Michael Brown Shooting

Jason P

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Jason P said:

Again, the Barney Fife rule should be employed. One bullet in the shirt pocket.

Cops are for the most part the D-student linebacker from your high school that flunked out of community college.

This is correct in many cases.

Again, I'd point out the fact that in Canada, the RCMP used to be one of the best jobs a person could get in terms of wage, benefits, pension, and respect. The wait list was years and screening was thorough- only the most appropriate people ended up with a badge.

Now... people can have a better living and not have to worry about getting killed on the job by mopping floors at the various mines pimped out by our country to international companies.

What am I saying if it's not obvious? You can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit. If people wish for exceptional police forces... then they should be prepared to pay for them. There is a highly unrealistic attitude from some on these boards that think cops should take their little salaries and feel very happy about that.

In developed countries, any job that places a person's life on the line is richly compensated, otherwise people do not assume the inherent risk- they need to be motivated. So... where I agree with you, Jason, is around the notion that 'some' people entering the police force are motivated by things other than salaries and benefits- such as power. This group would in my unqualified estimation be the minority, however we are seeing this minority and their unqualified aptitude in our monthly Youtube clips, headlines, and this forum.

I'm not making an excuse for any brutal cop behaviours, but its not a stretch to expect poor results when your force is comprised of poor candidates better suited for other professions.

The simple of notion of "Serve and Protect" has been replaced by "Stand Down, Motherfucker!"

I'm not sure if better pay is the issue. It's more the culture that they train. Citizens are viewed more as the enemy during interaction. If McDonalds can train people to be nice for $7 an hour, the police force should be able to do the same.

The fact that these fuckwads opened fire on a dude like it was a carnival game and received no discipline speaks volumes. They probably got paid while suspended and the taxpayers had to write someone a big paycheck because of these idiots.

rgambs

Jason P said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Jason P said:

Again, the Barney Fife rule should be employed. One bullet in the shirt pocket.

Cops are for the most part the D-student linebacker from your high school that flunked out of community college.

This is correct in many cases.

Again, I'd point out the fact that in Canada, the RCMP used to be one of the best jobs a person could get in terms of wage, benefits, pension, and respect. The wait list was years and screening was thorough- only the most appropriate people ended up with a badge.

Now... people can have a better living and not have to worry about getting killed on the job by mopping floors at the various mines pimped out by our country to international companies.

What am I saying if it's not obvious? You can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit. If people wish for exceptional police forces... then they should be prepared to pay for them. There is a highly unrealistic attitude from some on these boards that think cops should take their little salaries and feel very happy about that.

In developed countries, any job that places a person's life on the line is richly compensated, otherwise people do not assume the inherent risk- they need to be motivated. So... where I agree with you, Jason, is around the notion that 'some' people entering the police force are motivated by things other than salaries and benefits- such as power. This group would in my unqualified estimation be the minority, however we are seeing this minority and their unqualified aptitude in our monthly Youtube clips, headlines, and this forum.

I'm not making an excuse for any brutal cop behaviours, but its not a stretch to expect poor results when your force is comprised of poor candidates better suited for other professions.

The simple of notion of "Serve and Protect" has been replaced by "Stand Down, Motherfucker!"

I'm not sure if better pay is the issue. It's more the culture that they train. Citizens are viewed more as the enemy during interaction. If McDonalds can train people to be nice for $7 an hour, the police force should be able to do the same.

The fact that these fuckwads opened fire on a dude like it was a carnival game and received no discipline speaks volumes. They probably got paid while suspended and the taxpayers had to write someone a big paycheck because of these idiots.

I agree with both of you. I think they should be compensated MUCH better and trained MUCH better too! Six figures shouldn't be unheard of, and several years of training with a literal butt ton more training in defusing tension. Make it lucrative and more enticing, then we can have a better candidacy pool, and expect top performance from those who pass the strict training/selection process. I would like to see a rigorous independent investigation into each instance when an officer fires his weapon.

Last-12-Exit

Jason P said:

Again, the Barney Fife rule should be employed. One bullet in the shirt pocket.

Cops are for the most part the D-student linebacker from your high school that flunked out of community college.

Wow, what an ignorant generalization of an entire profession.

Jason P

Last-12-Exit said:

Jason P said:

Again, the Barney Fife rule should be employed. One bullet in the shirt pocket.

Cops are for the most part the D-student linebacker from your high school that flunked out of community college.

Wow, what an ignorant generalization of an entire profession.

It is a generalization, but not so much ignorant. I don't believe their to be a great percentage of cops that were on the fence of either going to get an engineering degree or enter law enforcement when they got out of high school.

Gern Blansten

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/28/1339636/-Shocking-statement-from-Mike-Brown-autopsy-expert-gets-lost-in-the-shuffle-of-leaks-and-lies

When the St. Louis Post-Dispatch somehow obtained the confidential autopsy report from the local medical examiner, the newspaper consulted Dr. Judy Melinek to analyze the report and draw some very basic conclusions on how exactly Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Mike Brown on August 9 in Ferguson, Missouri.
Her comments about the scuffle drew so much attention that one key point she made was totally missed. She says that the gunshot to the back of Mike Brown's upper arm could have come from behind while he was fleeing the scene, as described in the final three paragraphs of an MSNBC story:

All but one of the gunshots, Melinek said, seem to have struck Brown in the front of his body, which is consistent with witnesses who said Brown had been facing Wilson when he was shot. Depending on any witnesses physical proximity to the shooting, Brown could have been turning to Wilson in surrender, stumbling toward him after being shot or charging him.
The shot to the back of Brown’s upper arm, Melinek said, suggested he could have been shot from behind.

Nearly a half-dozen witnesses say that after an initial altercation at Wilson’s car, Brown fled and that Wilson gave chase, firing at him from behind. At one point, they say, Brown turned with his hands up and Wilson fired the final, fatal shots. Unnamed sources quoted in both local and national news reports say Wilson has testified that he fired twice from his car and several times after Brown ran, turned, and then charged at him.

JC29856

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Gern Blansten

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

dignin

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

And really not much of that "story" makes any sense.

Godfather.

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?
and where these 6 witness' black brown white ? people have been lieing just to nail a cop a lot lately but it seems nobody wants to see that.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. said:

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?
and where these 6 witness' black brown white ? people have been lieing just to nail a cop a lot lately but it seems nobody wants to see that.

Godfather.

You forgot purple. Were any of these witnesses purple?

JC29856

dignin said:

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

And really not much of that "story" makes any sense.

What part? Brown went for Wilson's gun, but couldn't reach it through the window and across Wilson's body in its holster. So he thought let me run away and when Wilson starts firing at me Ill juke and jive the bullets like Eric Dickerson while running at him, then Ill get the gun to shoot him dead in broad daylight for telling me to get the fu(K out of the street.
Brown's mistake other than walking in the street was giving Wilson the I'm going for your gun face. Why else would Wilson kill him if he didn't give him the I'm going for your gun face?
This is nothing new, its all in the police report Wilson filed and it matches his grand jury testimony. You think Wilson's defense would make all this up weeks later after hearing eyewitness accounts in order to fit his story around other indisputable evidence?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

And really not much of that "story" makes any sense.

What part? Brown went for Wilson's gun, but couldn't reach it through the window and across Wilson's body in its holster. So he thought let me run away and when Wilson starts firing at me Ill juke and jive the bullets like Eric Dickerson while running at him, then Ill get the gun to shoot him dead in broad daylight for telling me to get the fu(K out of the street.
Brown's mistake other than walking in the street was giving Wilson the I'm going for your gun face. Why else would Wilson kill him if he didn't give him the I'm going for your gun face?
This is nothing new, its all in the police report Wilson filed and it matches his grand jury testimony. You think Wilson's defense would make all this up weeks later after hearing eyewitness accounts in order to fit his story around other indisputable evidence?

We agree that Brown became irate enraged he was told to get out of the middle of the street- most people do get pissed off when that happens. And even though he was feeling a little emboldened after robbing a convenience store... something tells me he was smarter than trying to act like Eric Dickerson to snatch the gun when he was built like Ron Dayne.

Jason P

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?
and where these 6 witness' black brown white ? people have been lieing just to nail a cop a lot lately but it seems nobody wants to see that.

Godfather.

You forgot purple. Were any of these witnesses purple?

I just realized that Grimace looks like a certain .... toy. Perhaps that is the origin of his name.

JC29856

Godfather. said:

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?

Godfather.

BINGO!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Jason P said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?
and where these 6 witness' black brown white ? people have been lieing just to nail a cop a lot lately but it seems nobody wants to see that.

Godfather.

You forgot purple. Were any of these witnesses purple?

I just realized that Grimace looks like a certain .... toy. Perhaps that is the origin of his name.

Ouch

Gern Blansten

dignin said:

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

And really not much of that "story" makes any sense.

how so?

Gern Blansten

Godfather. said:

so why would anybody attack or even walk towards anybody holding a gun ?
and where these 6 witness' black brown white ? people have been lieing just to nail a cop a lot lately but it seems nobody wants to see that.

Godfather.

YAHTZEE!!! Exactly...why would an 18 year old kid RUN from a cop that just shot him and then turn around in a barrage of gunfire and RUN TOWARD THE COP THAT WAS SHOOTING AT HIM? (even his buddy said that he stopped running once he either got shot again or realizing the cop was shooting at him multiple times and turned to surrender)

At least 2 of the witnesses were white construction workers. I've posted this a few times above...you should review. They couldn't believe that the cop gunned the kid down while he held his hands up.

Gern Blansten

Gern Blansten said:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/

(CNN) -- Two men, shocked at what they saw, describe an unarmed teenager with his hands up in the air as he's gunned down by a police officer.
They were contractors doing construction work in Ferguson, Missouri, on the day Michael Brown was killed.
And the men, who asked not to be identified after CNN contacted them, said they were about 50 feet away from Officer Darren Wilson when he opened fire.
An exclusive video captures their reactions during the moments just after the shooting.
"He had his f**n hands up," one of the men says in the video.
Intense clashes during Ferguson protest Protests disrupt Ferguson town meeting
Photos: Ferguson council meeting Photos: Ferguson council meeting
The man told CNN he heard one gunshot, then another shot about 30 seconds later.
"The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," the man said.
That same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw Brown's "brains come out of his head," again stating, "his hands were up."
The video shows the man raising his arms in the air -- just as, he says, Brown was doing when he was shot.
The other contractor told CNN he saw Brown running away from a police car.
Brown "put his hands up," the construction worker said, and "the officer was chasing him."
The contractor says he saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned.
The men said they didn't see how the confrontation started.
Police arrest Michael Brown protesters near interstate
Other witnesses also said teen's arms were raised
An attorney for the man who filmed the video says it was recorded 40 seconds after the shooting.
The video gives new insight into the case, which has spurred a Justice Department investigation, national debate and protests over authorities' handling of the case.
The construction workers said they don't live in Ferguson and don't know the Brown family, but their account squares with accounts from several other witnesses of the unarmed African-American teen's shooting death on August 9.
Some witnesses say the teenager assaulted the white officer at the outset and tried to grab his gun; other witnesses say Wilson was the aggressor.
A private autopsy conducted for the Brown family showed that Brown had been shot at least six times, including twice in the head.
A grand jury is hearing the case and will determine whether Wilson will face any charges.
Protesters were near Interstate 70 and outside the police headquarters Wednesday, pushing for Gov. Jay Nixon to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Brown's death.
Analysts debate video's impact
CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin says the video could play an important role in the case.
"You have practically in real time someone discussing what they saw, and that's just good evidence," he said on CNN's "AC360."
Sunny Hostin, a CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, says it's important to note that several witnesses are telling the same story.
"They're saying that he was running from the police officer and that his hands were up," she said. "I don't know what other witness testimony at this point or account we have to hear. The bottom line is having your hands up is the universal sign for surrender."
Neil Bruntrager, general counsel for the St. Louis Police Officers Association, cautioned against rushing to judgment. Witness accounts are important, he said, but need to be evaluated with all the evidence.
"I'm not saying disregard them. I'm saying that we will judge their credibility by all of the evidence, not by one statement, and certainly not by a 15-second video clip," he said.

I don't discount that it is possible that Brown was grabbing for his gun....I just don't find it likely.

Regardless....the "young adult" was running away from the officer without a weapon and he was killed for that. Judge/Jury/Executioner

please review....eyewitnesses here Godfather. Call them liars if you want but they were within 50 feet of the whole incident.

dignin

Gern Blansten said:

dignin said:

Gern Blansten said:

JC29856 said:

Brown went for Wilson's gun holstered on his right side through the drivers window, was shot in the hand, took off running, then turned around when he heard gun shuts and ran at Wilson before he was killed. End of story. Makes perfect sense.

Except for having 6 eyewitness
that say otherwise

And really not much of that "story" makes any sense.

how so?

Wilson's story doesn't make sense to me.

JC29856

I wonder how many defendants testify before grand juries? I wonder how many defendants have four hour testimonies before grand juries?

callen

Brown threatened the officer and the officer over reacted and shot him. Both at fault. The officer should be removed from force and pay restitution and year in jail for his mis judgement. Feel Wilson at one point during incident felt his life was in jeopardy and though it then deescalated understand his heightened emotional state. Brown rolled the dice fkn with a cop and lost.

callen

JC29856 said:

I wonder how many defendants testify before grand juries? I wonder how many defendants have four hour testimonies before grand juries?

Is Wilson given this opportunity?

Last-12-Exit

callen said:

Brown threatened the officer and the officer over reacted and shot him. Both at fault. The officer should be removed from force and pay restitution and year in jail for his mis judgement. Feel Wilson at one point during incident felt his life was in jeopardy and though it then deescalated understand his heightened emotional state. Brown rolled the dice fkn with a cop and lost.

I doubt he serves a day in jail.

callen

Think the same.

We're toxicology reports released on Brown?

muskydan

Buckle up Boys and girls…NOV 10 is when they will be announcing the Grand Jury verdict of No Civil Rights Violation. Numerous reason why they chose this date, but the biggest being colder weather. The "Locals" don't take too kindly to colder weather in them parts to due what they do, so they have been delaying it for over a month now. There will be numerous restrictions on entering Ferguson w/ the National Guard on hand checking ID's for residency. So beware of your surroundings and where you will be on that date for obvious reasons…No matter what city you live in.

JC29856

callen said:

JC29856 said:

I wonder how many defendants testify before grand juries? I wonder how many defendants have four hour testimonies before grand juries?

Is Wilson given this opportunity?

What? Wilson is the defendant, I'm referring to his testimony.
Defendants rarely testify at their own grand jury hearings.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'll never forget this response in LA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UymAKaUquzs

Bunch of fuckin' idiots (to put it as nicely as I can).

muskydan

Wow, I haven't seen footage of that in years. I wish I had a camera on me when I worked the west side of Chicago when Obama won the first time around. You would have thought he lost. Mayor Daley did not allow the media in the ghettos to film the behavior of its residents. No pictures in the paper and if you wrote a story about it in your rag you would be ostracized. Typical Chicago way stuff.

muskydan

National Guard moving into Ferguson today, ruling coming Monday most likely... As I was saying in my earlier posts watch your surroundings Tomr., no matter where you will be. So sad govt has to waste so much manpower and $ to help keep a certain element from buring their own town down. Makes no sence.

rgambs

muskydan said:

National Guard moving into Ferguson today, ruling coming Monday most likely... As I was saying in my earlier posts watch your surroundings Tomr., no matter where you will be. So sad govt has to waste so much manpower and $ to help keep a certain element from buring their own town down. Makes no sence.

I don't know about where you are from, but in my neck of the woods "certain element" is the phrase racist people use when they are in polite company and don't want to drop the "N" word.