Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:

bgivens33

Quite torn on this one... I don't necessarily believe a school district is bound by the first amendment, so in that regard I don't mind their actions. On the other hand, this guy seemed to be a great teacher and the idea that a school district can suspend you for remarks on your facebook page is a bit disturbing. I'm not sure that is a good way to attract young, talented, educators to your school district. I don't want to turn this into a gay marriage thread, because honestly, this issue doesn't have much to do with gay marriage.

Two links-

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/19/fl ... -facebook/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 31941.html

Wilds

When ever I see something like this I substitute the word 'inter-racial' for gay.

We wouldn't tolerate an educator coming out with that type of hatred, so I don't think we should tolerate them coming out with hatred against someones sexual identity.

Gay rights are our last civil rights. It will happen, just hasn't happened yet.

If you are against it, then consider yourself part of the old guard. The same one that was against woman's right to vote, and all other type of inequality.

IMO.

bgivens33

Again, what he said is irrelevant. It's a matter of supporting or opposing a school's ability to suspend/fire someone for what is posted on facebook. If you support a school to suspend someone for posting dissents against gay marriage, you'd have to support another school for suspending a teacher for posting comments in support of gay marriage. The moment you start looking at content, your support becomes conditional. IMO, that is a road our country doesn't want to go down.

Wilds

bgivens33 wrote:

Again, what he said is irrelevant. It's a matter of supporting or opposing a school's ability to suspend/fire someone for what is posted on facebook. If you support a school to suspend someone for posting dissents against gay marriage, you'd have to support another school for suspending a teacher for posting comments in support of gay marriage. The moment you start looking at content, your support becomes conditional. IMO, that is a road our country doesn't want to go down.

Well it was said in a public manner. That is the difference.

If he said all black people should be slaves. And that went out to 700 people, students, fellow teachers etc.

Officials say Buell had over 700 Facebook friends, therefore rendering his comments public.

Could the school ignore that.

I don't think so.

Now if he held his views to himself, then there wouldn't be an issue. It would have remained private.

He broke that by utilizing a widely distributed type of social media.


His views were no longer private, and therefore the school had the right to take action.

bgivens33

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

Wilds

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

No, but I also wouldn't support a school doing the same thing for a teacher denouncing slavery.


One point of view is hate full and discriminatory and the other is about equal rights and respect for your fellow humans.


If a school suspended someone for supporting civil rights I don't think the school would be in the right.

keeponrockin

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

What if a teacher spoke out FOR segregation vs. against it? Should you suspend both?

bgivens33

Wilds wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

No, but I also wouldn't support a school doing the same thing for a teacher denouncing slavery.


One point of view is hate full and discriminatory and the other is about equal rights and respect for your fellow humans.


If a school suspended someone for supporting civil rights I don't think the school would be in the right.

So you support the school to suspend someone, only if you disagree with what the person said?

I guess that is what I'm trying to avoid, conditional support and opposition.

bgivens33

keeponrockin wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

What if a teacher spoke out FOR segregation vs. against it? Should you suspend both?

I'm not sure. I think at the end of the day, I would decide to back the school boards decision to fire someone over what one of their teachers posted on facebook. And if that were the case, I would certainly support a school district in that ability regardless of whether or not I agreed with what was said.

satansbed

if he said i am against gay marriage but was coridal and fair about it he wouldn't have been suspended

however if you look at what he wrote it was alot worse

Jerry Buell, a history teacher at Mount Dora High School in Mount Dora, Fla. wrote on his Facebook page that he "almost threw up" when he was having dinner and news came on of New York's decision to allow same-sex marriage showed up July 25.

"If they want to call it a union, go ahead," Buell wrote, according to ClickOrlando.com. "But don't insult a man and woman's marriage by throwing it in the same cesspool as same-sex whatever! God will not be mocked. When did this sin become acceptable???"

Who Princess

I noticed in the article that he made a big deal of the fact that he posted it on his own time, in his own home, on his own computer. I could probably buy that if he wrote it in his journal (if anybody still keeps those) but putting it in a place where it could be viewed so publicly just destroys his argument. Apparently his school had an ethics code for teachers and this violated that code. Seems hard to believe he wasn't aware of that after teaching there for so many years.

This strikes me as somebody who decided to post something in a moment of anger and now that he's dealing with the consequences he decides to cry Free Speech.

SatansFuton

Yeah, I think it has less to do with what he feels or believes, and more to do with the how he said it, and the fact that he said it in such a public way. Calling same-sex relationships a "cesspool", saying it mocks God and is a sin, as well as saying he "almost threw up" when he heard about New York's decision to allow gay marriage. That's not just opposition, that's bigotry.

I'm sure the administrators had to wonder that if that's how he feels about such things, what if he were to have a gay student, or a student whose had same-sex parents. Would he have that attitude towards them? And if he already had such students in the school, those comments could alienate them. Whether it be about same-sex marriage, politics, religion, or whatever, I think schools want their faculty to be a little more tolerant than that, as I'm sure most schools probably want to teach tolerance to the student body.

And if you turn the tables and say the same school had a gay teacher who had come out and said that heterosexuals make him sick and all that, he would probably have been dismissed as well.

Wilds

bgivens33 wrote:

Wilds wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

No, but I also wouldn't support a school doing the same thing for a teacher denouncing slavery.


One point of view is hate full and discriminatory and the other is about equal rights and respect for your fellow humans.


If a school suspended someone for supporting civil rights I don't think the school would be in the right.

So you support the school to suspend someone, only if you disagree with what the person said?

I guess that is what I'm trying to avoid, conditional support and opposition.

Not at all. I'm not saying anything too complicated.

But let me try and say it plainer. If the person spews hatred, bigotry, racism, or identify's himself with views or behavior that is harmful, then I would support the school if they choose not maintain his employment.

I wouldn't support them if they fired him for a frivolous or unjust reason. But I don't think that is the case here.

Wilds

satansbed wrote:

if he said i am against gay marriage but was coridal and fair about it he wouldn't have been suspended

however if you look at what he wrote it was alot worse

Jerry Buell, a history teacher at Mount Dora High School in Mount Dora, Fla. wrote on his Facebook page that he "almost threw up" when he was having dinner and news came on of New York's decision to allow same-sex marriage showed up July 25.

"If they want to call it a union, go ahead," Buell wrote, according to ClickOrlando.com. "But don't insult a man and woman's marriage by throwing it in the same cesspool as same-sex whatever! God will not be mocked. When did this sin become acceptable???"

Also agree with this. It's how he said it in this case as much as what he said.

brianlux

Who Princess wrote:

I noticed in the article that he made a big deal of the fact that he posted it on his own time, in his own home, on his own computer. I could probably buy that if he wrote it in his journal (if anybody still keeps those) but putting it in a place where it could be viewed so publicly just destroys his argument. Apparently his school had an ethics code for teachers and this violated that code. Seems hard to believe he wasn't aware of that after teaching there for so many years.

This strikes me as somebody who decided to post something in a moment of anger and now that he's dealing with the consequences he decides to cry Free Speech.

Just what I was thinking, Who Princess. Buell stated that he made the comments on his own personal time, own personal home, own personal computer etc. Yet it surprises me that anyone- especially an educator- thinks of Facebook as personal. I would not want someone with that kind of homophobic inclination (or any other overt predjudice) and lack of ability to make sensible choices teaching my kids.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bgivens33 wrote:

So you support the school to suspend someone, only if you disagree with what the person said?

I guess that is what I'm trying to avoid, conditional support and opposition.

that's not what it was and you know it. he didn't say "I think Ford Mustangs suck". He said homosexuality is a sin. That's bigotry, intolerance, etc. No place for that shit. Not to mention he's dumb enough to put it out there knowing full well it wouldn't be cool with his profession.

I know of lawyers, IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, that have been canned for raunchy party pics on facebook. They say that jails are full of idiots. I say facebook is the same damn thing.

if you think being pro-gay and anti-gay should have the same consequences, let me ask you this: If someone says they like black people, and think they should sit at the front of the bus, that's something they should be punished for? REALLY?

Hugh Freaking Dillon

chances are this douchebag has a student or more that is gay. how would that make you feel going to class knowing your teacher, the guy who grades you, thinks you are evil incarnate?

that sort of shit is unacceptable, and he shouldn't be suspended, he shoud be canned outright.

Prince Of Dorkness

bgivens33 wrote:

Would support a school doing the same thing if he had posted in support of gay marriage?

If he had said "people who do not support gay marriage make me want to puke... they are scum... God will come and get them in the end," then yeah... he probably would have been out on his ass in that case, too.

Prince Of Dorkness

Just out of curiosity, if he was screwing an 18 year-old female student... but "on my own time in my own house and in my own bed," You think the school would say "Oh... well then.. that's ok."

If he had starred in a home porn movie with a goat.... you think the "I did it on my own time and in my own house on my own camera with my own goat" thing would have flown?

Or if he'd posted something like "The holocaust didn't happen, Jews are monkeys and swine, Hitler was a great man with a great plan" on his "own computer on his own time in his own house," you think the school would overlook that?

We can play this game all day.

Claireack

Outspoken discrimination against anyone has no place in education. By posting it on fb he put it in the public domain, where students/parents/colleagues/the general public can see/find out about it.

He was in the wrong.

bgivens33

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

So you support the school to suspend someone, only if you disagree with what the person said?

I guess that is what I'm trying to avoid, conditional support and opposition.

that's not what it was and you know it. he didn't say "I think Ford Mustangs suck". He said homosexuality is a sin. That's bigotry, intolerance, etc. No place for that shit. Not to mention he's dumb enough to put it out there knowing full well it wouldn't be cool with his profession.

I know of lawyers, IN PRIVATE PRACTICE, that have been canned for raunchy party pics on facebook. They say that jails are full of idiots. I say facebook is the same damn thing.

if you think being pro-gay and anti-gay should have the same consequences, let me ask you this: If someone says they like black people, and think they should sit at the front of the bus, that's something they should be punished for? REALLY?

What he said was irrelevant. The actual question is whether or not a school can fire you for something you post on facebook. A law firm is a private business and can fire you for whatever they want or no reason at all.

I said earlier I would probably support a school in suspending/terminating something written on facebook for what they determined to be inappropriate. I'm not going to change my stance even though I might agree and/or disagree with what they said.