Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

DS1119

mickeyrat wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

I just find it so pathetic that people say "well we should ban cars then since people die in accidents all the time". Cars are not made to kill anything. We also have strict laws with regards to personal transportation. And when someone breaks those laws, they get punished for it. They need to pass a series of tests in order to get one, then (at least where I live), they are on probation for a long period of time, with a sign in the window displayed at all times saying "novice driver", can't drive with any passengers after a certain time of day, and no tolerance on one violation of ANY amount of alcohol on their breath.

no one can claim that any type of restrictions even remotely near that are in place for gun owners.

You are kidding right?

come on down to the westland mall where seemingly every month is a gun show, that somehow managed to be immune from quite a few of these laws regarding selling or resale of fire arms.

Come on down to the DMV when you turn 16...pass a 20 question "test" and you to can drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at blazing speeds down the highway!

redrock

DS1119 wrote:

but I always point out how many were done by LEGALLY obtained weapons?

It was stated in another post that had the article relating to the image (a few pages back) - THREE QUARTERS of these shootings were with legally obtained firearms.

DS1119 wrote:

Also, why doesn't anyone ever bring up mass shootings in other countries when it comes to gun control...they only worry about the US?:

Shootings in other countries were mentioned (full list given - maybe in this thread, maybe in the other). As were the actions taken after these. It is without suprise that the US is way, way ahead of the next country with mass shootings (Germany if I remember correctly). Even if you take it as percentages and not actual numbers.

mickeyrat

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

norm wrote:

At least seven people were killed (including a shooter) at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on Sunday. That’s 57 mass murders in 30 years.

And again the world focuses on these shootings...which are tragedies and my heart goes out to all involved, it really does...but I always point out how many were done by LEGALLY obtained weapons? Also, why doesn't anyone ever bring up mass shootings in other countries when it comes to gun control...they only worry about the US? I seem to remember that this has happened in many many many other countries worldwide, but yet the US is always the target. Coincidence?

I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.

the majority of which the shooter had semiauto handguns followed by assualt type weapons. The link in the post has the charts related to the numbers.

DS1119

comebackgirl wrote:

I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.

Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.

pandora

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Of course the victimizer is the responsible party but a victim is made each day, have a plan,
be prepared.

Locking the door? Is that a joke?

You can be as prepared as possible, and that is not a guarantee you will not be victimized. The people that dropped their kids at daycare the day of the Oklahoma City bombing couldn't have kept their kids safe no matter how *prepared* they were. A great deal of violence is unpredictable. Some of the most prepared people have not been immune to this (cops, military, secret service, security personnel). Some people live with an extraordinary amount of fear. Believing they have a sense of control over unpredictable events gives them a sense of safety. I understand if this is what some people need to believe to make it through the day.

That last question appears antagonistic, so I will leave that part alone.

Please tell me something I don't know

We can prepare ourselves for personal attacks

Miss Ruby did and she is alive to tell about it ...
would you have it another way for her?
and countless others?
Because you don't want to prepare yourself?

That is your choice others are making a choice to be prepared and not be a victim.

I thought you must have been joking...
Miss Ruby's door was locked....

dimitrispearljam

pandora wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

pandora wrote:

fight fire with fire

Pandora ,i remember my training at Airforce very well..
at safety manuals,we use water to fight the fire..

so how do you fight an attacker D ?...
one that is attacking your girl when you are not there

no police ... he's going to rape torture and murder her...
should she have a gun to save her own life?

or will you be going to a funeral?

i dont know..how i ll react,or how a girl will react..
having a gun will not change anything..probably ill shoot myself or my girlfriend cos of the panic of the attack,or ill forget i have a gun..or ill piss him more ill put the gun out and he will kill us,when he has in mind only to steal our money..
who knows..
and the normal is to go the funeral ill guess..ill not collect dna from crime scene,
its police job....
really,a simple civilian cant have answers to this things..
the suprise of attacking u whe n u dont expect it,is the same having a gun or not.
thats why policeman trained for this situation.

mickeyrat

DS1119 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.

Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.

your posts about cars seems to suggest your are in favor of banning them. Which, frankly, I find find strange coming from a car salesman.

DS1119

redrock wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

but I always point out how many were done by LEGALLY obtained weapons?

It was stated in another post that had the article relating to the image (a few pages back) - THREE QUARTERS of these shootings were with legally obtained firearms.

DS1119 wrote:

Also, why doesn't anyone ever bring up mass shootings in other countries when it comes to gun control...they only worry about the US?:

Shootings in other countries were mentioned (full list given - maybe in this thread, maybe in the other). As were the actions taken after these. It is without suprise that the US is way, way ahead of the next country with mass shootings (Germany if I remember correctly). Even if you take it as percentages and not actual numbers.

How many people in the US were accidentally electrocuted by legally obtained toasters over the last thirty years? Ban the toasters? I'm giving up on the cars...the toasters are the real problem!

mickeyrat

DS1119 wrote:

redrock wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

but I always point out how many were done by LEGALLY obtained weapons?

It was stated in another post that had the article relating to the image (a few pages back) - THREE QUARTERS of these shootings were with legally obtained firearms.

DS1119 wrote:

Also, why doesn't anyone ever bring up mass shootings in other countries when it comes to gun control...they only worry about the US?:

Shootings in other countries were mentioned (full list given - maybe in this thread, maybe in the other). As were the actions taken after these. It is without suprise that the US is way, way ahead of the next country with mass shootings (Germany if I remember correctly). Even if you take it as percentages and not actual numbers.

How many people in the US were accidentally electrocuted by legally obtained toasters over the last thirty years? Ban the toasters? I'm giving up on the cars...the toasters are the real problem!

how many toasters were used to harm another? accidental or otherwise.

peacefrompaul

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i dont know..how i ll react,or how a girl will react..
having a gun will not change anything..probably ill shoot myself or my girlfriend cos of the panic of the attack,or ill forget i have a gun..or ill piss him more ill put the gun out and he will kill us,when he has in mind only to steal our money..
who knows..
and the normal is to go the funeral ill guess..ill not collect dna from crime scene,
its police job....
really,a simple civilian cant have answers to this things..
the suprise of attacking u whe n u dont expect it,is the same having a gun or not.
thats why policeman trained for this situation.

So what's the solution, D? More police? Cameras everywhere?

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

come on down to the westland mall where seemingly every month is a gun show, that somehow managed to be immune from quite a few of these laws regarding selling or resale of fire arms.

Come on down to the DMV when you turn 16...pass a 20 question "test" and you to can drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at blazing speeds down the highway!

It's a lot harder than that in NJ. Five steps to getting your license here, including getting 6 hours of driver's education, which will enable you to get a driver's permit. Then you have to drive with a licensed driver for a period of time, take a 100 point written test and a road test, and then there are restrictions of when you can drive and with whom. A lot of restrictions probably because driving can be dangerous, even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.

DS1119

mickeyrat wrote:

your posts about cars seems to suggest your are in favor of banning them. Which, frankly, I find find strange coming from a car salesman.

Mickey...it's just straight logic. People concentrate on these small issues...tragic, beleive me I don't want to see people hurt or killed...but they really believe banning weapons sold in this country LEGALLY AND REGULATED is the answer? Really? Add up all of the victims over the last 30 years from LEGALLY obtained weapons and I bet there were more people who died from stab fucking wounds this week alone? Lets ban the knives sold right? :fp:

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.

Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.

I don't know. Please post them if you have them. I'd be interested in reading them.

peacefrompaul

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

come on down to the westland mall where seemingly every month is a gun show, that somehow managed to be immune from quite a few of these laws regarding selling or resale of fire arms.

Come on down to the DMV when you turn 16...pass a 20 question "test" and you to can drive a 4,000 pound vehicle at blazing speeds down the highway!

It's a lot harder than that in NJ. Five steps to getting your license here, including getting 6 hours of driver's education, which will enable you to get a driver's permit. Then you have to drive with a licensed driver for a period of time, take a 100 point written test and a road test, and then there are restrictions of when you can drive and with whom. A lot of restrictions probably because driving can be dangerous, even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.

Essentially the same here too... except more than 6 hours to get your permit. And minus the 100 point test... more like 30... Plus the drivers ed class which was three hours a day, 5 days a week, for two weeks.

DS1119

comebackgirl wrote:

even though that's not the intended purpose of driving.

Ask Eddie Vedder about this. I seem to remember reading about and seeing a clip in a movie about a certain whacko who wanted to drive their truck through his front door. The driver didn't have a gun.

DS1119

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I think a post following this initial one pointed out that 3/4 of the guns in these shootings were obtained legally. There are shootings in other countries. There was a horrific one in Australia in 1996, that I believe resulted in 35 dead. After this there were stricter controls put in place around assault weapons. I don't believe there has been a shooting of this magnitude since.

Where's all of the articles on stats on legally owned weapons that didn't cause any injuries over the past thirty years? Plus I GUARANTEE more people died from cars over the past thirty years than in these unfortunate events.

I don't know. Please post them if you have them. I'd be interested in reading them.

You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?

mickeyrat

some may argue that the current laws and regulation dont go far enough. It states quite specifically in the 2nd amendment well REGULATED MILITIA( which means to me a miltary type org controlled by the gov state or local).

I propose joe citizen can have all the muzzle loaded weapons they want. Lates go back to the weaponry that was around when the bill of rights was ratified.

comebackgirl

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

pandora wrote:

Of course the victimizer is the responsible party but a victim is made each day, have a plan,
be prepared.

Locking the door? Is that a joke?

You can be as prepared as possible, and that is not a guarantee you will not be victimized. The people that dropped their kids at daycare the day of the Oklahoma City bombing couldn't have kept their kids safe no matter how *prepared* they were. A great deal of violence is unpredictable. Some of the most prepared people have not been immune to this (cops, military, secret service, security personnel). Some people live with an extraordinary amount of fear. Believing they have a sense of control over unpredictable events gives them a sense of safety. I understand if this is what some people need to believe to make it through the day.

That last question appears antagonistic, so I will leave that part alone.

Please tell me something I don't know

We can prepare ourselves for personal attacks

Miss Ruby did and she is alive to tell about it ...
would you have it another way for her?
and countless others?
Because you don't want to prepare yourself?

That is your choice others are making a choice to be prepared and not be a victim.

I thought you must have been joking...
Miss Ruby's door was locked....

Oh good. I'm glad you are already aware of this. We can probably put this discussion to rest then since we are in agreement on that topic.

I didn't reference Miss Ruby's situation in this post. I am replying to your generalized comments about victimization that seemed to need some clarifying.

Are you assuming I don't prepare myself Pandora? Considering the common joke about me is that I am over prepared for just about everything, that is funny. But you don't know me, so of course you wouldn't know that and I wouldn't expect you to. The one thing that I have realized is that no matter how crazily prepared for things I am, bad things can still happen. For example, I am ridiculous about maintenance on my car, yet that didn't stop a rock from flying up and knocking a hole in my radiator. I can be ridiculously prepared for an attack of some sort, but that won't necessarily stop it from happening, nor would it make me responsible for my own victimization.

Oh ok. Well I think you missed the point of my comment about locking the door. I wasn't referring to Miss Ruby or stating that locking ones door would be fail safe. I was stating that we all do things that we believe will keep us safer.

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

[

You honestly think more people were killed in this country from legally obtained weapons than from cars over the past 30 years that I need to find stats? Really? :?

I'd really like to see them if you have them.

redrock

comebackgirl wrote:

Oh ok. Well I think you missed the point of my comment about locking the door. I wasn't referring to Miss Ruby or stating that locking ones door would be fail safe. .

Though do we know for a fact that her doors were locked? A 89 year old can be forgetful... Hypothetical question not needing response.