And like I said above, all of this was predicted in the run up to the U.S invasion of Iraq. It was predicted that the country would be fragmented into warring factions, and it was predicted that the invasion would cause an increase of terrorism in the World. But they invaded anyway, based on a bunch of lies, and for some short-term profit.
And like I said above, all of this was predicted in the run up to the U.S invasion of Iraq. It was predicted that the country would be fragmented into warring factions, and it was predicted that the invasion would cause an increase of terrorism in the World. But they invaded anyway, based on a bunch of lies, and for some short-term profit.
True, very true. Byrnzie, I watched that video on twitter, wow, fucken what a lucky guy ey? Unreal.
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
This is tough to dispute and you'll get no argument from me regarding what you have expressed here; however, what should the mentality be given the current reality?
Does the international community say, "Oh fuck. Well... what can you do?" with a shrug of the shoulders... or does it say, "Geezuz. We gotta do something."
And if you feel it is response number 2... in your opinion, what should happen?
And like I said above, all of this was predicted in the run up to the U.S invasion of Iraq. It was predicted that the country would be fragmented into warring factions, and it was predicted that the invasion would cause an increase of terrorism in the World. But they invaded anyway, based on a bunch of lies, and for some short-term profit.
Exactly, it's actually quite simple. Destabilization is the goal for the region, everybody who looks beyond the television knows it. Keep oil sold in US dollars, keep access to the oil, and keep a state of constant warfare for the defense contractors. ISIS isn't the enemy, ISIS is a tool for achieving goals that are public knowledge, again though, only to the public that reads foreign journalism and doesn't watch television. We will "fight" ISIS for a long drawn out period, and when they are gone they will leave a power vacuum that will be filled by whatever terrorist organization we are currently funding to fight ISIS. Not sure who because I have lost interest in these games.
we should have waited it out a couple thousand years for the middle east to gain a balance that the West approves of.
No matter what its going to be a mess. One month Iran and Syria are the evildoers who must be stopped, Iraq was "taken care of" but then another group comes out and suddenly we are kind of in the same corner with Syria and Iran?
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
This is tough to dispute and you'll get no argument from me regarding what you have expressed here; however, what should the mentality be given the current reality?
Does the international community say, "Oh fuck. Well... what can you do?" with a shrug of the shoulders... or does it say, "Geezuz. We gotta do something."
And if you feel it is response number 2... in your opinion, what should happen?
I think this is the critical question: action or inaction? At this point, the Western powers have lost their credibility within the region, and have proven time after time that their self-serving actions do not consider justice, human or infrastructural costs (at least in the Middle East) as priorities. So, once you recognize the presence of the cycle, what has to happen in order to break it?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Ahh fucked up quotes, sorry guys, my statement stands by itself.
Also, let's not forget the US soldiers who torture, rape, and mutilate before we get too high and mighty. I have seen pissing on dead civilians, keeping body parts as trophies, and direct proof of torture of detainees. Let's not act like ISIS has a lockdown on inhumanity.
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
This is tough to dispute and you'll get no argument from me regarding what you have expressed here; however, what should the mentality be given the current reality?
Does the international community say, "Oh fuck. Well... what can you do?" with a shrug of the shoulders... or does it say, "Geezuz. We gotta do something."
And if you feel it is response number 2... in your opinion, what should happen?
I think this is the critical question: action or inaction? At this point, the Western powers have lost their credibility within the region, and have proven time after time that their self-serving actions do not consider justice, human or infrastructural costs (at least in the Middle East) as priorities. So, once you recognize the presence of the cycle, what has to happen in order to break it?
Do just that, break it. Walk away, let someone else clean it up, let them take to the streets and reclaim their lives. It's a worthless line of thought to question what we SHOULD do because we know what the US WILL do...drop depleted uranium shells that will forever cause further destabilization.
Ahh fucked up quotes, sorry guys, my statement stands by itself.
Also, let's not forget the US soldiers who torture, rape, and mutilate before we get too high and mighty. I have seen pissing on dead civilians, keeping body parts as trophies, and direct proof of torture of detainees. Let's not act like ISIS has a lockdown on inhumanity.
battle, war, changes people, it flicks a switch in them that may not be pleasant. most i would say handle steering away from torture, rape & collecting body parts as trophies. it is all a form of getting inside the enemies head as psychological warfare & going to far is bullshit cruelty.
fighting like this can turm decent folks into ballastic creatures of evil. it is not pretty & should be delt with swiftly. soldiers do check on their own soldiers' mental health i would assume? rogue type idiots team up i guess, or not, the loner jerk off raping & torturing civilians.
psychological warfare has won more battles & wars than anything else. as well as having fighting totally avoided altogether (at least for awhile). but the king sure paid up in gold, silver & jewels as a payment to the barbarians for not burning his kingdom to the ground. if this was 1,600 years ago in scandanavia, i'm in the games of messing with the minds & souls of those we are destroying
you take 99 berserkers & place 500 (make it 1,000) men from the english or french armys out in the fields or woods or shoreline, 500 -1,000 men in shining (or dull leathery) armour are pooping in their fancy heavy medieval outfits.
this works in modern day sporting events, boxing & mma... of course it helps if you can back up your nutjob-ness
isis is good at bringing the fear & they are fucking dangerous
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
You think this is all blow back? I'd say a lot of this is power hungry,narcissistic disenfranchised fucked up young men with daddy issues,trying to be part of something,like a gang. The Evil intentions aren't just aimed at the west but stabilized governments of the region are also targets.We may have enabled the enviorment,but these cats are operating on more then a fuck the west agenda.The few in power are just another version of wanna be tough guys,like Bin Laden and they need the shock value for more recruitment.
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
You think this is all blow back? I'd say a lot of this is power hungry,narcissistic disenfranchised fucked up young men with daddy issues,trying to be part of something,like a gang. The Evil intentions aren't just aimed at the west but stabilized governments of the region are also targets.We may have enabled the enviorment,but these cats are operating on more then a fuck the west agenda.The few in power are just another version of wanna be tough guys,like Bin Laden and they need the shock value for more recruitment.
And we provide the shock they need for recruitment by dropping bombs!
Unless time machines have recently been invented, why use past events to deflect from current day atrocities? It comes off as defending what ISIS is doing.
It's not deflecting, it's called perspective. The Western powers have had their hands in the Middle East for decades, if not centuries. We've not stopped fucking with them for as long as I can remember. And to pretend that these 'monsters' suddenly emerged out of nowhere, as if out of a vacuum, is deflecting. The shit we're seeing over there now is happening as a direct consequence of our constant meddling in their affairs.
I think 'Blow back' is the expression. And 'You reap what you sow' is another.
You think this is all blow back? I'd say a lot of this is power hungry,narcissistic disenfranchised fucked up young men with daddy issues,trying to be part of something,like a gang. The Evil intentions aren't just aimed at the west but stabilized governments of the region are also targets.We may have enabled the enviorment,but these cats are operating on more then a fuck the west agenda.The few in power are just another version of wanna be tough guys,like Bin Laden and they need the shock value for more recruitment.
And we provide the shock they need for recruitment by dropping bombs!
Hopefully Gambs its on their heads.I hope we give them all the shock they can handle.
what are the numbers of isis guys right now fighting in syria & iraq? what are the numbers of sleeper cells in other countries around the world? is it remorely possible for let's say boko haram that's in nigeria to become partners w/ isis? they're around 2400 miles/3950 kilometers apart & around 2100 nautical miles. a wonderful flight is just over 5 hours in duration - damascus, syria to abuja, nigeria
just thinking & researching out loud with my typing finger
And like I said above, all of this was predicted in the run up to the U.S invasion of Iraq. It was predicted that the country would be fragmented into warring factions, and it was predicted that the invasion would cause an increase of terrorism in the World. But they invaded anyway, based on a bunch of lies, and for some short-term profit.
I think it is even more insidious than that....I don't think it's short-sighted - I think the goal is long term hegemony....and I don't think the consequences came about due to carelessness.... The consequences were part of a long term plan to reshape the middle east into smaller, more manageable, less powerful nations. New sectarian borders will cause in-fighting between those victimized and displaced by violence, which in turn further weakens the ability of governments to resist western alliances or 'aid'. Literally,'divide and conquer'.
Why do you say that? What interest do you think Israel has in stopping unrest within it's rival nations? Esp when the main target of ISIS in Lebanon would be Hezbollah - the Lebanese militia that is always the target of Israeli aggression against Lebanon. Interesting that you are calling for US intervention, yet seem to not have a basic understanding of who is (or would be) fighting who.
And like I said above, all of this was predicted in the run up to the U.S invasion of Iraq. It was predicted that the country would be fragmented into warring factions, and it was predicted that the invasion would cause an increase of terrorism in the World. But they invaded anyway, based on a bunch of lies, and for some short-term profit.
I think it is even more insidious than that....I don't think it's short-sighted - I think the goal is long term hegemony....and I don't think the consequences came about due to carelessness.... The consequences were part of a long term plan to reshape the middle east into smaller, more manageable, less powerful nations. New sectarian borders will cause in-fighting between those victimized and displaced by violence, which in turn further weakens the ability of governments to resist western alliances or 'aid'. Literally,'divide and conquer'.
Why do you say that? What interest do you think Israel has in stopping unrest within it's rival nations? Esp when the main target of ISIS in Lebanon would be Hezbollah - the Lebanese militia that is always the target of Israeli aggression against Lebanon. Interesting that you are calling for US intervention, yet seem to not have a basic understanding of who is (or would be) fighting who.
I say this because there is no way they will allow IS to become a threat to their border regardless of the squabble on the other side. And I do have the basics Drowned out, a Middle East expert or analyst I am not.
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Funny, but take away the US backing and that statement changes. Remember 06 and Hezbollah? Wasn't that long ago. Don't even tell me Israel won that war.
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Yeah, just like "mission accomplished" in Iraq. Why don't we throw in Afghanistan too. Walks in the park.
I say this because there is no way they will allow IS to become a threat to their border regardless of the squabble on the other side.. And I do have the basics Drowned out, a Middle East expert or analyst I am not.
My point regarding the basics wasn't to belittle you (there's that word again)....only to make you question yourself as to whether you feel informed enough to be calling for military support. Do you think having 'the basics' is good enough to be volunteering your military to go to war again, and putting yourself at risk of blowback? People supporting war on 'the basics' is what allowed this entire mess to develop in the first place. I feel like a broken record
the first paragraph....Israel has always had a hostile army on their northern border. So as far as border security goes (as in, an invading army), the IS is no threat to them...or at least is no greater threat than Hezbollah. Israel (and the US) have a history of cozying up to Sunni jihadis - its the Iran/Hezbollah/Assad connection they've wanted destroyed for decades now. They are the biggest benefactors in this entire mess..
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Probably true, but you can overrun a military, bomb the shit out of country, and retain virtually no control over the population. Israel should know this better than anyone. As bb said - Israel always wins in number of murders bombs dropped, but have they ever broken the will of ANY of their enemies? Does any aggressor?
If true, this could help the ACTUAL Syrian rebels some. By pulling Hezbollah fighters back home? Iran gets invovled too I should think or at least funds a lot of it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I say this because there is no way they will allow IS to become a threat to their border regardless of the squabble on the other side.. And I do have the basics Drowned out, a Middle East expert or analyst I am not.
My point regarding the basics wasn't to belittle you (there's that word again)....only to make you question yourself as to whether you feel informed enough to be calling for military support. Do you think having 'the basics' is good enough to be volunteering your military to go to war again, and putting yourself at risk of blowback? People supporting war on 'the basics' is what allowed this entire mess to develop in the first place. I feel like a broken record
the first paragraph....Israel has always had a hostile army on their northern border. So as far as border security goes (as in, an invading army), the IS is no threat to them...or at least is no greater threat than Hezbollah. Israel (and the US) have a history of cozying up to Sunni jihadis - its the Iran/Hezbollah/Assad connection they've wanted destroyed for decades now. They are the biggest benefactors in this entire mess..
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Probably true, but you can overrun a military, bomb the shit out of country, and retain virtually no control over the population. Israel should know this better than anyone. As bb said - Israel always wins in number of murders bombs dropped, but have they ever broken the will of ANY of their enemies? Does any aggressor?
Drowned,I'm not thin skinned,I didn't take your comment as a shot.In fact I was going to break your balls about something silly,but I was tired and wrong thread,so no issue here.But yes I do think that the "basics" are enough for me to conclude in this here little cluster fuck,that the USA does need continued involvement in stopping the spread of IS.I might not be the authority on every nuanced detail but, I can tell this will only get a lot worse without our involvement.
I say this because there is no way they will allow IS to become a threat to their border regardless of the squabble on the other side.. And I do have the basics Drowned out, a Middle East expert or analyst I am not.
My point regarding the basics wasn't to belittle you (there's that word again)....only to make you question yourself as to whether you feel informed enough to be calling for military support. Do you think having 'the basics' is good enough to be volunteering your military to go to war again, and putting yourself at risk of blowback? People supporting war on 'the basics' is what allowed this entire mess to develop in the first place. I feel like a broken record
the first paragraph....Israel has always had a hostile army on their northern border. So as far as border security goes (as in, an invading army), the IS is no threat to them...or at least is no greater threat than Hezbollah. Israel (and the US) have a history of cozying up to Sunni jihadis - its the Iran/Hezbollah/Assad connection they've wanted destroyed for decades now. They are the biggest benefactors in this entire mess..
Maybe Israel wants this to happen so they can fight Hezbollah and not have them get their hands dirty. Maybe this is why Israel agreed to a cease fire, regroup for the next battle?
Israel does not need to regroup for anything. If they wanted to take over the entire Middle East they could do it by lunch tomorrow.
Probably true, but you can overrun a military, bomb the shit out of country, and retain virtually no control over the population. Israel should know this better than anyone. As bb said - Israel always wins in number of murders bombs dropped, but have they ever broken the will of ANY of their enemies? Does any aggressor?
Drowned,I'm not thin skinned,I didn't take your comment as a shot.In fact I was going to break your balls about something silly,but I was tired and wrong thread,so no issue here.But yes I do think that the "basics" are enough for me to conclude in this here little cluster fuck,that the USA does need continued involvement in stopping the spread of IS.I might not be the authority on every nuanced detail but, I can tell this will only get a lot worse without our involvement.
Hasn't every single intervention in the region shown that it will get worse WITH our involvement?? The only difference is tax dollars spent and whose lives are lost. I value all lives the same, but I don't support shipping lives around the world to be lost in conflicts that don't involve them. In addition, our depleted uranium shells will kill more innocent children than IS ever will, or even could. Have you not seen birth defect and cancer rates from Baghdad?
Comments
Does the international community say, "Oh fuck. Well... what can you do?" with a shrug of the shoulders... or does it say, "Geezuz. We gotta do something."
And if you feel it is response number 2... in your opinion, what should happen?
No matter what its going to be a mess. One month Iran and Syria are the evildoers who must be stopped, Iraq was "taken care of" but then another group comes out and suddenly we are kind of in the same corner with Syria and Iran?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Also, let's not forget the US soldiers who torture, rape, and mutilate before we get too high and mighty. I have seen pissing on dead civilians, keeping body parts as trophies, and direct proof of torture of detainees. Let's not act like ISIS has a lockdown on inhumanity.
fighting like this can turm decent folks into ballastic creatures of evil. it is not pretty & should be delt with swiftly. soldiers do check on their own soldiers' mental health i would assume? rogue type idiots team up i guess, or not, the loner jerk off raping & torturing civilians.
psychological warfare has won more battles & wars than anything else. as well as having fighting totally avoided altogether (at least for awhile). but the king sure paid up in gold, silver & jewels as a payment to the barbarians for not burning his kingdom to the ground. if this was 1,600 years ago in scandanavia, i'm in the games of messing with the minds & souls of those we are destroying
you take 99 berserkers & place 500 (make it 1,000) men from the english or french armys out in the fields or woods or shoreline, 500 -1,000 men in shining (or dull leathery) armour are pooping in their fancy heavy medieval outfits.
this works in modern day sporting events, boxing & mma... of course it helps if you can back up your nutjob-ness
isis is good at bringing the fear & they are fucking dangerous
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The Evil intentions aren't just aimed at the west but stabilized governments of the region are also targets.We may have enabled the enviorment,but these cats are operating on more then a fuck the west agenda.The few in power are just another version of wanna be tough guys,like Bin Laden and they need the shock value for more recruitment.
just thinking & researching out loud with my typing finger
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
https://news.vice.com/article/the-middle-easts-next-ticking-time-bomb-lebanon?utm_source=vicenewstwitter
Why do you say that? What interest do you think Israel has in stopping unrest within it's rival nations? Esp when the main target of ISIS in Lebanon would be Hezbollah - the Lebanese militia that is always the target of Israeli aggression against Lebanon.
Interesting that you are calling for US intervention, yet seem to not have a basic understanding of who is (or would be) fighting who.
And I do have the basics Drowned out, a Middle East expert or analyst I am not.
Yeah, just like "mission accomplished" in Iraq. Why don't we throw in Afghanistan too. Walks in the park.
I feel like a broken record
the first paragraph....Israel has always had a hostile army on their northern border. So as far as border security goes (as in, an invading army), the IS is no threat to them...or at least is no greater threat than Hezbollah. Israel (and the US) have a history of cozying up to Sunni jihadis - its the Iran/Hezbollah/Assad connection they've wanted destroyed for decades now. They are the biggest benefactors in this entire mess.. Probably true, but you can overrun a military, bomb the shit out of country, and retain virtually no control over the population. Israel should know this better than anyone. As bb said - Israel always wins in number of murders bombs dropped, but have they ever broken the will of ANY of their enemies? Does any aggressor?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Video Feature: Surviving an ISIS Massacre [includes graphic images]
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/world/middleeast/surviving-isis-massacre-iraq-video.html?_r=0