Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:
bgivens33
Posts: 290
Quite torn on this one... I don't necessarily believe a school district is bound by the first amendment, so in that regard I don't mind their actions. On the other hand, this guy seemed to be a great teacher and the idea that a school district can suspend you for remarks on your facebook page is a bit disturbing. I'm not sure that is a good way to attract young, talented, educators to your school district. I don't want to turn this into a gay marriage thread, because honestly, this issue doesn't have much to do with gay marriage.
Two links-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/19/fl ... -facebook/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 31941.html
Two links-
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/19/fl ... -facebook/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 31941.html
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
We wouldn't tolerate an educator coming out with that type of hatred, so I don't think we should tolerate them coming out with hatred against someones sexual identity.
Gay rights are our last civil rights. It will happen, just hasn't happened yet.
If you are against it, then consider yourself part of the old guard. The same one that was against woman's right to vote, and all other type of inequality.
IMO.
Well it was said in a public manner. That is the difference.
If he said all black people should be slaves. And that went out to 700 people, students, fellow teachers etc.
Could the school ignore that.
I don't think so.
Now if he held his views to himself, then there wouldn't be an issue. It would have remained private.
He broke that by utilizing a widely distributed type of social media.
His views were no longer private, and therefore the school had the right to take action.
No, but I also wouldn't support a school doing the same thing for a teacher denouncing slavery.
One point of view is hate full and discriminatory and the other is about equal rights and respect for your fellow humans.
If a school suspended someone for supporting civil rights I don't think the school would be in the right.
So you support the school to suspend someone, only if you disagree with what the person said?
I guess that is what I'm trying to avoid, conditional support and opposition.
I'm not sure. I think at the end of the day, I would decide to back the school boards decision to fire someone over what one of their teachers posted on facebook. And if that were the case, I would certainly support a school district in that ability regardless of whether or not I agreed with what was said.
however if you look at what he wrote it was alot worse
This strikes me as somebody who decided to post something in a moment of anger and now that he's dealing with the consequences he decides to cry Free Speech.
I'm sure the administrators had to wonder that if that's how he feels about such things, what if he were to have a gay student, or a student whose had same-sex parents. Would he have that attitude towards them? And if he already had such students in the school, those comments could alienate them. Whether it be about same-sex marriage, politics, religion, or whatever, I think schools want their faculty to be a little more tolerant than that, as I'm sure most schools probably want to teach tolerance to the student body.
And if you turn the tables and say the same school had a gay teacher who had come out and said that heterosexuals make him sick and all that, he would probably have been dismissed as well.
Not at all. I'm not saying anything too complicated.
But let me try and say it plainer. If the person spews hatred, bigotry, racism, or identify's himself with views or behavior that is harmful, then I would support the school if they choose not maintain his employment.
I wouldn't support them if they fired him for a frivolous or unjust reason. But I don't think that is the case here.
Also agree with this. It's how he said it in this case as much as what he said.
Just what I was thinking, Who Princess. Buell stated that he made the comments on his own personal time, own personal home, own personal computer etc. Yet it surprises me that anyone- especially an educator- thinks of Facebook as personal. I would not want someone with that kind of homophobic inclination (or any other overt predjudice) and lack of ability to make sensible choices teaching my kids.
that's not what it was and you know it. he didn't say "I think Ford Mustangs suck". He said homosexuality is a sin. That's bigotry, intolerance, etc. No place for that shit. Not to mention he's dumb enough to put it out there knowing full well it wouldn't be cool with his profession.
I know of lawyers, IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, that have been canned for raunchy party pics on facebook. They say that jails are full of idiots. I say facebook is the same damn thing.
if you think being pro-gay and anti-gay should have the same consequences, let me ask you this: If someone says they like black people, and think they should sit at the front of the bus, that's something they should be punished for? REALLY?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
that sort of shit is unacceptable, and he shouldn't be suspended, he shoud be canned outright.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
If he had said "people who do not support gay marriage make me want to puke... they are scum... God will come and get them in the end," then yeah... he probably would have been out on his ass in that case, too.
If he had starred in a home porn movie with a goat.... you think the "I did it on my own time and in my own house on my own camera with my own goat" thing would have flown?
Or if he'd posted something like "The holocaust didn't happen, Jews are monkeys and swine, Hitler was a great man with a great plan" on his "own computer on his own time in his own house," you think the school would overlook that?
We can play this game all day.
He was in the wrong.
What he said was irrelevant. The actual question is whether or not a school can fire you for something you post on facebook. A law firm is a private business and can fire you for whatever they want or no reason at all.
I said earlier I would probably support a school in suspending/terminating something written on facebook for what they determined to be inappropriate. I'm not going to change my stance even though I might agree and/or disagree with what they said.
I'm not going to speculate about what a school would have done in different situations, I don't have any idea how they would react.
My point was this, I think there is a legal inconsistency of supporting to fire this guy but not supporting to fire a school district for firing a teacher for posting pro-gay marriage comments, if that were to occur. It might be consistent within your own values or even within societies values, but legally, it is completely inconsistent. Either a teacher has free speech on facebook or he doesn't. End of story.
this isn't about free speech. He is still free to say whatever he wants. Speech has consequences. They aren't taking away his freedom, they are suspending him for conduct seen as deplorable and probably violating his union contract. as for the larger point you tried to make, being for the right for all to get married isn't discriminatory. It isn't a double standard, it isn't even close.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I said in the OP that I don't believe school districts are bound by the first amendment, so I never meant to say this guy has a right to free speech, though it seemed to come off that way. What I'm saying is that if you support the right of a school district to suspend him for conduct seen as deplorable, then who determines what is seen as deplorable, you or the school district?
The way you're treating this issue is akin to comparing a paramedic to a serial killer. Firing somebody for public intolerance when his position strictly prohibits such an act isn't the same as firing somebody for trying to advocate tolerance. I'm not even sure that he was fired over his position on the issue; rather it was the way he expressed himself. If you're in a job which requires you to show tolerance to those you teach, lambasting them on facebook probably isn't going to do you much good. If his intolerance was directed towards any other group, odds are he still would have been handed his walking papers.
I understand why he was suspended, probably soon to be fire.
My point is, if you support the right of the school board to determine what they deem to be acceptable and unacceptable rhetoric, you are opening the door to a school board firing a teacher for something they deem to be unacceptable in which you completely disagree with them. The only recourse you would have is electing a new school board.
It seems the majority of this board believes this guy has no grounds for a lawsuit, in which I agree. Would a guy being fired for supporting gay marriage have grounds for a lawsuit?
That's just it; he directly went against his employer on a public forum. There's a reason that most people post anonymously on the internet. You're still culpable for your actions. This is doubly so when you work for a public institution which is subject to political sensitivities. As an employee of a school board, tact is an absolute necessity.
A teacher who posts comments that were so obviously blunt and politically charged is jeopardizing their career. The comments could have been about Christians, Muslims, ethnicity, social or economic status, or even about students in general; the outcome would have been the same. No school board wants a teacher who is going to invite political controversy into his or her classroom. This guy's conduct could easily invite lawsuits from parents and other advocacy groups who feel that certain learners are being unfairly discriminated against. As a professional, you really need to think about how you conduct yourself before you go on a rant that may ultimately cost you your job.
the teachers union and their collectively bargained contract usually.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
and that is why i have a hard time supporting teachers because their union is too ridiculously powerful and makes it almost impossible to fire teachers short of them sleeping with their students.
fire him for being dumb enough to post such hate in a public forum. he can have those beliefs all he wants but posting them in a public forum shows a stupidity and misunderstanding of common sense and decency that he shouldn't be allowed to teach in a public school system. see ya chump.
and off topic i think we should stop giving teachers summers off, put them to work throughout the district/township and let them take vacations (you know days they get IN ADDITION to their summer offs) like the rest of the country. but that's just my opinion.
Haha... you're not even listening to yourself. Typical. You say "I'm not going to speculate" and then... you speculate. You say you have no idea how they would react... and then guess how people would react.
Not that it matters... saying you support or don't support gay marriage isn't what this guy was fired for. It was his very vile, hateful and rather vicious comments. "end of story" as you say.