Florida Teacher suspended over anti-homosexual remarks:

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  • Prince Of Dorkness
    Prince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    pandora wrote:
    I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
    so we can all keep our freedom of speech

    Um... he still has his "Freedom of speech." He wasn't arrested.

    OK.. let's break this down.

    I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.

    I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
    when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.

    And this is not a felony so .... :?

    Saying "I think my boss if a moron and I hate his guts" is not a felony. Why don't you go post that on Twitter and Facebook. Come back and tell us what happens.
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
    so we can all keep our freedom of speech

    Um... he still has his "Freedom of speech." He wasn't arrested.

    OK.. let's break this down.

    I have an opinion on the amount of brain cells that you have. But until I say something about it... I won't get banned from posting here at AMT.

    I can still think what I think about you... but I'm not allowed to SAY it here. Now, if I WAS to say it... it's still my right to say it and I won't get arrested but I probably WILL get a reprimand for posting it on a public forum.
    when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.

    And this is not a felony so .... :?

    Saying "I think my boss if a moron and I hate his guts" is not a felony. Why don't you go post that on Twitter and Facebook. Come back and tell us what happens.
    I'm my own boss and I don't do facebook or twitter think they are really meaningless.

    I get your point though with the few brain cells I have left ;)
    quite proud of the few I have left too
    but even more so of my heart :D

    But I get your need to put someone down kind of like the haters I mentioned before,
    careful that makes you no better.

    He didn't say a damn thing about his boss though so your example doesn't work.
    Getting banned in a public forum is not like losing your livelihood either.
    He should lose his job if he said it in the classroom
    He should not lose his job for stating a personal opinion not in the classroom IMO.

    Perhaps a lawyer will help him work that out. I hope so.
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    pandora wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
    HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...
    HE ISN'T BEING DISCIPLINED FOR HAVING AN OPINION...

    Now that that has sunk in, he is being disciplined for the way he chose to express it by his EMPLOYER. and yes, companies can fire you for all sorts of things that you do on your own time. If you commit a felony on your own time you are still able to be fired for it. Happens to NFLers all the time. When you are employed by someone you represent them all the time. Some employers care about their public image and some do not...those that do will have a personal conduct policy in their contracts. IGNORANCE OF THE RULES is no defense to them.
    what about the analogy to interracial marriage? do you think he could keep his job if he used very negative language about it?

    And you are right, it is not bullying to simply say you do not agree with some behavior...it is when you make people feel like less than human because of that behavior. And no one forced him to accept it. He isn't being punished for having an opinion
    As far as the part in bold above. It did change his ability to teach. It outed an intolerant person who has contact with gay kids or friends of gay kids guaranteed. his ability to teach those will now be forever changed. It is okay to disagree, it is okay to have an opinion, you just should be prepared for the consequences of how you choose to make that opinion known.
    I don't think you understand... I need to say it again

    HE SHOULD NOT BE FIRED FOR STATING HIS OPINION :lol:
    if he had not stated his opinion he wouldn't be fired
    so yes he is being fired for stating his opinion and not in the classroom either

    my biggest point
    NOT IN THE CLASSROOM!

    And I do understand what you are saying but I am saying he should not be fired for this.
    This is not a private company pretty sure it is a public school and this teacher, as I said,
    should be allowed to return because he has supporters and has been a great teacher for 22 years!
    See how it goes evaluate the situation based on many factors.


    I hope he fights like hell so that a new precedent is in place for others
    so we can all keep our freedom of speech
    when it comes to our employment and speaking our opinions whatever they maybe.

    And this is not a felony so .... :?

    you are right it isn't a felony, but you could see the line or reasoning. People are let go all the time for behavior they do on their own time, up to and including a felonies.
    So we both have it right, he isn't being disciplined because of his opinion, he is being disciplined because of HOW he CHOSE to express it...hatefully. Like I said it is different to say you are against same sex marriage and to talk about how disgusted you are because of it. Those are different ways to say the same thing, and if you choose the latter you need to be prepared for the consequences up to and including losing your job.
    This isn't about freedom of speech. this is violating the terms of your employer. It is worse because he is a public school teacher and not an employee of a private firm, not the other way around.

    Also, does this opinion freedom allow him to say that he thinks that same race water fountains make him sick? is race speech protected? should a teacher be allowed to say hateful things about a race of people and then have to go back to work where he teaches those same people?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    Also, does this opinion freedom allow him to say that he thinks that same race water fountains make him sick? is race speech protected? should a teacher be allowed to say hateful things about a race of people and then have to go back to work where he teaches those same people?


    He would be ostracized if he did.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    This my point continually....

    This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
    will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.

    His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
    as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
    This where the employer or school should have authority.


    When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
    he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
    Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.

    We can only hope.

    Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....

    when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
    it rubs off. :D
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    pandora wrote:
    This my point continually....

    This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
    will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.

    His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
    as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
    This where the employer or school should have authority.


    When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
    he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
    Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.

    We can only hope.

    Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....

    when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
    it rubs off. :D


    fair enough, as long as he keeps his discourse civil I don't think he will have a problem. that is why he had a problem here. He delivered it in a hateful, discriminatory way.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    This my point continually....

    This needs to be changed. He should not lose his job for this and hopefully a good lawyer
    will get him through this so he can continue with his successful career of 22 years.

    His opinion, however he states it, he should be free to share and learn from
    as long as it is not in the classroom directed at his students.
    This where the employer or school should have authority.


    When he is allowed to return... hopefully,
    he and everyone will have learned more understanding.
    Everyone is learning... even the haters ... to understand a little better.

    We can only hope.

    Golden Rule... give the guy another shot and see where he goes....

    when you give the golden rule the receipent learns the golden rule....
    it rubs off. :D


    fair enough, as long as he keeps his discourse civil I don't think he will have a problem. that is why he had a problem here. He delivered it in a hateful, discriminatory way.
    the problem with that though it is still hate... civil hate still hate
    just sneaky hate, a jab or a demeaning comment, is just as hurtful...
    something many don't seem to get... spreads the negative ... kills the civil.

    I would assume facebook would have rules against this kind of stuff
    I'd like to see that over an employer or school unless it was a case of direct slander
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    Two articles, that could shed some light on this discussion and demonstrates that Buell had no guarantee right to privacy on these social network forums, therefore, his freedom of speech was not at issue and his employer, the State Board of Education had every right to act upon a complaint.


    Background Checks Now Include Twitter, Facebook

    By ALAN FARNHAM
    June 24, 2011

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/job-twee ... d=13908874

    If you've ever posted anything that suggests you might be somebody who likes a racist joke, drinks too much booze or maybe is a bit too fond of guns—these all can be grounds for an employer telling you, "Thanks, but no."
    And it's all perfectly legal. The Federal Trade Commission has just given the okay for Social Intelligence Corp. to sell these reports to employers and the file will last for seven long years.

    45% Employers use Facebook-Twitter to screen job candidates

    http://oregonbusinessreport.com/2009/08 ... andidates/

    August 24, 2009

    Forty-five Percent of Employers Use Social Networking Sites to Research Job Candidates, CaeerBuilder Survey Finds
    Career Expert Provides DOs and DON’Ts for Job Seekers on Social Networking

    CHICAGO, August 19, 2009 – As social networking grows increasingly pervasive, more employers are utilizing these sites to screen potential employees. Forty-five percent of employers reported in a recent CareerBuilder survey that they use social networking sites to research job candidates, a big jump from 22 percent last year. Another 11 percent plan to start using social networking sites for screening. More than 2,600 hiring managers participated in the survey, which was completed in June 2009.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.

    This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.

    This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"

    How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.


    I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
    and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
    Disagreements do not equal hate.....
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,133
    aerial wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.

    This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.

    This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"

    How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.


    I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
    and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
    Disagreements do not equal hate.....
    if it is not hate, what do you call it when you want to deny a group of people the same legal rights that you have?

    discrimination maybe?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,133
    i think the teacher should have known better than to post things that his work, people he might know on a professional level, or students might find offensive.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.

    This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.

    This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"

    How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.


    I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
    and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
    Disagreements do not equal hate.....
    if it is not hate, what do you call it when you want to deny a group of people the same legal rights that you have?

    discrimination maybe?

    Well, I would call it the law in most states. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,133
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Well, I would call it the law in most states. ;)
    doesn't make it right though.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • aerial
    aerial Posts: 2,319
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    Just to bring this back to a non-hypothetical, real-life instance.

    This is a man who said that gay marriage makes him want to "throw up" and called gay unions a "cesspool." And he chose a very public forum to do it.

    This man is not a role model, he's just a classless bully who likes to use foul language to describe people he doesn't like. F*ck him. Hope he has to take a job saying "you want fries with that?"

    How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.


    I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
    and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
    Disagreements do not equal hate.....
    if it is not hate, what do you call it when you want to deny a group of people the same legal rights that you have?

    discrimination maybe?

    a difference of opinion...and that is all
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i think the teacher should have known better than to post things that his work, people he might know on a professional level, or students might find offensive.


    So basically, not post anything, because you will offend someone with anything.

    I don't agree with what he said. I just wonder if perhaps we are getting to far into people's personal lives.

    I understand what know1 is saying about jobs and they have the right to fire you for any reason...but that's not really true due to protected classes, etc.

    I'd have a bigger problem if it was violent or inciting violence in anyway, but I don't think it was.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Prince Of Dorkness
    Prince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    aerial wrote:
    How do you judge as you do the same thing when you say F*ck him? Sounds like foul language and hate to me.

    Maybe. And if I was a teacher or held a job where "fuck him" wasn't a stage direction, maybe I'd get fired for saying it. But I chose a job and industry where it's OK to say that. He didn't.
    I do not hate gays yet I do not believe the same sex should marry. Does that make me a hater? NO,
    and It still creeps me out seeing the same sex kissing and making out. Does that mean I hate them? NO,
    Disagreements do not equal hate.....

    Bud obvious discrimination does.

    you say you don't "hate gays" (by the way... I'm not "a gay"... I'm a person who is gay.) But you don't want us to have the same rights and protections or responsibilities that you do. If it was just a "disagreement" then you'd just not support it but not keep it from me. That you actively would campaign to remove those rights from me to make sure I'm not legally equal to you... yeah, sorry... that's hate.
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • Prince Of Dorkness
    Prince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    aerial wrote:
    a difference of opinion...and that is all

    Well no... it's not a "difference of opinion."

    Opinion is "I think your wife is ugly."

    Discrimination is "I'm going to make laws to make sure that women I think are ugly can't marry and have the same rights that I do."
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I don't agree with what he said. I just wonder if perhaps we are getting to far into people's personal lives.

    I have been back and forth about this one.. I am leaning towards that he shouldnt have lost his job, BUT...

    Is there a difference of posting this stuff on a social media site, where it is read/heard by his peers and students, walking down the street and saying it out loud, or telling a co-worker at work that you are sickened by gay marriage? He put it out there in the open, and theoretically is there much of a difference if any of his students read that Vs. overhearing him saying these hateful remarks??
    I am beginning to feel it is the same thing.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    (by the way... I'm not "a gay"... I'm a person who is gay.)

    Actually, no you aren't according to the dictionary.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay



    Just look for the "noun" ;)

    And really, does it matter? Other than trying to put other people on edge for how they interact with you?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Prince Of Dorkness
    Prince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Prince Of Dorkness wrote:
    (by the way... I'm not "a gay"... I'm a person who is gay.)

    Actually, no you aren't according to the dictionary.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gay



    Just look for the "noun" ;)

    And really, does it matter? Other than trying to put other people on edge for how they interact with you?

    Yes. It does. I'm a person, not a thing.
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam

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