Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

Byrnzie

JimmyV said:

"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"

That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.

It needs to stop. All of it.

Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really?

'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.

'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.

Righteo.

JimmyV

Byrnzie said:

JimmyV said:

"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"

That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.

It needs to stop. All of it.

Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really?

'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.

'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.

Righteo.

As I have said before, I don't believe he was talking exclusively about Israel and/or Palestine. His point was larger than that.

backseatLover12

eldarion75 said:

Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....

Maybe you and Byrnzie didn't read the entire thread, but it's supposed to be above the anger and the in-fighting...

backseatLover12

Byrnzie said:

eldarion75 said:

Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....

Yeah, or maybe we should follow his/her advice and just bury our heads in the sand?

(Though as far as I know, talking about peace and love and flower arranging never solved any conflicts in the World. I might be wrong about this, but I'm under the impression that speaking out, protesting, demonstrating, petitioning, e.t.c, is what works to change things. But like I say, I know nothing. How was the Apartheid regime in South Africa brought down? Did people sing John Lennon's 'Imagine' in the direction of that country?).

Yeah, I'm cynical, and angry...and tired.

Night night.

And how's that working for you?

Call me crazy, but arguing with passion on a band website forum doesn't get one very far in the realm of progress…. It just makes one angrier.

backseatLover12

JimmyV said:

Byrnzie said:

JimmyV said:

"With about a dozen assorted ongoing conflicts in the news everyday"

That is probably an understatement. The situation in Gaza is an ongoing tragedy and a disgrace, but it remains but one conflict in a series on this planet. If we insist on making what Eddie said pertain only to Gaza we are at best missing and at worst perverting his point. Too many conflicts and too much war. Too many warlords and too many war profiteers. Too many innocents killed, and too much blood money changing hands.

It needs to stop. All of it.

Are you still pretending that he wasn't talking about Israel-Palestine in Milton Keynes? Really?

'We don't give you our tax dollars to drop bombs on babies'.

'Get the fuck out of land that doesn't belong to you....', e.t.c.

Righteo.

As I have said before, I don't believe he was talking exclusively about Israel and/or Palestine. His point was larger than that.

I agree, although it is easy to see the connection. It's almost as if that when you are bogged down in details involving sides and whatnot, in seeing the big picture which Eddie was talking about, it takes much more effort to see things from that different perspective. Especially when you can't remove yourself from the anger consuming you.

brianlux

backseatLover12 said:

eldarion75 said:

Byrnzie, keep posting the articles...it's exactly that sort of negative remark by the other guy telling you what you can/cannot post thats whats wrong with all this....

Maybe you and Byrnzie didn't read the entire thread, but it's supposed to be above the anger and the in-fighting...

Exactly. This is ultimate irony- a thread that is supposed to be about being anti-war/pro peace that continues to be about anger and bloodshed. Instead of talking about peace we get one photo after another of dead babies and shit. Not that that isn't important. Not that we shouldn't care. But that's not where this thread started- that's not what this thread is about. And it's certainly not about us fighting with each other.

brianlux

What Ed said:
Currently, I’m full of hope.

To see flags of so many different nations,
and to have these huge crowds gathered peacefully and joyfully is
the exact inspiration behind the words I felt the need to emphatically relay.

to make a plea for more peace in the world

The majority of humans on this planet are more consumed by the
pursuit of love, health, family, food and shelter than any kind of war.

We must be capable of
resolving conflicts without bloodshed.

I do know we are
better off when we reach out to each other.

Thank you, Ed.

BS44325

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.

Byrnzie said:

hedonist said:

Byrnzie said:

backseatLover12 said:

I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.

Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.

There must be something wrong with me.

So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.

For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.

The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325

So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.

josevolution

eldarion75 said:

is this actually making anyone else sick? like im having trouble sleeping...feeling guilty for enjoyin a walk with my dog...its so hard that we can go about our day to day while this is happenning..its totally f*cked up

Yes this it's sickening that the world is just standing around doing nada to help fucking unreal ....

rr165892

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.

Byrnzie said:

hedonist said:

Byrnzie said:

backseatLover12 said:

I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.

Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.

There must be something wrong with me.

So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.

For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.

The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325

So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.

I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.

badbrains

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.

Byrnzie said:

hedonist said:

Byrnzie said:

backseatLover12 said:

I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.

Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.

There must be something wrong with me.

So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.

For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.

The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325

So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.

I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.

Ya, that got me to, wtf? I'm a racist? Even RR sees I'm not and we've gotten into it. Hey RR got to thank u for this. Def threw me for a loop. I appreciate it man.

badbrains

josevolution said:

eldarion75 said:

is this actually making anyone else sick? like im having trouble sleeping...feeling guilty for enjoyin a walk with my dog...its so hard that we can go about our day to day while this is happenning..its totally f*cked up

Yes this it's sickening that the world is just standing around doing nada to help fucking unreal ....

No doubt, feel like I'm self polluting myself with this but I keep telling myself that it has to be said. People have to know what's going on. And then I see how nothing is getting done and the shit feeling comes roaring back.

benjs

BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.

The global population hates those who bring death inherently.
The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly.
The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF.
The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.

It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.

JimmyV

I would agree that anger towards Israelis is completely understandable. If you want to carry that forward to Jews worldwide, based on public displays and blind support of Israel's actions such as we have seen, that too I can understand. But racism? That is a bridge too far for me. Racism is not understandable at this or any other time.

Racism against Muslims after 9/11 was not understandable. It was deplorable and shameful, and it remains so today. Let us keep a little bit of perspective.

With all that said I will repeat what I said a few days ago: I wish charges of antisemitism and hasbara both could be left out of the conversation. I don't believe I have seen a clear example of either anywhere in these threads.

rr165892

badbrains said:

rr165892 said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

JimmyV said:

eldarion75 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

eldarion75 said:

Hamas is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it accepts 10 conditions. The Jerusalem Post reports, based on an Israeli Channel 2 newscast.

1. Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.
2. Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.
3. Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.
4. Establishing an international seaport and airport which would be under U.N. supervision.
5. Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.
6. Internationalizing the Rafah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.
7. International forces on the borders.
8. Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al Aqsa Mosque.
9. Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement.
10. Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Are these demands unreasonable or extreme ?

You are extraordinarily stupid if you think those mean what they do as they are written or that they are remotely reasonable based on what they would actually mean.

Oh, and why would Israel be responsible for building an airport and seaport if they are "vacating the premises?"

This is almost as bad as the - their bombs suck so dont use your bombs ethos. Yikes.

Bizarre how the pro-israel crowd cant make a point without being insulting or trying to be...i didnt write those demands they came from an israeli newspaper...read the whole thing next time, you just make yourself look extraordinarily stupid if you dont.

Let's be honest, supporters from both sides are throwing insults at each other.

I havent been..don't see the point, it's a waste of time. We don't 'win' cos we insulted someone.

Not saying you have been. Reading through these threads, though, there are haymakers being thrown both ways.

I've been guilty of this no doubt. But I won't backtrack or NOT stand by what I wrote. That's just who I am. I usually never like to start throwing haymakers, but when thrown at me, I retaliate, and some times come off as an asshole. Kind of like Israel. Only with words instead of bunker busters or white phosphorus. As aldarion said, it's a very heated discussion and both sides have people who are very passionate about this very thing. If I offended anyone on here, fuck off and get over it. Know I meant that with love.

Byrnzie said:

hedonist said:

Byrnzie said:

backseatLover12 said:

I feel that your angry, arrogant approach solves nothing and just keeps you angry.

Yeah, it's strange that witnessing men, women, children and babies slaughtered by racists should make me angry.

There must be something wrong with me.

So be angry then. Others are too, you know. Maybe not for your specific reasons - that can't be so difficult to get.

For whatever it's worth...maybe ease up on taking that anger out on the people you're discussing this with right here.

The only people I get angry with are those who try and excuse and justify the massacre, or with people who try and label me as a racist - PJ Soul, BS44325

So when you label Israelis as racist, as you just did above, that is ok because it is based on "fact". No one should be angered or outraged because you have a handy link to some website of truth.

When I out you as a racist based on your own words; "Racism against Jews is perfectly understandable at this point in time. Only a fool would believe otherwise." well that is the ultimate insult and cannot stand!

Take a second to think about this before you respond as I am sure you will. As I said earlier...criticism of the State of Israel is perfectly justifiable. I absolutely defend freedom of all speech. It is not a deflection though to ask for those who seek justice for the Palestinian people to denounce the jew hatred in their midst.

I've had my share of heated exchanges with Badbrains.Although we don't see eye to eye on many issues,keeping things fair he has not been a Rascist.He is passionate about his cause and is pretty much out front with his thinking,but I wouldn't confuse his delivery with hatred.

Ya, that got me to, wtf? I'm a racist? Even RR sees I'm not and we've gotten into it. Hey RR got to thank u for this. Def threw me for a loop. I appreciate it man.

Its never been personal BB ,I told you that.And it's important that everyone at least keep it from getting that way.These are the same people we stand together with at a PJ concerts for fuck sakeYou know the ones who hold our spots on the rail and go on beer runs and have each others back.Like we are all one big dysfunctional family.We just has issues that we see from different points of view sometimes.

badbrains

Why would u hit the media building where ALL the international media offices are? Why target them? I think I mite have an idea why. So let's see, hospitals, schools, media buildings, kids playing on the beach, kids playing in parks on "their" Christmas, horses, donkeys, cows, did I forget something? What ISNT a target for the idf?

https://twitter.com/lisang/status/493924147689701376

benjs

badbrains said:

Why would u hit the media building where ALL the international media offices are? Why target them? I think I mite have an idea why. So let's see, hospitals, schools, media buildings, kids playing on the beach, kids playing in parks on "their" Christmas, horses, donkeys, cows, did I forget something? What ISNT a target for the idf?

https://twitter.com/lisang/status/493924147689701376

This is absolutely sick. How anyone could claim that this is what 'defense' looks like is so far beyond me.

josevolution

benjs said:

BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.

The global population hates those who bring death inherently.
The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly.
The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF.
The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.

It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.

I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad

benjs

josevolution said:

benjs said:

BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.

The global population hates those who bring death inherently.
The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly.
The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF.
The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.

It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.

I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad

Jose, my friend, hate begets hate begets hate, and the cycle continues. To anyone who supports peace in the region - I am so, so sorry for not getting involved sooner: as a privileged human being living in a safe zone, I am beyond ashamed of that. Religion doesn't matter. Nationality doesn't matter. Now is the time for global patriotism, where we protect our own.

badbrains

josevolution said:

benjs said:

BS44325, regrettably, as I believe I've stated here before, I completely agree with Byrnzie that the hatred of Jews is understandable at this point in time.

The global population hates those who bring death inherently.
The news reports show death after death within Gaza at the hands of the IDF predominantly.
The world's Zionists typically share pride in the IDF.
The world largely sees Jews and Zionists being synonymous.

It is completely understandable, with those facts, how the situation in Israel can lead to hatred of Jews.

I have to add that along with this scenario you present you have to take into account of how many young Palestinian kids will be filled with hate from this event going forward you can't make kids not hate once they have experienced the gross negligence for life like we have witnessed this past few weeks , i don't see how they get passed this i'm sick just thinking about how those young kids feel right now filled with hate ...this is so sad

Exactly, and don't they have think tanks there? Doesn't EVERY government have them? Didn't they think this would be the outcome, more anger and hatred towards "Israel?" Killing an entire family except 1 son, what do you think is gonna happen to that son? Do you think he's gonna hand out dates during holidays?