Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    redrock wrote:
    redrock wrote:

    This wasn't a question of free speech or not, but a question of school rules being broken and thus investigated as such.


    Exactly, but also a question as to if the school has the right to discipline it's employees for internet postings about current affairs.

    If it breaks one of the rules they set out in their books and the employee signed contract saying he would adhere to these rules, I guess they do have the right. If one does not want to accept the rules, one doesn't sign a contract. He was being investigated "as to whether he violated the district's code of ethics. The code prohibits behavior that is "unbecoming" or that "disrupts the orderly processes of the district." Additionally, the state education code of ethics calls for educators to value the "worth and dignity of every person."

    As a teacher whose role is to impart his knowledge, he must be credible to ALL his students. In my eyes, this person has lost all credibility as a teacher. I understand he is now speaking at a rally... Though one wonders if he is slightly delusional: "
    On one of his class pages on the Mount Dora High website, Buell said he tried to "teach and lead my students as if Lake Co. Schools had hired Jesus Christ himself."


    How can he hope to gain any respect from these young people now? Obviously, this 'credibility'/respect thing would vary with different 'types' of schools.

    Again, but does the school have the right to have that code of conduct reaching into their employees personal lives on their computers? And for what topics/issues should they have that right, if they should have it at all. Just because it's in place, doesn't mean it's ok.

    As for the posting, regardless of religion, wouldn't it be great if everyone was like Jesus Christ (either the character or the real person depending on your view point)? But I certainly see your point how it starts to divide to use his name as opposed to the specific actions it means you will take as a teacher.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I'm not so sure it was about him hurting someone... he was found offensive

    if he had sugarcoated his feelings and tried to appear civil likely he'd still be teaching

    but the hate would be the same ... the opinion the same

    just cleaned up and tidy

    thats what is so hypocritical about the whole thing

    people get hurt everyday... everyone is challenged daily with people judging
    them on site, perceiving who they... assuming what they know...
    saying derogatory things ... spreading negative... spreading hate

    that hurts and is foolish but people continue to do it and think nothing of it

    then this man losses his job because of a careless rant ... yes.... I KNOW THE RULE IN PLACE!
    he really didn't hurt anyone he just pissed them off
    who would care what a person like him thinks anyways right... he's just a bigot right?
    now that is more judging and more slander
    because no one knows him or what may have triggered this
    after 22 years of being a rational caring teacher.

    He was way to candid in his belief to ever teach a child again although
    there is no evidence he ever taught a child anything he shouldn't

    I guess politically correct now means keep your mouth shut
    and agree with the majority

    I thought it was being open hearted, giving and forgiving, accepting of others
    having an open mind to other peoples choices in life, being understanding
    and actually attempting to spread love and be a good person and help others to be also
    to grow together into a caring society.

    Open mind open heart is not a pick or choose... it is a life's choice. one you make
    and use towards everyone.
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    redrock wrote:
    On one of his class pages on the Mount Dora High website, Buell said he tried to "teach and lead my students as if Lake Co. Schools had hired Jesus Christ himself."[/i]
    :shock: This is insane. Definitely puts a new spin on the inital facebook rant he posted. Does he teach at a christian school? (sorry if I missed that) I'm really speechless on this; it is quite unbelievable. He is really going over the edge.
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    pandora wrote:
    who would care what a person like him thinks anyways right...
    He is a teacher, which makes him an influential role model. And an apparent bigot publicly posting outrageously derogatory rants. It is hard for me to fathom that someone would think that his strong negative opinions on this subject would not influence how he interacts in a classroom, or in life. Were he not in his position AS A TEACHER, nobody would care what he said on facebook. (let's not forget the overly aforementioned policy).
  • pandora wrote:
    he really didn't hurt anyone he just pissed them off
    who would care what a person like him thinks anyways right... he's just a bigot right?

    Didn't hurt anyone?

    really?

    how about the gay kid in his class that looked up to him and now knows that the man he looks up to thinks he swims in a "cesspool?" and makes him want to "throw up?"

    Who cares what he thinks?

    Well, he was teacher of the year... I'd say a lot of people care what he thinks.

    Yes, he has "free speech." And free speech has consequences.

    I just hope no more gay kids kill themselves because of the words coming out of that ignorant fuck's mouth.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    edited August 2011
    EmBleve wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    who would care what a person like him thinks anyways right...
    He is a teacher, which makes him an influential role model. And an apparent bigot publicly posting outrageously derogatory rants. It is hard for me to fathom that someone would think that his strong negative opinions on this subject would not influence how he interacts in a classroom, or in life. Were he not in his position AS A TEACHER, nobody would care what he said on facebook. (let's not forget the overly aforementioned policy).


    It'll be interesting to see how else this is applied as we go further...

    Not to mention, I'm tired of people saying...it's their policy. That doesn't mean it's right. Hell, currently it's most states "policy" to agree with what the teacher posted, does that mean it's right?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Did I just read he can go back to teach?
    that is was found they violated his right to free speech?
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    "Sources close to the investigation told WFTV that the school board chose the easy way out. They say the board thought Buell had violated the rules, but didn't want to deal with a costly legal battle or backlash from the KKK, which had threatened to protest in front of the district headquarters."
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    He's been a really good teacher also for 22 years...

    I hope he makes a trip to the doctor to see if his outburst was health related like our employee
    experienced.

    I am glad if it is true he can teach again
    lets see how it all turns out... its good to give him a chance at least ....seeing his record

    and I hope the free speech thing gets handled
    for others in the future... no more stupid rules

    as far as young gays having trouble with being gay and any derogatory remarks made to them
    lets make sure there are plenty of good resources and support groups to help and guide
    and keep them strong in who they are

    I would like to see all people stop being so judgmental and abusive to each other

    it starts with each and everyone of us

    we are all role models each and every one of us

    we can start right here on the best band in the universe's website! 8-)

    we can try to be always kind and respectful to each
    other and try not to presume and judge but just love :D
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    aerial wrote:
    This teacher is full of hate (he is not full of "dislike"). I dislike the way he spreads hate. I dont hate him. See the difference?

    "As long as it hurts no one what is the big deal"... :? Seriously? You don't see how this hurts people?!?! He has hurt people, THAT'S THE POINT!

    I think people need to toughen up and grow up......

    When we are young we are very self-involved and naive. If growing up means becoming more wise and more more conscious of others, then the toughest job of growing up is doing just that- becoming more wise and learning to think about others. Saying hateful things about others is neither tough or grown up. And I don't see how being tolerant of others who say hateful things about ourselves or others has anything to do with being tough or grown up.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • pandora wrote:
    I would like to see all people stop being so judgmental and abusive to each other

    it starts with each and everyone of us

    we are all role models each and every one of us

    we can start right here on the best band in the universe's website! 8-)

    we can try to be always kind and respectful to each
    other and try not to presume and judge but just love :D

    Yeah, that hippie-dippie lesbo-love bullshit and the "Let's just all love each other" crap is what lead to things like Prop 8 passing and DOMA.

    Sorry... you have your love ins, I'll go fight for my rights and stand up for myself and the gay kids in that asshole's classroom who are too scared to stand up for themselves.
  • pandora wrote:
    Did I just read he can go back to teach?
    that is was found they violated his right to free speech?

    no, they did not "violate his right to free speech."

    They just didn't want to bother with the expensive lawsuit that the extreme Christian right was planning to fund. They were ready to spend tens of millions of dollars to get that asshole back in the classroom (and make as many headlines as possible to make an election issue out of it... those people are below nothing)... the school just decided to let him back to avoid the media circus what would hurt the school and the kids.

    Hope he "accidentally" trips down the stairs on his first day back.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    I would like to see all people stop being so judgmental and abusive to each other

    it starts with each and everyone of us

    we are all role models each and every one of us

    we can start right here on the best band in the universe's website! 8-)

    we can try to be always kind and respectful to each
    other and try not to presume and judge but just love :D

    Yeah, that hippie-dippie lesbo-love bullshit and the "Let's just all love each other" crap is what lead to things like Prop 8 passing and DOMA.

    Sorry... you have your love ins, I'll go fight for my rights and stand up for myself and the gay kids in that asshole's classroom who are too scared to stand up for themselves.
    You sound filled with hate and disgust just like the teacher we are discussing

    in almost every post to me you have made snide comments when you do not even know me :?

    just like the man we are talking about

    hate makes more hate

    love makes more love

    I guess if you don't believe in the power of love you will just stay a hater no better than the ones you hate
  • pandora wrote:
    You sound filled with hate and disgust just like the teacher we are discussing

    Well I'm lucky that I'm not a public employee, aren't I?

    in almost every post to me you have made snide comments when you do not even know me :?

    OK, honestly... you have to stop thinking that everything is about you. IT's not. The Brain Cell comment was an example... I make MANY example comments like that. I didn't realize that I had to spell it out or convey that in interpretive dance.

    There are no "snide" comments aimed at you, just this silly "if you love them, they will love you back" crap. Because it's just not true.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I see we will have to battle the rules that keep people under control in their private time whether in public or not.

    The rule could be changed to include only time on the job whatever job that is... like the office,
    the school, the organization... corporation etc

    no threats or enticing to harm anyone

    no slander towards a person or directed at an employee's employer or the like

    then any website could make their own rules for social safety
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    You sound filled with hate and disgust just like the teacher we are discussing

    Well I'm lucky that I'm not a public employee, aren't I?

    in almost every post to me you have made snide comments when you do not even know me :?

    OK, honestly... you have to stop thinking that everything is about you. IT's not. The Brain Cell comment was an example... I make MANY example comments like that. I didn't realize that I had to spell it out or convey that in interpretive dance.

    There are no "snide" comments aimed at you, just this silly "if you love them, they will love you back" crap. Because it's just not true.
    you don't even see or hear how you speak to me...

    this your quote
    OK.. let's break this down.

    I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.

    I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
    you and you directed at me and me

    meant to be snide meant to hurt
    no matter we don't need to discuss
    I'd rather not get this locked so others can still share their thoughts
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    pandora wrote:
    I see we will have to battle the rules that keep people under control in their private time whether in public or not.

    The rule could be changed to include only time on the job whatever job that is... like the office,
    the school, the organization... corporation etc

    no threats or enticing to harm anyone

    no slander towards a person or directed at an employee's employer or the like

    then any website could make their own rules for social safety
    Pandora, I have to say I'm a bit confused. You seem like the kind of person who likes people. You don't seem biased or prejudiced. You talk about the power of love (yes, I'm fond of that sentiment in a naive, idealistic way myself even though I know in reality love does not always receive love in return). And yet you spend a lot of time defending the actions of someone who publicly aired hateful feelings toward others. Does that mean you believe the "right" to say anything a person wants to trumps respect for others? Maybe you have other reasons for defending this homophic hateful man, but I don't get it.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    brianlux wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I see we will have to battle the rules that keep people under control in their private time whether in public or not.

    The rule could be changed to include only time on the job whatever job that is... like the office,
    the school, the organization... corporation etc

    no threats or enticing to harm anyone

    no slander towards a person or directed at an employee's employer or the like

    then any website could make their own rules for social safety
    Pandora, I have to say I'm a bit confused. You seem like the kind of person who likes people. You don't seem biased or prejudiced. You talk about the power of love (yes, I'm fond of that sentiment in a naive, idealistic way myself even though I know in reality love does not always receive love in return). And yet you spend a lot of time defending the actions of someone who publicly aired hateful feelings toward others. Does that mean you believe the "right" to say anything a person wants to trumps respect for others? Maybe you have other reasons for defending this homophic hateful man, but I don't get it.
    I am confused ... you are judging this man :? On one rant really?
    After 22 years of good behavior admired and loved teacher?
    You drop kick him just like that. And label him too?

    Did you read about our employee experience...
    classic case of health issues when one suddenly behaves out of character
    and it can be as subtle as presentation of ones beliefs.

    I give people the benefit of the doubt this because I do not have all the facts
    I'm not part of a lynch mob ever unless I would perceive evil which I do not in this case.

    I also am very much against this 'rule' and feel it removes a basic right if you want
    a job.

    I believe people should be allowed to be themselves and speak their minds
    do I wish they were filed with love and kindness yes

    as I mentioned in a recent post

    Open mind open heart is not a pick or choose... it is a life's choice one you make
    and use towards everyone.

    And I try to do just that.... try

    If a world as a whole would believe love brings love in return it will ...
    kindness and love do make more
    just like the case of the poster here... hate from hate makes more hate
    and then blinded by hate.

    its a reaction to the action if I may quote an idea from the wonderful Jack White.
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    I didn't read any of the posts here except the OP.

    If anything, we should learn not to post anything on the internet that could bite us back in the long run. Yet people continue to do it every single day. When will society learn? It's just a shame that adults should know better, like this guy. Kids, I expect it from...

    It's become very common that what you write publicly online, is seen by your employers. This guy should have thought about that... And any hate talk (which is what he did) is not taken lightly by anyone, nor should be. It's justified that he was suspended.

    ETA: This is not about freedom of speech either. It's about stupidity.
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    pandora wrote:
    I am confused ... you are judging this man :? On one rant really?
    After 22 years of good behavior admired and loved teacher?
    You drop kick him just like that. And label him too?

    Did you read about our employee experience...
    classic case of health issues when one suddenly behaves out of character
    and it can be as subtle as presentation of ones beliefs.

    I give people the benefit of the doubt this because I do not have all the facts
    I'm not part of a lynch mob ever unless I would perceive evil which I do not in this case.

    I think its great that you dont rush judgement and give him the benefit of the doubt, but you must remember this guy was given a chance to apologize and I am understanding that he refused. He could easily have said, "yes I disagree with gay marriage, but my hateful and distasteful remarks were inappropriate." Does it not say anything to his merit that a group like the KKK has threatened to protest in his defense??
    pandora wrote:
    I believe people should be allowed to be themselves and speak their minds
    do I wish they were filed with love and kindness yes

    as I mentioned in a recent post

    Open mind open heart is not a pick or choose... it is a life's choice one you make
    and use towards everyone.[/b]

    There's got to be a line drawn somewhere though. What if i'm a nudist and want to be myself? I realize that I cannot be a nudist and work where I work. There is compromise in everything we do, and this guys hateful bigoted remarks are not in line with the conduct of a teacher of children. End of story.

    an Open mind and an open heart is something this man chose not to embrace. And yes, he is attempting to be hurtful to an entire demographic of people...People who are constantly fighting for equal rights. I'm sure whenever a close-minded hateful person like this says the things like that, it makes that entire demographic feel like they have a hateful adversary. What he said has hurt many, many people and i'm surprised you can't see that.

    He's been given several chances, this isnt a fluke of out of character remarks. I just hope that he doesnt hurt more children with his hate.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    Does it not say anything to his merit that a group like the KKK has threatened to protest in his defense??

    No that means nothing. Only that they are capitalizing on the publicity involved in this case.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    There's got to be a line drawn somewhere though. What if i'm a nudist and want to be myself? I realize that I cannot be a nudist and work where I work. There is compromise in everything we do, and this guys hateful bigoted remarks are not in line with the conduct of a teacher of children. End of story.


    You can be a nudist at your home though...end of story.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    There's got to be a line drawn somewhere though. What if i'm a nudist and want to be myself? I realize that I cannot be a nudist and work where I work. There is compromise in everything we do, and this guys hateful bigoted remarks are not in line with the conduct of a teacher of children. End of story.


    You can be a nudist at your home though...end of story.
    he didn't say what he said in his own home. He put it on a facebook wall where it could reach hundreds, if not thousands of people. And he didn't care who heard him. It's weird because now with technology, there are all these other rules and regulations and policies that have to be in place because the line of 'privacy' is so gray anymore. In Jonny's example, if he wants to be a nudist in his own home; nobody will know about it. The teacher said what he did in a forum which he knew very well was seen by many. He also knew he could suffer consequences for it.
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Does it not say anything to his merit that a group like the KKK has threatened to protest in his defense??

    No that means nothing. Only that they are capitalizing on the publicity involved in this case.

    It does in my opinion. You dont often see the KKK supporting anything other that hate.

    There's got to be a line drawn somewhere though. What if i'm a nudist and want to be myself? I realize that I cannot be a nudist and work where I work. There is compromise in everything we do, and this guys hateful bigoted remarks are not in line with the conduct of a teacher of children. End of story.


    You can be a nudist at your home though...end of story.

    Exactly my point.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    EmBleve wrote:
    There's got to be a line drawn somewhere though. What if i'm a nudist and want to be myself? I realize that I cannot be a nudist and work where I work. There is compromise in everything we do, and this guys hateful bigoted remarks are not in line with the conduct of a teacher of children. End of story.


    You can be a nudist at your home though...end of story.
    he didn't say what he said in his own home. He put it on a facebook wall where it could reach hundreds, if not thousands of people. And he didn't care who heard him. It's weird because now with technology, there are all these other rules and regulations and policies that have to be in place because the line of 'privacy' is so gray anymore. In Jonny's example, if he wants to be a nudist in his own home; nobody will know about it. The teacher said what he did in a forum which he knew very well was seen by many. He also knew he could suffer consequences for it.

    Yes EmBleve, thats my point. Also, I could be a nudist in my home.. then maybe set up a webcam and put a link online. If I were a teacher and did this, it would probably be inappropriate behavior once I unleashed it on society.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    EmBleve wrote:


    You can be a nudist at your home though...end of story.
    he didn't say what he said in his own home. He put it on a facebook wall where it could reach hundreds, if not thousands of people. And he didn't care who heard him. It's weird because now with technology, there are all these other rules and regulations and policies that have to be in place because the line of 'privacy' is so gray anymore. In Jonny's example, if he wants to be a nudist in his own home; nobody will know about it. The teacher said what he did in a forum which he knew very well was seen by many. He also knew he could suffer consequences for it.

    Yes EmBleve, thats my point. Also, I could be a nudist in my home.. then maybe set up a webcam and put a link online. If I were a teacher and did this, it would probably be inappropriate behavior once I unleashed it on society.


    Hmmm...interesting. But a bit more complicated than just words due to the teacher-student sex issues that pop up all the time.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    Yes EmBleve, thats my point. Also, I could be a nudist in my home.. then maybe set up a webcam and put a link online. If I were a teacher and did this, it would probably be inappropriate behavior once I unleashed it on society.
    winner..
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    Hmmm...interesting. But a bit more complicated than just words due to the teacher-student sex issues that pop up all the time.
    of course, but it wasn't 'just words'. It was slinging hate. 'Just words' would be "I disagree with what happened today in New York with gay marriage". Big difference.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I'm not sure anyone here said it was not hate

    you read the words you feel the hate

    you can read words here and feel the hate

    but people have the right to hate and express that even though we wish they wouldn't
  • EmBleveEmBleve Posts: 3,019
    pandora wrote:
    I'm not sure anyone here said it was not hate

    you read the words you feel the hate

    you can read words here and feel the hate

    but people have the right to hate and express that even though we wish they wouldn't
    Yes, they do have the right to express that. They also have an obligation to their profession and all it entails. It was irresponsible and it is ignorant, imo. I would not want him anywhere near my kid (unless I join the white aryan nation, which is most unlikely).
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