Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

DS1119

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.

Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?

Yes, please. This wasn't really what I was looking for. I really wanted to see a comparison that would back the argument you were making in the other thread, as well as some analysis from peer reviewed journals. Whole numbers don't really lend themselves to an accurate comparison. Thanks, DS

Those numbers are now posted in this thread.

comebackgirl

peacefrompaul wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Cool thanks for doing the legwork I really don't know the numbers and I'd be interested in seeing them. I'm a numbers geek, so I like to see what the stats are in peer reviewed journals.

Well the number for a 30 year period for automobiles from 1980 to 2010 is 1,697,722 souls lost. Should I even continue?

Good enough?

http://www.datamasher.org/mash-ups/fire ... #table-tab

Thanks, that's more detailed, but still not quite what I was looking for.

DS1119

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

Those numbers are now posted in this thread.

Thanks, I saw that, but it wasn't really what I was looking for. I really am interested to see more of an analysis that compares the actual ownership and usage of cars, vs. the actual ownership and usage of firearms in comparison to the number of deaths, not just the total of deaths caused by each. I'm not sure if such research exists, but if so I'd be interested in seeing it. I also wanted to see if there's any research about the number of guns that are obtained legally that are then used illegally (ie. stolen, obtained from a parent, etc) and preferably from a peer reviewed source and not either the pro or anti gun control side. I've tried to search a little myself, but was hoping someone might have it readily available.

kenny olav

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

I wouldn't be so gleeful about such a poor comparison. There's no inheirant risk of being hurt or killed by a gunshot if you choose to be in a cafe, or a movie theater, or a temple or anywhere else. There is an inheirant risk if you choose to go swimming. People also choose to climb mountains or go skiing depsite the inheirant risks. They don't need to do these things, but they also don't endanger other peoples' lives by doing so. Guns endanger everyone.

Zoso

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

really?.. I understand you are lol about this but guns are man made machines that kill.. end of story.

peacefrompaul

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Those numbers are now posted in this thread.

Thanks, I saw that, but it wasn't really what I was looking for. I really am interested to see more of an analysis that compares the actual ownership and usage of cars, vs. the actual ownership and usage of firearms in comparison to the number of deaths, not just the total of deaths caused by each. I'm not sure if such research exists, but if so I'd be interested in seeing it. I also wanted to see if there's any research about the number of guns that are obtained legally that are then used illegally (ie. stolen, obtained from a parent, etc) and preferably from a peer reviewed source and not either the pro or anti gun control side. I've tried to search a little myself, but was hoping someone might have it readily available.

Good luck...

comebackgirl

peacefrompaul wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Those numbers are now posted in this thread.

Thanks, I saw that, but it wasn't really what I was looking for. I really am interested to see more of an analysis that compares the actual ownership and usage of cars, vs. the actual ownership and usage of firearms in comparison to the number of deaths, not just the total of deaths caused by each. I'm not sure if such research exists, but if so I'd be interested in seeing it. I also wanted to see if there's any research about the number of guns that are obtained legally that are then used illegally (ie. stolen, obtained from a parent, etc) and preferably from a peer reviewed source and not either the pro or anti gun control side. I've tried to search a little myself, but was hoping someone might have it readily available.

Good luck...

Thanks, haven't found it yet

PJ_Soul

DS1119 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I saw a brochure for 2 craft fairs this weekend too. Are we obsessed with yarn and glue or is it the gun shows that only attract media attention?

If you want to say that Americans are in love crafts, you would probably have a good argument. But there are piles of craft fairs in other places too, and not a ton of gun shows or guns in every mega store. America is the only place where there are oodles of gun shows, people rallying for guns, a rifle association that has political power... is there a crafts association that has clout in Washington that I don't know about? Rallies in support of crafts? Craft-making ranges in Vegas? I don't think so. Come on. You know that Americans love their guns. They love lots of other things too, obviously, but most of the other things don't have an intimate connection to violent death.

DS1119

Zoso wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

really?.. I understand you are lol about this but guns are man made machines that kill.. end of story.

Machetes? Who uses machetes these days? But they are sold worldwide. Didn't someone out of the US just kill 9 people with a machete?

DS1119

kenny olav wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

I wouldn't be so gleeful about such a poor comparison. There's no inheirant risk of being hurt or killed by a gunshot if you choose to be in a cafe, or a movie theater, or a temple or anywhere else. There is an inheirant risk if you choose to go swimming. People also choose to climb mountains or go skiing depsite the inheirant risks. They don't need to do these things, but they also don't endanger other peoples' lives by doing so. Guns endanger everyone.

Guns don't endanger anyone. It;s the person behind the gun that does. If I'm cookoo enough I don't need a gun to take people out in a public setting. Hell...all it takes is a gallon jug of gas and a match in a movie theater and I can inflict the same damage. Guns are a sport and a right in the US. Hell...last time I checked skeet shooting is even a sport in the Olympics?

PJ_Soul

DS1119 wrote:

Zoso wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

really?.. I understand you are lol about this but guns are man made machines that kill.. end of story.

Machetes? Who uses machetes these days? But they are sold worldwide. Didn't someone out of the US just kill 9 people with a machete?

:?:
Whatever. I'm sure you know that other things that are dangerous don't make guns any less dangerous, and that dealing with one dangerous thing isn't minimized because something else dangerous isn't dealt with. Just like you know that just because Americans like lots of different things doesn't mean they don't have a particular affinity for guns. Devil's advocate is what you are.

PJ_Soul

DS1119 wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

I wouldn't be so gleeful about such a poor comparison. There's no inheirant risk of being hurt or killed by a gunshot if you choose to be in a cafe, or a movie theater, or a temple or anywhere else. There is an inheirant risk if you choose to go swimming. People also choose to climb mountains or go skiing depsite the inheirant risks. They don't need to do these things, but they also don't endanger other peoples' lives by doing so. Guns endanger everyone.

Guns don't endanger anyone. It;s the person behind the gun that does. If I'm cookoo enough I don't need a gun to take people out in a public setting. Hell...all it takes is a gallon jug of gas and a match in a movie theater and I can inflict the same damage. Guns are a sport and a right in the US. Hell...last time I checked skeet shooting is even a sport in the Olympics?

Again, very few here are arguing for a complete ban on guns so that no one can skeet shoot or keep a gun on a farm in case coyotes get into the chicken coup. Most of us are simply making a point for stronger regulations and limitations.

DS1119

PJ_Soul wrote:

If you want to say that Americans are in love crafts, you would probably have a good argument. But there are piles of craft fairs in other places too, and not a ton of gun shows or guns in every mega store. America is the only place where there are oodles of gun shows, people rallying for guns, a rifle association that has political power... is there a crafts association that has clout in Washington that I don't know about? Rallies in support of crafts? Craft-making ranges in Vegas? I don't think so. Come on. You know that Americans love their guns. They love lots of other things too, obviously, but most of the other things don't have an intimate connection to violent death.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gun or not...a person intent on killing someone will kill them. ALso, it's overwhelmingly the illegal and smuggled weapons that do it. Not the guy who wants to feel protected....hunts....or likes to shoot targets on the weekend.

To the people who think guns need to be banned for the protection of themselves I suggest you push for the ban of stuff that actually has a higher risk of doing that...like getting in your car everyday and going to work or getting on a plane.

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

Zoso wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

I just saw that on average 12 people...TWELVE PEOPLE die in this country everyday by drowning. I found my next fight! Ban swimming!! 5000 people annully can be spared their lives if we just shut down the swimmers! I mean we don't need to swim. We don;t swim to work. We don't swim to get to the store

really?.. I understand you are lol about this but guns are man made machines that kill.. end of story.

Machetes? Who uses machetes these days? But they are sold worldwide. Didn't someone out of the US just kill 9 people with a machete?

I'd be cool with tighter controls on machetes

comebackgirl

DS1119 wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

If you want to say that Americans are in love crafts, you would probably have a good argument. But there are piles of craft fairs in other places too, and not a ton of gun shows or guns in every mega store. America is the only place where there are oodles of gun shows, people rallying for guns, a rifle association that has political power... is there a crafts association that has clout in Washington that I don't know about? Rallies in support of crafts? Craft-making ranges in Vegas? I don't think so. Come on. You know that Americans love their guns. They love lots of other things too, obviously, but most of the other things don't have an intimate connection to violent death.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gun or not...a person intent on killing someone will kill them. ALso, it's overwhelmingly the illegal and smuggled weapons that do it. Not the guy who wants to feel protected....hunts....or likes to shoot targets on the weekend.

To the people who think guns need to be banned for the protection of themselves I suggest you push for the ban of stuff that actually has a higher risk of doing that...like getting in your car everyday and going to work or getting on a plane.

I'm also in support of regulations that make driving and air travel safer. Although I think those regulations do exist.

DS1119

PJ_Soul wrote:

Again, very few here are arguing for a complete ban on guns so that no one can skeet shoot or keep a gun on a farm in case coyotes get into the chicken coup. Most of us are simply making a point for stronger regulations and limitations.

How much stronger do you want it? It's harder to get a gun than it is to get a car? Not trying to be a wiseass but that's the truth. Do you want a pyscho evaluation on everyone? And after that...who's the governing body to decide you can have one and I can't? There are a lot of kooks out there that don't presnt as kooks and vice versa. So now people think that putting some new abrituary level of obtaining a gun will protect them from being hurt or killed. It really is laughable? Does anyone really think that if LEGALLY OBTAINED WEAPONS sudeenly were even more regualted or cut off in the US the murder rate would go down? Absolutley a mad thought process.

gimmesometruth27

DS1119 wrote:

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gun or not...a person intent on killing someone will kill them. ALso, it's overwhelmingly the illegal and smuggled weapons that do it. Not the guy who wants to feel protected....hunts....or likes to shoot targets on the weekend.

To the people who think guns need to be banned for the protection of themselves I suggest you push for the ban of stuff that actually has a higher risk of doing that...like getting in your car everyday and going to work or getting on a plane.

but the gun helps.... you can't just go up to someone and yell BANG and have them die.

guns are lethal weapons that were invented only to kill things.

seriously, this whole "guns don't kill people" line of thinking is so infantile. the pulling of the trigger releasing the potential energy that is a bullet that then penetrates skin, bone, soft tissue, causing great bodily harm is what kills people. the gun discharging a bullet is what kills people. i can't make it any more plain than that.

if i dropped a gun on the ground and it discharges and the bullet hits my hypothetical 3 year old kid and kills them, the gun killed her. not any person...

DS1119

comebackgirl wrote:

I'd be cool with tighter controls on machetes

What about ice picks. I'm pretty sure someone could take out 4 or 5 people in a mall setting before security gets there if so inclined.

DS1119

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

if i dropped a gun on the ground and it discharges and the bullet hits my hypothetical 3 year old kid and kills them, the gun killed her. not any person...

Guess what. Don't keep your kid around a gun. You wouldn't put your hypothetical three year old on the shoulder of a highway would you?