Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Leezestarr313 said:

    I am trying to understand both sides of this whole discussion, but reading headlines like this is making me sick in a way I have never felt before. I am a German, and maybe that is why I feel this way.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/synagogue-in-germany-attacked-with-molotov-cocktails/article19818177/

    Can't there be any peaceful solution to this whole conflict?

    According to Byrnzie this is understandable and just a deflection. Pay no heed.
  • Leezestarr313
    Leezestarr313 Temple of the cat Posts: 14,444
    edited July 2014
    I think what bothers me with some of the comments in here is that fact that people are saying "the Jews did this and that". It is not the Jews. It is the Israeli government. Judaism is a religion, not a race or a nationality. There are stupid, unreflected people out there who have not learned anything from history or just don't care. They will use this sentiment as a justification for violence, which has nothing to do with the conflict at all. When somebody starts feeding this "thought tendency", we will end up with a situation that the world had to face some timo ago. This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.
    Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Leezestarr313 said:

    This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    I find it a little strange that you seem to be more disgusted about a kid throwing molotov cocktails at an empty synagogue and some benign comments on a message board than you do about what is going on in Gaza right now. Out of all the headlines coming out of Gaza this is what makes you more sick? Help me understand. Honest question.


  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,680
    edited July 2014
    dignin said:

    Leezestarr313 said:

    This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    I find it a little strange that you seem to be more disgusted about a kid throwing molotov cocktails at an empty synagogue and some benign comments on a message board than you do about what is going on in Gaza right now. Out of all the headlines coming out of Gaza this is what makes you more sick? Help me understand. Honest question.


    How do you figure what she said minimizes how she feels about what's happening in Gaza?? That's a very unfair assumption. Is there not room in the range of human emotion and intellect to feel something and think something about two or more things at once? Where did you get the idea that she's "more" disgusted or as disgusted or anything else?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    Leezestarr313 said:

    This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    I find it a little strange that you seem to be more disgusted about a kid throwing molotov cocktails at an empty synagogue and some benign comments on a message board than you do about what is going on in Gaza right now. Out of all the headlines coming out of Gaza this is what makes you more sick? Help me understand. Honest question.


    How do you figure what she said minimizes how she feels about what's happening in Gaza?? That's a very unfair assumption. Is there not room in the range of human emotion and intellect to feel something and think something about two or more things at once?
    That is why I am asking them to clarify when they say something like this "but reading headlines like this is making me sick in a way I have never felt before"


  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited July 2014
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    Racism is not understandable at this or any other time.

    Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.

    Yes it is. It's not acceptable, but it's understandable. Whilst the Israeli's are dropping bombs on schools, hospitals, and children's playgrounds it's understandable that this will inspire acts of racism against Jews. Therefore, if Jews really wish to attack the root causes of racism towards Jews, then one of the things they can do is contribute to trying to end the illegal occupation and all of it's attendant violence.
    Let's go with this.
    You have earlier called Israel racist against Palestinians. If we use your logic then why couldn't one borrow your words and say: If Palestinians really wish to attack the root cause of racism towards Palestinians then one of the things they can do is contribute to trying to end suicide bombings, terrorism and rocket attacks on innocent civilians.

    http://youtu.be/HRA0NKQ0k6E

    Understandable
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited July 2014
    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    Leezestarr313 said:

    This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    I find it a little strange that you seem to be more disgusted about a kid throwing molotov cocktails at an empty synagogue and some benign comments on a message board than you do about what is going on in Gaza right now. Out of all the headlines coming out of Gaza this is what makes you more sick? Help me understand. Honest question.


    How do you figure what she said minimizes how she feels about what's happening in Gaza?? That's a very unfair assumption. Is there not room in the range of human emotion and intellect to feel something and think something about two or more things at once? Where did you get the idea that she's "more" disgusted or as disgusted or anything else?
    I'm sorry but I got the same thing dignin got out of her post. And she has absolutely EVERY right to have that opinion. I mean if u care so much about religious places, how many mosques has Israel destroyed in the last 3 weeks? How many schools WITH children in them? How many UN safe house WITH civilians in it? But an empty synagogue? I'm just saying.

    And PJ Soul, I believe the reason was made about her comment by dignin because with ALL the things being posted on this thread and all over the world, something so minimal as any empty synagogue with no casualties got her to speak out. Which she has EVERY right to do.

    I find it more troubling that if the story about the idf soldiers coming out and saying they were ordered to shoot to kill does come out to being true, the actual threat that was made in comment about his life being in danger in the country he's sworn to protect. That's pretty fucked up, just for speaking out. Now why would they or he speak out if it wasn't true? What are they gonna gain?
    Post edited by badbrains on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BS44325 said:

    Byrnzie said:

    BS44325 said:

    So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

    People are free to make up their own minds based on the facts. Either the fact of 86% of Israeli's supporting the current massacre, or the fact of Israeli's in the streets cheering the murder of Palestinian children.

    BS44325 said:

    When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

    Looks like your English comprehension skills aren't up to scratch? Do you know the meaning of the word 'understandable'?

    http://youtu.be/R7WAoczRV_k


    Understandable
    So you agree with me now then?

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BS44325 said:

    According to Byrnzie this is understandable and just a deflection. Pay no heed.

    According to BS44325 it's not understandable. He pretends that he's surprised that the mass murder of Palestinians fuels hatred against Jews.

  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    PJ_Soul said:

    dignin said:

    Leezestarr313 said:

    This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    I find it a little strange that you seem to be more disgusted about a kid throwing molotov cocktails at an empty synagogue and some benign comments on a message board than you do about what is going on in Gaza right now. Out of all the headlines coming out of Gaza this is what makes you more sick? Help me understand. Honest question.


    How do you figure what she said minimizes how she feels about what's happening in Gaza?? That's a very unfair assumption. Is there not room in the range of human emotion and intellect to feel something and think something about two or more things at once? Where did you get the idea that she's "more" disgusted or as disgusted or anything else?
    I'm not sure if there is any point PJSoul. I have said the exact same thing a million times and it seems if you bring up Hamas or active anti-semitism it is just a deflection from the real atrocity.
  • Leezestarr313
    Leezestarr313 Temple of the cat Posts: 14,444
    edited July 2014
    I am anti violence and anti war. Never would I say that it is okay to be violent against children or any innocent person. I do not even take a side in this whole discussion. I would love peace for everybody. All I was saying is that, being a German, reading about "side effects" that this conflict is starting to have in areas that are not even affected by it is making me sick. Because of the history of my country. And I feel bothered by the way of how some of the comments in here are worded. Blame it on my German upbringing.
    Thank you, PJ_Soul.
    Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    Leezestarr313 said:

    I think what bothers me with some of the comments in here is that fact that people are saying "the Jews did this and that". It is not the Jews. It is the Israeli government. Judaism is a religion, not a race or a nationality. There are stupid, unreflected people out there who have not learned anything from history or just don't care. They will use this sentiment as a justification for violence, which has nothing to do with the conflict at all. When somebody starts feeding this "thought tendency", we will end up with a situation that the world had to face some timo ago. This is what my major problem is with some of the comments in here. This is why people think that some of the comments in here sound antisemitic. Because they fucking do. And it is disgusting.

    Over 1,200 Palestinians killed, most of them children, and you're suggesting that it's a shock and a surprise this is fueling some racial hatred against Jews? Really? And if someone points out that Israel's latest round of slaughtering civilians will understandably give rise to racism against Jews, then they too are racists?

    Wow! Mainstream U.S T.V must really be doing a superb job.

    Why don't we take the video that BS44325 posted? It contains a Muslim man calling for exterminating Jews. As we speak Israel is exterminating Palestinians. But you're more shocked and disgusted by somebody's words than by Israel's actions?

    Watch this video. It contains footage of a man interviewed after his wife and children were murdered by the Israeli's. He says he wants to strap on a suicide belt and kill Israeli's. Is that shocking and disgusting to you? Is it something that you cannot understand? 02:07 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkawVngYlIs

    Therefore, would it be reasonable for somebody to conclude that you regard the life of an Israeli above that of a Palestinian, and that therefore your accusation of racism is in fact a projection of your own racism towards Arabs?
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Leezestarr313 said:

    I am anti violence and anti war. Never would I say that it is okay to be violent against children or any innocent person. I do not even take a side in this whole discussion. I would love peace for everybody. All I was saying is that, being a German, reading about "side effects" that this conflict is starting to have in areas that are not even affected by it is making me sick. Because of the history of my country. And I feel bothered by the way of how some of the comments in here are worded. Blame it on my German upbringing.

    Thanks for the clarification.

  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,379
    edited July 2014
    Edited
    Post edited by benjs on
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  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    And who's been blaming the "Jews?". I know I've been saying Israel from day 1 because I can tell the difference between "Jews" and "Israelis Governement."
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Byrnzie said:

    BS44325 said:

    Byrnzie said:

    BS44325 said:

    So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

    People are free to make up their own minds based on the facts. Either the fact of 86% of Israeli's supporting the current massacre, or the fact of Israeli's in the streets cheering the murder of Palestinian children.

    BS44325 said:

    When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

    Looks like your English comprehension skills aren't up to scratch? Do you know the meaning of the word 'understandable'?

    http://youtu.be/R7WAoczRV_k


    Understandable
    So you agree with me now then?

    No. That video is not understandable. One should not even try to understand it. It is pure filth and evil and has infected your movement. People like you have excused it as understandable for far too long that it has consumed everything positive from that part of the world. Israel could leave all of "Palestine" tomorrow and what would you have left? Within two weeks it would be another caliphate with no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no freedom for women, no freedom for gays and certainly no freedom for rock and roll. Post after post you criticize Israel for the horrors they have inflicted on Palestinian children when the ultimate horror inflicted is the future you have left them by being so understandable.
  • Leezestarr313
    Leezestarr313 Temple of the cat Posts: 14,444
    edited July 2014
    benjs said:


    badbrains, see above... I read this more as the fact that it's particularly visible for Leezestarr313, where the hatred had formerly been further removed. Despite the horrific images of Gaza in its current state, if I watched one man attacked here, it might take over in my mind for a while, and I don't think it would even be a conscious decision - it's just your mind reacting to the nearness of an event. I don't want to speak on her behalf, but I would venture a guess that her disgust would be no different had it been an anti-Palestinian or anti-Arab sentiment.

    Yes, thank you. This is not the one incident that has me speaking out. I am following this thread. I keep informing myself. The fact that I don't participate in this flaming discussion does not mean that I do not know about it. This thread has been very tight when it comes to opinions. It is clear where the main commenters are standing. I do not want to engage in the discussion, I just wanted to share my personal little perception of something that sprung out of this conflict and got me thinking´because yes, it has a certain nearness to it. Guess what - I'm still anti-war. Oh, and I do not turn to U.S. tv for political information. It is a language issue. I feel better informed reading news in my native language.

    Post edited by Leezestarr313 on
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    '...the real scandal today is not antisemitism but the importance it is given. Israel has committed war crimes. It has implicated Jews generally in these crimes, and Jews generally have hastened to implicate themselves. This has provoked hatred against Jews. Why not? Some of this hatred is racist, some isn’t, but who cares? Why should we pay any attention to this issue at all? Is the fact that Israel’s race war has provoked bitter anger of any importance besides the war itself? Is the remote possibility that somewhere, sometime, somehow, this hatred may in theory, possibly kill some Jews of any importance besides the brutal, actual, physical persecution of Palestinians, and the hundreds of thousands of votes for Arabs to be herded into transit camps? Oh, but I forgot. Drop everything. Someone spray-painted antisemitic slogans on a synagogue.' - Michael Neumann

    Israel's apologists love to play the racism card, because now that the majority of people - those whose main source of information isn't mainstream U.S T.V - have become aware of the facts relating to this conflict, it's all they have.

    And we now have Israeli's squawking about the potential for another European holocaust due to the massive demonstrations taking place across Europe in protest at Israel's latest massacre of Palestinians.

    You want to talk about 'disgusting'? I'll tell you what I think is disgusting: using the victims of the holocaust to score political points and deflect attention from the deliberate slaughter of Palestinian civilians.



    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    BS44325 said:

    No. That video is not understandable. One should not even try to understand it. It is pure filth and evil and has infected your movement. People like you have excused it as understandable for far too long that it has consumed everything positive from that part of the world. Israel could leave all of "Palestine" tomorrow and what would you have left? Within two weeks it would be another caliphate with no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no freedom for women, no freedom for gays and certainly no freedom for rock and roll. Post after post you criticize Israel for the horrors they have inflicted on Palestinian children when the ultimate horror inflicted is the future you have left them by being so understandable.

    Ah, the truth at last! BS44325 hates Muslims, and he justifies the slaughter of Palestinians with reference to an imaginary future.

    And he has the audacity to accuse me of being racist? Really?



  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited July 2014
    Keep deflecting. If you think you can silence us critics of Israel's race war against the Palestinians, then you're mistaken.

    It's not the critics of Israel's slaughter of Arabs that are the racists, it's you Islamophobes that are the racists.

    You are on the wrong side of history, just as the U.S was on the wrong side of history with it's full support of Apartheid South Africa.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
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