What book are you reading?

Enkidu · May 2012

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

Mamasan23 · May 2012

vant0037 wrote:

Mamasan23 wrote:

rrivers wrote:

The Wind Through the Keyhole- Stephen King

How is it so far? I was surprised at how short it was - so used to the DT books being so much longer!

Don't tell me you're a Stephen King fan too? It's like we're reading-soulmates!

Fan would be quite the understatement my friend!

Who Princess · May 2012

Enkidu wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

I agree. Fascinating stuff. So many misperceptions by the public about that case. I thought I knew a lot about it because so much was published at the time but reading that book made me realize how much I didn't know.

rrivers · May 2012

Mamasan23 wrote:

rrivers wrote:

The Wind Through the Keyhole- Stephen King

How is it so far? I was surprised at how short it was - so used to the DT books being so much longer!

I'm enjoying it. I'm about a 100 pages in. I wasn't sure if I would like it because, as you may know, it is set in between book 4 and 5 so obviously I knew when the group was in danger everyone would be ok because they survived to book 5!

But it's actually a story within a story going back to Roland being younger similiar to book 4. And then it becomes a story within a story within a story with young Roland telling a story, all of which are interesting so far!

rrivers · May 2012

Enkidu wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

Yeah I enjoyed it a lot too. I think I read it in college. Makes you feel like you need a shower after reading, but really good nonetheless.

I remember I told my wife I read it long after I had finished it when we were talking one day. She said, "I've never known anyone who read that book." She is a bit creeped out by the things I read/movies I watch. I think it's good to keep her on edge.

riotgrl · May 2012

Ronald Reagan: An American Life. not too bad but I'm only up to his acting career.

Byrnzie · May 2012

Enkidu wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

Definitely gives you an insight into what lengths a slippery, ambitious, up-and-coming lawyer will do to win a case. If my memory serves, most of the book consists of Bugliosi confesing that he did everything in his power to concoct a sensationalist media fantasy in order to frame Manson, despite the fact that Manson wasn't guilty of anything.
It was pretty much just a show trial.

catefrances · May 2012

Byrnzie wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

Definitely gives you an insight into what lengths a slippery, ambitious, up-and-coming lawyer will do to win a case. If my memory serves, most of the book consists of Bugliosi confesing that he did everything in his power to concoct a sensationalist media fantasy in order to frame Manson, despite the fact that Manson wasn't guilty of anything.
It was pretty much just a show trial.

oh steve how some of us would love it if manson was innocent of all charges, but thats just not true. i would say manson is at least guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.

PilateOfTheStorm · May 2012

Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov

dankind · May 2012

Zone One by Colson Whitehead.

Mamasan23 · May 2012

rrivers wrote:

I'm enjoying it. I'm about a 100 pages in. I wasn't sure if I would like it because, as you may know, it is set in between book 4 and 5 so obviously I knew when the group was in danger everyone would be ok because they survived to book 5!

But it's actually a story within a story going back to Roland being younger similiar to book 4. And then it becomes a story within a story within a story with young Roland telling a story, all of which are interesting so far!

Yeah I thought knowing that they all make it through might ruin it a bit...but I'm happy to know it's pretty good. I'm excited to read new stuff about the gang, especially Oy

Who Princess · May 2012

Byrnzie wrote:

Enkidu wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Helter Skelter: The Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi.

Very interesting.

A fabulous book. I read it before I moved to LA... and reread it once I'd lived here for a while. Totally creepy. One of the best true crime books out there though. I hope you like it.

Definitely gives you an insight into what lengths a slippery, ambitious, up-and-coming lawyer will do to win a case. If my memory serves, most of the book consists of Bugliosi confesing that he did everything in his power to concoct a sensationalist media fantasy in order to frame Manson, despite the fact that Manson wasn't guilty of anything.
It was pretty much just a show trial.

It was an extremely lengthy trial but that seems to have something to do with the California courts system. Many of their trials go on for months and not always because the crime is sensational. I wouldn't call it a show trial.

Manson had a knack for manipulating other people to commit crimes and more important, I think, an ability to attract the kind of people he could manipulate. But I'd hardly say he's not guilty of anything.

What made an impression on me, besides the grisly subject matter, was the complete ineptitude of the Los Angeles Police Dept.

rrivers · May 2012

Mamasan23 wrote:

rrivers wrote:

I'm enjoying it. I'm about a 100 pages in. I wasn't sure if I would like it because, as you may know, it is set in between book 4 and 5 so obviously I knew when the group was in danger everyone would be ok because they survived to book 5!

But it's actually a story within a story going back to Roland being younger similiar to book 4. And then it becomes a story within a story within a story with young Roland telling a story, all of which are interesting so far!

Yeah I thought knowing that they all make it through might ruin it a bit...but I'm happy to know it's pretty good. I'm excited to read new stuff about the gang, especially Oy

Let me know when you read it, I'd love to chat about it. PM me. I really enjoyed the part I read last night and can't wait to get back to it!

vant0037 · May 2012

Who Princess wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Definitely gives you an insight into what lengths a slippery, ambitious, up-and-coming lawyer will do to win a case. If my memory serves, most of the book consists of Bugliosi confesing that he did everything in his power to concoct a sensationalist media fantasy in order to frame Manson, despite the fact that Manson wasn't guilty of anything.
It was pretty much just a show trial.

What??? I can tell you right now that I'm about halfway through the book, and there is little evidence that's been shown or discussed that doesn't point toward Manson's direct guilt. The book does discuss the media misinterpretations of evidence and subsequent sensationalizing of the case (i.e. what happened to Sharon Tate) or the leaks from the LAPD (forcing an early indictment before Bugliosi had all the evidence he wanted), but there's not much about Bugliosi making things up to frame an innocent Manson. You might have been reading a different book?

As far as Manson not guilty of anything? Off the top of my head, I could name several things he was guilty of. Murder (tying someone up with the intention that others kill the tied up person = murder), conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, robbery...and I'm about 300 pages in. I've always thought Bugliosi was a bit of an egomaniac, but I'm shocked that there is still any doubt that Manson was guilty. As a prosecutor myself and former public defender, I'm actually extremely impressed with how he's handled the case so far in the book.

I agree that I was surprised at the LAPD's ineptitude.

zarocat · May 2012

Ayn Rand: The Virtue of Selfishness: A New Concept of Egoism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virtue_of_Selfishness

*Just started

RKCNDY · May 2012

ok book nerds...found this and thought it was cool...

http://unscathedcorpse.blogspot.com/201 ... books.html

cute little video. enjoy.

Byrnzie · May 2012

vant0037 wrote:

As far as Manson not guilty of anything? Off the top of my head, I could name several things he was guilty of. Murder (tying someone up with the intention that others kill the tied up person = murder), conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, robbery...and I'm about 300 pages in. I've always thought Bugliosi was a bit of an egomaniac, but I'm shocked that there is still any doubt that Manson was guilty. As a prosecutor myself and former public defender, I'm actually extremely impressed with how he's handled the case so far in the book.

I agree that I was surprised at the LAPD's ineptitude.

Murder? It was a long time ago that I read about it, but did he even enter any of the houses where the murders took place? From what I remember he was in one of the cars that drove up to one of the houses, but he didn't even get out of the car.

And I do know that a couple of times in the book Bugliosi admits that Manson wasn't guilty of anything, but that he would get a conviction regardless.

81 · May 2012

Speedy McCready
Debbie Roxburgh

Light-hearted children's book looking at how families might have to create their own electricity when the National Grid starts to fail.
A light-hearted children's book which considers a world where families create their own electricity by using government- issued exercise bikes and treadmills. An hour on the bike might buy you time to roast your joint of beef and watch the news!

Dillon is the main character, who with the help of his pet hamster, Speedy McCready, comes up with his very own hamster-run national grid. He becomes a bit of a national hero and even gets to meet the Queen and the Prime Minister.

:P

vant0037 · May 2012

Byrnzie wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

As far as Manson not guilty of anything? Off the top of my head, I could name several things he was guilty of. Murder (tying someone up with the intention that others kill the tied up person = murder), conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, robbery...and I'm about 300 pages in. I've always thought Bugliosi was a bit of an egomaniac, but I'm shocked that there is still any doubt that Manson was guilty. As a prosecutor myself and former public defender, I'm actually extremely impressed with how he's handled the case so far in the book.

I agree that I was surprised at the LAPD's ineptitude.

Murder? It was a long time ago that I read about it, but did he even enter any of the houses where the murders took place? From what I remember he was in one of the cars that drove up to one of the houses, but he didn't even get out of the car.

And I do know that a couple of times in the book Bugliosi admits that Manson wasn't guilty of anything, but that he would get a conviction regardless.

Here's what I've got so far:

Murder
-Hinman: he lopped off Gary Hinman's ear with a sword that he received from a biker gang he was trying to recruit, after ordering Hinman tied up, went outside, and told the others to "finish him off"; Hinman was subsequently killed thereafter. (that's also conspiracy to commit murder too)
-Tate/Labianca murders: multiple members of the family all stated to police and on direct examination that the murders were done at the direction of Charles Manson; Manson was present at the Labianca murders and again tied them up with instructions to Tex Watson and other Family members to finish them off
-Donald Shea ("Shorty"): Bruce Davis stated that Manson was present during the murder and dismemberment of Shorty Shea and that Manson handed him the machete used during the killing

Conspiracy to Commit Murder
-see above; dozens of statements and witnesses stated that all murders were done as part of broader plan, all at Manson's direction; doesn't take much for a conspiracy to develop

On top of that, there's tons of testimony and statements regarding burglaries, robberies, sex crimes, auto theft, and harassment that Manson either did directly, or that others did at his direction.

Bugliosi has spent the first 350 pages of a 600+ page book mounting evidence about why Manson was guilty of these things; I am extremely skeptical that he will drop a line in the last 300 that he doesn't actually think Manson was guilty. Like I said, you must be thinking of a different book.

And why is Manson's guilt so hard to believe? Aside from the mountain of evidence tying him to each crime (including Manson's own words to dozens of different people about "offing pigs"), the guy had a rap sheet of serious felonies, property crimes and violent crimes a mile long. When the physical evidence available is corroborated by the statements of multiple witnesses and defendants, it becomes pretty clear that what is alleged is actually what happened. Conversely, in the light of that evidence and those statements matching up, it becomes a stretch to think something else occurred (i.e. Manson wasn't involved in any of this). In other words, doubt becomes unreasonable. Once you hit that point, the State's burden has been met and you must find the guy guilty. That's what the jury did here.

Who Princess · May 2012

Byrnzie wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

As far as Manson not guilty of anything? Off the top of my head, I could name several things he was guilty of. Murder (tying someone up with the intention that others kill the tied up person = murder), conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, robbery...and I'm about 300 pages in. I've always thought Bugliosi was a bit of an egomaniac, but I'm shocked that there is still any doubt that Manson was guilty. As a prosecutor myself and former public defender, I'm actually extremely impressed with how he's handled the case so far in the book.

I agree that I was surprised at the LAPD's ineptitude.

Murder? It was a long time ago that I read about it, but did he even enter any of the houses where the murders took place? From what I remember he was in one of the cars that drove up to one of the houses, but he didn't even get out of the car.

And I do know that a couple of times in the book Bugliosi admits that Manson wasn't guilty of anything, but that he would get a conviction regardless.

Manson thought the killings at the Tate house had been done sloppily so he went with the group to the next house that had been chosen, to make sure they didn't screw it up. While his followers waited in the car, he went in alone and tied up the LaBianca's. Then he sent the others in to kill them. If that's not at least being an accessory to murder I don't know what it is.

I read the book about 5 years ago and I agree with vant0037 that Bugliosi comes off as egotistical but I expect that from someone who is a prominent litigator. I don't recall ANYWHERE in the book that Bugliosi says Manson wasn't guilty. Yeah, he pushed hard for a conviction but that's what a prosecutor is supposed to do. When prosecutors do anything to get a conviction, it usually involves withholding evidence or using unreliable witnesses.

What book are you reading?

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