materialized that from) I think the point of the discussion was to show that 'we' are not truly any better, so before we go around trying to fix problems, we need to first recognize that we are part of the problem. So we don't make the same mistakes, causing the...same problems.

    and I think it's (to a large degree) been fairly clear in this thread already what needs to be done, to make it 'right'.

    Stay out of other nations affairs, treat people fairly etc etc etc.

    Post edited by Idris on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    bootlegger10 said:

    Yes, criticizing governments could mean you hate their policies. When the post ratio of articles anti-USA/Israel to neutral are like 300 to 0 (I didn't do an exact count), I infer there is more an emotional dislike of the USA/Israel going on versus wanting a healthy debate on policy.

    You can infer what you like. In the meantime, feel free to contribute something constructive to the 'healthy debate'. instead of just 'they hate the U.S and Israel'. Because that's not very healthy. It's just juvenile.
    bootlegger10 said:

    PJ_Soul's article had various surveys about how countries felt about extremist groups. Maybe 25% wasn't the number but it wasn't zero to 5% either. But from the moment she typed it was attack mode on her because it didn't fit the narrative of anti-US/Israel.

    How countries feel about extremist groups wasn't the point. She claimed that 25% of Muslims are extremists. That claim was utter gibberish.
    How many Americans still believe that Sadaam Hussein was responsible for 9/11?
    bootlegger10 said:

    I saw what you did there. You deflect the point. Same with Hamas. If someone talks about Hamas send rockets from UN schools or neighborhoods (which makes them targets), you say it is Israel's fault that they have to do this

    Actually, I said nothing of the sort, because Hamas didn't 'send' any rockets from U.N schools. Why are you making shit up?

    And I realize you don't know this, but Gaza is one of the most densely crowded residential areas in the World. Where else do you think Hamas can operate from other than 'neighbourhoods'? They don't have the luxury of flying F16's or Apache helicopters.

    Why are you trying to excuse and justify the mass murder of Palestinians, including over 500 children? Do you have something against Arabs?





  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    But otherwise, benjs, I'm in agreement with what you posted.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,751
    edited August 2014
    I actually said that 25% at least supported extremist views. Which is what that article was about. So not gibberish. If you don't think those polls are relevant, that's fine with me. I found it interesting. People's idea of what extremism is or isn't would determine if they consider being supportive of extremist views to be the same as being an extremist.

    I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PJ_Soul said:

    I don't know. How many Americans think Hussein was responsible for 9/11? I wouodn't have thought it was vry many. Just a small number ifnreally stupid people. What does that have to do with anything?

    It has to do with the fact that what many people think, especially in the U.S, doesn't always have any relation to reality.

  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    PJ_Soul said:

    I actually said that 25% at least supported extremist views. Which is what that article was about. So not gibberish. If you don't think those polls are relevant, that's fine with me. I found it interesting. People's idea of what extremism is or isn't would determine if they consider being supportive of extremist views to be the same as being an extremist.

    Don't change what actually happened here. You got the number 25% out of thin air - that poll did not say that. Secondly, don't act like this is us saying the poll "isn't relevant". I tore that shitty poll to shreds and you ignored my post and critiques in typical fashion. If that's the best source material you can find to defend your absurd claim then your arguments are what's "not relevant".

Categories