Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings
Comments
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DS1119 wrote:Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
DS1119 wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:DS1119 wrote:
Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.
What he wrote doesn't change the facts of what happened. :?With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
peacefrompaul wrote:DS1119 wrote:comebackgirl wrote:Cool thanks for doing the legwork
I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?
Good enough?
http://www.datamasher.org/mash-ups/fire ... #table-tab
Well there you go.The chart also doesn't take into account illegal and legally obtained weapons.
Clearly just on a numbers game the cars are a much bigger problem...and gun control is all about saving lives right?
So lets go after the bigger problem first. Look at all of the lives that would be saved just by banning cars. Get your bikes ready people!
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gimmesometruth27 wrote:DS1119 wrote:Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country.
I think people in this country have equal rights until proven wrong.0 -
DS1119 wrote:
You have looked at murder rtaes across the World right b.ased on population? The US is at the lower end of that actually...well below countries that don't allow LEGALLY POSSESSED FIREARMS!:fp:
Umm... not sure where you get your info from. Here is a link to a table from the UNODC (though in an article from the Guardian). Whilst you are correct in saying that the US may not be at the top (check out the countries before and after), it is the first western country on the list far 'ahead' from others. US 5 per 100.000, next 'western' country Luxembourg at 2.5, Canada at 1.8 and Australia at 1.2. Also look at the map - see which countries have the same colour (therefore similar homicide rates) to the US. Eye-opening, isn't it?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... rate-unodcPost edited by redrock on0 -
DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:DS1119 wrote:Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country.
I think people in this country have equal rights until proven wrong.
and if you are a conviced felon, which are usually violent crimes, you should be able to purchase guns??
as a felon you can not vote, but you should be able to buy guns???"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
DS1119 wrote:
With a sizable opposition, obviously.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
pro gun supporters on this thread are mostly posting 'facts' about gun control and mass shootings with a severe lack of evidence or links that says lapse gun control leads to less murders. Where else in the western world has their been the amount of mass murders via guns and and many murders relating to shootings?
Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense' especially when other countries with just as much a violent history and violent weapon access (both legal and illegal) have AN EXTREMELY smaller percentage of deaths caused by guns. I think the pro gun culture and the twisted opinion that they have the 'right' to bear arms is a major reason why mass shootings keep happening..
Pro gun supporters blame the shooters mental illness when in not all cases are these people mentally ill.. they blame the family when most of the time they come from regular families in suburban neighborhoods and lastly the blame liberals because we are against arming every citizen lol.. it's madness. it's got to stop how many deaths can occur before people start taking notice?I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 080 -
Zoso wrote:pro gun supporters on this thread are mostly posting 'facts' about gun control and mass shootings with a severe lack of evidence or links that says lapse gun control leads to less murders. Where else in the western world has their been the amount of mass murders via guns and and many murders relating to shootings?
Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense' especially when other countries with just as much a violent history and violent weapon access (both legal and illegal) have AN EXTREMELY smaller percentage of deaths caused by guns. I think the pro gun culture and the twisted opinion that they have the 'right' to bear arms is a major reason why mass shootings keep happening..
Pro gun supporters blame the shooters mental illness when in not all cases are these people mentally ill.. they blame the family when most of the time they come from regular families in suburban neighborhoods and lastly the blame liberals because we are against arming every citizen lol.. it's madness. it's got to stop how many deaths can occur before people start taking notice?
I asked your last question earlier in the thread and I was serious. What would it take? A thousand kids in school? What if during Monday night football a guy pulls a ak out and takes out 100 innocent people. Would that be enough? Insanity.This show, another show, a show here and a show there.0 -
ComeToTX wrote:Zoso wrote:pro gun supporters on this thread are mostly posting 'facts' about gun control and mass shootings with a severe lack of evidence or links that says lapse gun control leads to less murders. Where else in the western world has their been the amount of mass murders via guns and and many murders relating to shootings?
Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense' especially when other countries with just as much a violent history and violent weapon access (both legal and illegal) have AN EXTREMELY smaller percentage of deaths caused by guns. I think the pro gun culture and the twisted opinion that they have the 'right' to bear arms is a major reason why mass shootings keep happening..
Pro gun supporters blame the shooters mental illness when in not all cases are these people mentally ill.. they blame the family when most of the time they come from regular families in suburban neighborhoods and lastly the blame liberals because we are against arming every citizen lol.. it's madness. it's got to stop how many deaths can occur before people start taking notice?
I asked your last question earlier in the thread and I was serious. What would it take? A thousand kids in school? What if during Monday night football a guy pulls a ak out and takes out 100 innocent people. Would that be enough? Insanity.
I think people who inherently believe that guns are the answer to protect will always find another reason or excuse on why a mass murder occured where it has something to do with bad apples, bad parenting, obama, liberals, mental illness, illegal weapons, violent past... some people don't see anti gun laws that are actually working in other similar countries working in america for some reason or another and I don't understand. weapons that are used in mass shooting SHOULDN'T be in the hands of the common person.. I personally don't think you should be able to apply for a gun license for the reason of self defense.. that is the first thing that needs to be changed. the whole gun loving mindset in america has to be changed before their can be change.I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 080 -
DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:DS1119 wrote:Same reason they have all of the other rights in this country.
I think people in this country have equal rights until proven wrong.
But haven't these already been 'proven wrong' (well, at least the convicted felons)?0 -
Zoso wrote:Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense'
Maybe someone would like to take up this challenge and finally give everyone here an answer. What is a 'responsible, law abiding citizen' that can obtain a gun legally? What makes him/her more responsible than others? How is one 'responsible'? Do all 'responsible' owners have full training (physical and psychological) on gun use? Is the rest of the family 'safety trained'? How is one 'responsible' (say with gun storage) but still be prepared for the unexpected in case of a home intrusion of any kind (ie having the time to unlock cabinet where gun is stored - maybe in a different room - go to the second cabinet with ammo and get that, load gun, etc.)? Difficult, isn't it? Therefore if one cannot store guns safely without compromising his/her 'home defense', one is no longer 'responsible'? I guess law abiding is easier to define - would be one that would never break any laws whatsoever - does this person really exist?
Not being flippant or anything, just trying to understand what some people mean when they use certain terms.0 -
why give everyone the benefit of the doubt and their right to bear arms when you know it's going to happen again????
Same rule as the DUI issue.. It's illegal to drink and drive because it's a death awaiting to happen... why isn't their an amendement that says 'have the right to drink and drive'.. well because it's too dangerous..
it's also too dangerous to own dangerous weapons especially with minimal laws and control. I guess my overall point is the right to bear arms is more important then human life in america.. the idea that the evil government would take my gun away is more alarming then more deaths... it's insane I can't even comprehend.I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 080 -
redrock wrote:Zoso wrote:Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense'
Maybe someone would like to take up this challenge and finally give everyone here an answer. What is a 'responsible, law abiding citizen' that can obtain a gun legally? What makes him/her more responsible than others? How is one 'responsible'? Do all 'responsible' owners have full training (physical and psychological) on gun use? Is the rest of the family 'safety trained'? How is one 'responsible' (say with gun storage) but still be prepared for the unexpected in case of a home intrusion of any kind (ie having the time to unlock cabinet where gun is stored - maybe in a different room - go to the second cabinet with ammo and get that, load gun, etc.)? Difficult, isn't it? Therefore if one cannot store guns safely without compromising his/her 'home defense', one is no longer 'responsible'? I guess law abiding is easier to define - would be one that would never break any laws whatsoever - does this person really exist?
Not being flippant or anything, just trying to understand what some people mean when they use certain terms.
I don't think training has anything to do with this as anyone can snap at any time and if they have access to guns or other weapons they will use it. Known crim's are hardly ever reponsible for the mass murders as it's normally the pissed off worker who got fired, or the college student that is failing.I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 080 -
redrock wrote:Zoso wrote:Someone on this thread keeps saying what they are saying is 'common' sense'.. I wish people were more careful about telling others what they are saying is 'common sense'
Maybe someone would like to take up this challenge and finally give everyone here an answer. What is a 'responsible, law abiding citizen' that can obtain a gun legally? What makes him/her more responsible than others? How is one 'responsible'? Do all 'responsible' owners have full training (physical and psychological) on gun use? Is the rest of the family 'safety trained'? How is one 'responsible' (say with gun storage) but still be prepared for the unexpected in case of a home intrusion of any kind (ie having the time to unlock cabinet where gun is stored - maybe in a different room - go to the second cabinet with ammo and get that, load gun, etc.)? Difficult, isn't it? Therefore if one cannot store guns safely without compromising his/her 'home defense', one is no longer 'responsible'? I guess law abiding is easier to define - would be one that would never break any laws whatsoever - does this person really exist?
Not being flippant or anything, just trying to understand what some people mean when they use certain terms.
what I'm trying to say is training in gun use isn't going to make them less likely or more likely to participate in a mass shooting..I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 080 -
Zoso wrote:the right to bear arms is more important then human life
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Inherently every human being has the right to live, no? How does that right get so blatantly trampled on so often, by the right to bear arms?"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."0 -
Meanwhile...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/au ... -terrorism
Sikh temple shooting: six worshippers killed in act of US 'domestic terrorism'
Gunman shoots senior figures at Wisconsin temple, killing six and injuring three others, before being shot dead by police
Matt Williams in New York
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 5 August 2012
A gunman shot dead six worshippers at a Sikh temple before opening fire on officers in what police described as an act of US "domestic terrorism".
The attack began shortly before 10.30am local time on Sunday as dozens of people were gathering at a place of worship in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.
After killing a number of people inside the temple, the gunman then fired on a police officer who was helping a wounded victim outside the building. A second officer fired on the suspect, who died at the scene. The wounded officer – who was shot multiple times – was taken to hospital for surgery. He is expected to survive.
At a press conference held outside the temple on Sunday, Oak Creek police chief John Edwards said the "heroic actions" of the two officers "stopped this from being worse than it could have been", noting that many people had gathered for worship at the time of the attack.
Edwards said that authorities were treating the killing as a "domestic terrorism incident", but added that it was too early to suggest a motive. Some Sikh members of the community told the media they feared that it was a hate crime. "We are at the beginning stages of this investigation," Edwards said. The FBI has taken over the criminal inquiry.
It is thought that around 50 people were in the temple as the shootings took place. Prominent members of the local Sikh community were among those thought to have been injured or killed by the gunman.
Jatin Der Mangat, 38, of Racine, said his uncle, the temple's president Satwant Singh Kaleka, was one of those wounded, but he didn't know how serious his injuries were. "It was like the heart just sat down," he said. "This shouldn't happen anywhere."
Sukhwindar Nagr, also of Racine, said he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answered and told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests. Children hid in closets in the temple amid fears that the suspect was still on the loose, the priest told Nagr.
CNN reported that two handguns were recovered by forensic experts at the scene. But initial fears that the gunman may have had an accomplice appear to be unfounded. There are often reports of multiple gunmen at incidents of mass shootings, because of the confusion, large number of witnesses and different perspectives. Police said sweeps of the temple and the surrounding area suggested that the shooting was the act of a lone killer.
Alongside the six people the suspect shot, three people were injured and taken to a nearby hospital. They were all in critical condition. The officer who was shot by the gunman is among those being treated. "We expect him to recover", Edwards said.
Police said the unnamed officer was "ambushed" by the gunman as he and a colleague responded to a 911 call alerting authorities to the scene of the shootings. Emergency teams later found the bodies of four victims inside the temple. Three more corpses lay outside the building, including that of the suspect.
For hours after the initial incident, a cordon was placed around the temple amid fears that a second armed man remained at large. Ambulances and police marksman surrounded the temple. The cordon was raised when police were sure that no other peope were involved.
Bradley Wentlandt, police chief of the nearby town of Greenfield, confirmed later that there was only one suspect. "There is no evidence of additional shooters at the temple," he said.
Despite fears that the attack may have had a racist motive, some in the Sikh community cautioned against jumping to conclusions. Sapreet Kaur, executive director of the Sikh Coalition, the largest Sikh American civil rights organisation in the US, said: "There have been multiple hate crime shootings within the Sikh community in recent years and the natural impulse of our community is to unfortunately assume the same in this case.
"Let's let law enforcement investigate the case and as new facts emerge the dialogue can change," he urged.
Kaur added: "Americans died today in a senseless act of violence and Americans of all faiths should stand in unified support with their Sikh brothers and sisters."
The incident in Wisconsin comes just 16 days after 12 people were killed and nearly 60 injured in a mass shooting at a movie theatre in Aurora, Colorado, during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises.
President Barack Obama was informed of the latest atrocity shortly before 1pm ET by homeland security adviser John Brennan. In a statement, the president said he was "deeply saddened". He added: "At this difficult time, the people of Oak Creek must know that the American people have them in our thoughts and prayers, and our hearts go out to the families and friends of those who were killed and wounded."
Obama's Republican challenger for the White House, Mitt Romney, expressed his condolences to those caught up in America's latest mass shooting.0 -
DS1119 wrote:comebackgirl wrote:Cool thanks for doing the legwork
I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.
Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:DS1119 wrote:
With a sizable opposition, obviously.
I saw a brochure for 2 craft fairs this weekend too. Are we obsessed with yarn and glue or is it the gun shows that only attract media attention?0
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