Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:
Comments
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Again no proof nor signs of any problem with his teaching skills, not complaints from parents etc.EmBleve wrote:It wasn't private; his inflammatory comments reached hundreds of people on a SOCIAL website. And one would think that if he is such a fantastic teacher and so upstanding and well-regarded, he would be aware of his ethical obligations and his school policy. If you were gay, or had same-sex parents (whose union makes him 'want to throw up), or anything similarly related, would you want to be in his classroom??
These words said outside his workplace by Jerry not Mr Buell.
it is possible to be a good teacher and still have opinions many don't agree with
don't forget there are people that do agree with him also
takes all kinds
as I said there always will be haters
doesn't matter how they try to sugar coat or hide behind examples or by using civil words
its all the same
hate is hate
but we can show kindness and forgiveness and hopefully this will help tis man do the same0 -
BUT if there was no rule like that there would be no newsJonnyPistachio wrote:
But we talk of: where is the cut-off.. how much free speech should he have?
There are definitely signs and proof that his teaching abilities are affected by what he said. It is news across the country now. He said those terrible things to the whole world. Now, I am sure his co-worker and students have heard the exact quote of what he said. that's the point of social media like facebook -- it is forever in evidence. He has ruined his ability to teach in my opinion.
He never in the past (that we know of) treated a child with injustice. But the minute he made those remarks on facebook and (if) one of his students heard it (i'm assuming they have now), he treated them with injustice.
He WAS honored and loved for 22 years. Thats over now because of his stupidity and poor judgement.
He would be free to make a fool out of himself and if then it carried into his teaching skills
he should be let go for the right reasons... not cause there are rules in place to keep us from voicing our basic freedom but because he was providing a bigoted environment in the classroom....
if he is not, was not or would not he should be allowed to teach.
IMO0 -
pandora wrote:BUT if there was no rule like that there would be no news
He would be free to make a fool out of himself and if then it carried into his teaching skills
he should be let go for the right reasons... not cause there are rules in place to keep us from voicing our basic freedom but because he was providing a bigoted environment in the classroom....
if he is not, was not or would not he should be allowed to teach.
IMO
Yes, but it got to be news because of the bigoted hate behind his remarks - not because of a rule. Does it matter how it got to his students ears?Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
You seem to forget what this man does for a living. And like JohnnyPistachio said, WAS,WAS, WAS. He violated ethical boundaries, and has now alienated a percentage of his would-be student population. You say hate perpetuates hate; he is perpetuating hate and intolerance and lacks objectivity on the subject of homosexuality--and verbalized it very publicly and in a hateful way. Again, he exercised very poor judgement, and there are consequences for that, Pandora. He knew this. I'm sorry but I cannot muster up 'kindness' in the face of intolerance and hatred. And I would bet anything that there are now numerous parents and students who feel the same way; I know I would.pandora wrote:hate is hate
but we can show kindness and forgiveness and hopefully this will help tis man do the same0 -
If you work as a government employee or manage a group of people, you should consider abstaining from Twitter and Facebook.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0
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Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
Nobody has presented "another side" to the argument that can't be shot down in four words.
He knowingly took a job in which he's expected to be a role model on and off the job. He made some very vile, very public comments, he was suspended for it. This did jot take away his "free speech" and if you thnk it did, you don't understand the concept of "free speech." He was not suspended for "having an opinion," he was suspended for making some juvenile, vile comments in public.
Many people have been fired for "words on a computer screen," ask the soldiers who were discharged for posting "I'm gay" anonymously to the internet. You can also ask the girl who posted "OMG I hate my boss" to Facebook and was fired on her own Facebook wall by the boss in question whom shed friended.
There is no "other side" to this. He broke a rule, made himself and the school look bad and is being reprimanded for it. If you think there's "another side" to this, it's probably because you agree with him that my marriage is a "cesspool."
Actually I don't and have said as much. Clearly this is a situation very close to your heart which I understand.
#1) I never said anything about free speech
And because things happen doesn't make it right. It's funny that you justify a current situation with something that happened in the past and that the law has said is ok...currently the law allows states to not legalize gay marriage. So since it's happened in the past that gay individuals have not been allowed to marry, it's ok in any future case? Please.
What he said I don't agree with 100%. I just wonder if where he said it should open him up to the possibility of termination. I also said a suspension seemed justified and wondered if coaching should be in order instead of termination (should they terminate him).
I just think there is a fine line that I'm worried about us going over.hippiemom = goodness0 -
as a side note, IMO social networking sites add a new dimension to this 'fine line' (especially in this case since it is addressed in school policy). In this situation, it would have been best to maybe say this in the old school, around the kitchen table way versus a social forum like facebook. :?cincybearcat wrote:I just think there is a fine line that I'm worried about us going over.0 -
To me yes...is this not the point of the thread?JonnyPistachio wrote:
Yes, but it got to be news because of the bigoted hate behind his remarks - not because of a rule. Does it matter how it got to his students ears?
if he was teaching it in his classroom then he should be fired...
no question no matter how he presented it to his classroom...
vile or otherwise
if he was sitting in a bar with friends and someone over heard ...what do you think?
I think no... private
I feel the same about facebook... if they allow it there then he should be allowed to voice his opinion
and not lose his job...
I get there is a "rule" in place but that rule is wrong imo ... and should be changed
he should be allowed his opinion outside the classroom.
So many are so quick to write him off after being a great teacher for 22 years.
No room to allow forgiveness or kindness makes him learn nothing
and nothing learned for those so quick to judge.
A little secret... I don't like porn... don't watch it .... never did.
Love love sex but not watching others perform sex acts on each other..
loses something in the translation :?
I find it gross whether that be same sex or heterosexual.
I wouldn't like to even visualize anyone having sex ... I think it very private.
This gays or straights.
Would I go on an open forum and say nasty things about porn and that I thought it vile
and judge those who adore it
probably not cause I just don't think about it... its just not for me.
My point... I understand his being grossed out about it
coupled with his deep core belief that marriage should remain between man and woman...
this is where we part...
I believe in love and marriage period for all human beings.
But I just think this world is spinning fast for some, things can feel wrong and out of control.
The political correctness can become abrasive to one's personal beliefs
whether those are popular or right or wrong.
People can get wild and say things... I feel he deserves a chance to correct this and learn from it.
To many dismiss a life here... a valuable one
and like I said hate is the same in any form even sugarcoated and civil or hidden in snide remarks,
it hurts the person it is directed at in the same way....
yet that is somehow acceptable... I think not.
So unless people here can say they absolutely never prejudge,
blow a gasket, do something dumb, are mean and rude to others,
then they should let this guy just return to class and see how he does.
Everyone is on their path and sometimes they get some light from others along the way
and sometimes the one giving the light learns the most from it.Post edited by pandora on0 -
Facebook is not private.0
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pandora wrote:
yes.
Facebook is not private like having a conversation with friends at a bar. It is a public, social forum (addressing 700 people in this case). And it is 'allowed' because it is not a watchdog establishment--nothing like an ethics code of conduct or a specific school policy.pandora wrote:if he was sitting in a bar with friends and someone over heard ...what do you think?
I think no... private
I feel the same about facebook... if they allow it there then he should be allowed to voice his opinion
and not lose his job...:0 -
EmBleve wrote: yes.
Facebook is not private like having a conversation with friends at a bar. It is a public, social forum (addressing 700 people in this case). And it is 'allowed' because it is not a watchdog establishment--nothing like an ethics code of conduct or a specific school policy.
Maybe my wording was bad....What I meant was
I feel it the same, in that, one should be able to voice one's opinion per the rules of the website...
just like they are among friends in a public place ... that's what they are called right?... "friends"
I don't do facebook or twitter
As far as ethics code ... all for that in the classroom
but when it comes to private time it is anti-freedom of speech rules to me
just another way to control and limit what people can say and be
not for that at all but I think you've gathered that.0 -
pandora wrote:I feel it the same, in that, one should be able to voice one's opinion per the rules of the website...
just like they are among friends in a public place ... that's what they are called right?... "friends"
I don't do facebook or twitter
I was under the impression that he posted it on his 'wall' on FB. IF this 'wall' is set to public, it is meant for all 250 million people to see it.
What if he painted the very same remarks on a sign and put it in his front yard?Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
I haven't been following this thread for the reasons
1) him getting fired was bullshit
2) in this day and age what kind of dummy would post stuff like that on FB ?...knowing your boss might winde up reading it and using it too fire you.
but all that aside could you imagine the train being as common as facebook :shock: a whole bunch of us might be job hunting.
Godfather.0 -
Godfather. wrote:I haven't been following this thread for the reasons
1) him getting fired was bullshit
2) in this day and age what kind of dummy would post stuff like that on FB ?...knowing your boss might winde up reading it and using it too fire you.
but all that aside could you imagine the train being as common as facebook :shock: a whole bunch of us might be job hunting.
Godfather.
The difference here is that most people have the good sense to post anonymously when they are making politically sensitive remarks. For an amazing teacher, this guy certainly lacked any real common sense.
Or is Godfather your real name?0 -
There is a code of ethics for many professions that extends into ones' personal life, teaching being one of them. And 'private' time, in my definition, does not include facebook. I would have much less of a problem with this particular situation if social media sites were not directly addressed in the school policy; he knew he was in a position to be a mentor and a role model, and hopefully encourage individuality and self-respect in his students. To post something, worded as it was, on facebook was, again, very poor judgment. And when he was called on it, he was very unapologetic about it. People in other professions have been fired for ethical violations which occurred in 'private' time; it's just the way it is. Apparently some of his 'friends' found it sufficiently offensive and bigoted to report it to the school board, and so did the board (again, because it violated employee policy).pandora wrote:As far as ethics code ... all for that in the classroom
but when it comes to private time it is anti-freedom of speech rules to me
just another way to control and limit what people can say and be0 -
that would be even dumber huh?JonnyPistachio wrote:
I was under the impression that he posted it on his 'wall' on FB. IF this 'wall' is set to public, it is meant for all 250 million people to see it.
What if he painted the very same remarks on a sign and put it in his front yard?
who know though his neighbors might actually support that no telling
but he didn't do that... Jonny
he went to a website where they allow posting like this
It surprises me people are so unwilling to give him a chance to clear his name after 22 years
this surprises more than the fact he did this0 -
always concise ... always insightful... always GodfatherGodfather. wrote:I haven't been following this thread for the reasons
1) him getting fired was bullshit
2) in this day and age what kind of dummy would post stuff like that on FB ?...knowing your boss might winde up reading it and using it too fire you.
but all that aside could you imagine the train being as common as facebook :shock: a whole bunch of us might be job hunting.
Godfather.
0 -
yes I got ...how it went down and whyEmBleve wrote:There is a code of ethics for many professions that extends into ones' personal life, teaching being one of them. And 'private' time, in my definition, does not include facebook. I would have much less of a problem with this particular situation if social media sites were not directly addressed in the school policy; he knew he was in a position to be a mentor and a role model, and hopefully encourage individuality and self-respect in his students. To post something, worded as it was, on facebook was, again, very poor judgment. And when he was called on it, he was very unapologetic about it. People in other professions have been fired for ethical violations which occurred in 'private' time; it's just the way it is. Apparently some of his 'friends' found it sufficiently offensive and bigoted to report it to the school board, and so did the board (again, because it violated employee policy).
just not so cool on the firing... knee jerk reaction
not so keen on the hate for him personally ... seems a bit two faced
hate is hate
plenty wield it daily... just cover it in a pretty bow and call it an opinion
no different than what he did
his didn't have a bow and it came from the bowels deep within
obviously true rant form
but the outcome is the same ... as always... when a person is unkind
someone gets offended
hope he finds some kindness and gets his second chance on year # 230 -
pandora wrote:that would be even dumber huh?
who know though his neighbors might actually support that no telling
but he didn't do that... Jonny
he went to a website where they allow posting like this
It surprises me people are so unwilling to give him a chance to clear his name after 22 years
this surprises more than the fact he did this
Actually the facebook post is dumber in my opinion. There are something like 250 million people on FB. If he put the sign in his yard, he might have only reached 50 people or so. Sure he didnt do that, but I'm making a point, which is that he decided to put these hateful remarks out there where so many people could see it. To me, its the same as putting a sign up in your yard. Maybe you dont realize the scope of facebook.. he might as well get on his roof and yell it into a megaphone.
It matters not if his neighbors support it. Its bigoted hate and despicable.
Surprised that some are unwilling to give him a chance?! I have no time for hateful bigots. He's ruined for all I care. I think he should be nowhere near impressionable children.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0
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