Michael Brown Shooting

Cliffy6745 said:

http://gawker.com/what-ive-learned-from-two-years-collecting-data-on-poli-1625472836

rr165892 said:

Idris said:

Last-12-Exit said:

No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.

Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.

We differ in mindset, that's fine.

I have no more to say on this.

It's all about stopping the threat.Not wounding.Police are trained to put the threat down.Multiple shots= massive internal organ bleed out= stopping threat.Police basics here.This is not the movies.
I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.

Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!!
Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.

PJ_Soul said:

rr165892 said:

Idris said:

Last-12-Exit said:

No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.

Sorry, but the second they fired that gun, they 'lost' control of the situation.

We differ in mindset, that's fine.

I have no more to say on this.

It's all about stopping the threat.Not wounding.Police are trained to put the threat down.Multiple shots= massive internal organ bleed out= stopping threat.Police basics here.This is not the movies.
I think there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the posts on here.Story would change Im sure if you or your family was threatened and you needed these same cops to help you.

Crazy dude is approaching your 7 year old daughter,has a knife in hand,won't listen to repeated demands to disarm and hault.You want the cop to stop this crazy fuck or now is negotiating and taser the best way?if you said "taser"your fucking lying.You would want your family member safe no matter what.Please save my child!!!!!
Why does that law enforcement officers life not have the same value as the child?The perp already devalued his position by offering up a threat with a knife,and advancing.

That is a totally incomparable situation. A man approaching a young child with a weapon has nothing to do with a man standing in the street with cops surrounding him.

Last-12-Exit said:

JimmyV said:

I've only watched the video on my phone and can't tell for sure whether he has a knife or not. Either way, it is not inconceivable that the police believed he had a knife. Either through mistaking what they saw or as a result of the robbery report, they could have believed a knife was present and part of the threat.

That is not to say their response was not overkill. Nor does it explain handcuffing a dead body.

I see nothing wrong with the cops handcuffing the guy. They may not know he's dead. Most of these guys are not paramedics and are not trained in checking vitals. Once again, their job is to regain control of the situation. Once the shooting ended, they have have to cuff the guy because if the guy isn't dead, he couple possibly pose a threat. As harsh as that may sound, it's part of regaining control of the situation.

dignin said:

Cliffy6745 said:

http://gawker.com/what-ive-learned-from-two-years-collecting-data-on-poli-1625472836

It is very suspect that they don't keep this information...at least publicly.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.

Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.

I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.

I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.

I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.

But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.

Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.

I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?

We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.

It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.

And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Idris said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have a problem with the respect is earned mentality as well.

Once a person puts on a police uniform, respect is automatic- they do not have to 'earn it' before people take them seriously. With that said, we might lose respect for an officer if they do something that betrays the trust and confidence we have afforded them, but we don't disrespect an entire police nation for the actions of a few.

I'm afraid many have lost perspective here.

I think that's fair. And I understand your sentiment.

I personally respect the law. I can't say I respect the uniform but I do respect their power and weapon.

But I know I will tell my child, based on my experiences with police, not to "trust" them. I was raised to trust and respect the police. But later learned not to. Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life.

Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.

I know that is very cynical but based on my experiences that's how I feel, and I'm white and live in a relatively peaceful wealthy place. I can only imagine what it's like being black and having to deal with a mostly white police department in Ferguson. What are they telling their children when it comes to dealing with the police?

We're not too far apart. In particular, when you say, Watch your back. Police are still humans, they make mistakes, whether intentional or not. And their mistakes can cost you your freedom or your life... this is what I've basically been trying to get at. You also said it again when you wrote: Not saying all cops are bad....but how do you know when you encounter one if they are or not? Better to err on the safe side.

It's foolish and dangerous to confront a police officer in the line of duty- especially menacingly.

And to be clear... by 'respect'... I don't necessarily mean bow down... I mean 'respect' in the way that clearly demonstrates you understand the position and authority a cop has over you.

I agree.

Well let's drink to that!

Last-12-Exit said:

JonnyPistachio said:

Last-12-Exit said:

No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.

After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.

You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JonnyPistachio said:

Last-12-Exit said:

JonnyPistachio said:

Last-12-Exit said:

No such thing as overkill. They are trained to shoot until the situation is back under their control.

After the first couple of shots the man is incapacitated. Anything after he is incapacitated certainly is overkill. In this case, 13 shots is clearly excessive.

You can't say that after two shot the man is incapacitated. If your life depended on making sure that guy is down and can't get up I'm sure you wouldn't think two shots was enough.

The guy immediately fell to the floor and laid flat. I'd call that incapacitated, but maybe thats just me.

Exactly. That's just you.

But you weren't actually there and you have no previous experiences from which to shape your mentality to deal with the situation that was presented.

I would agree that it looks excessive and extreme, but I'll never overlook the fact that this guy pushed the envelope way too far and forced the issue. He had more control than people are willing to concede.