BIN LADEN IS DEAD

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  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    so you are upset that he wasn't caught earlier instead of being happy he was caught at all?

    also what proof would you require?[/quote]

    I'm not upset about him not being caught earlier, BUT it really should have been done shortly after 9/11 but we know that Bush had his sights on Iraq instead. This was long overdue.

    Any proof would suffice, but DNA would probably be the best, since you can skew photos and video. Capturing him would certainly provide more proof than this death certainly can.[/quote]

    I can't believe that i am going to do this but i am actually going to defend Bush. in reality, OBL was around doing some bad things even when Clinton was in office. too put all the blame on bush is not fair, there was a history of people screwing up.

    now as for the proof, there have been reports from the government that a DNA match was found, so what real proof do you really need. I personally believe that the reports are correct cause if not don't you think we would be hearing from experts saying how there is no way that DNA can be found as a match that early?
  • bytterman
    bytterman Posts: 136
    Monster Rain wrote:
    For those requiring proof, I'm sure the evidence will come out at some point. I'm far from Obama's biggest fan, but I doubt they are faking this. Skepticism is a good quality to have, but I believe that faking this would be an incredible political mistake that no first-term President would ever risk. To me, that's like saying the Bush administration planned and carried out 9/11. Possible? Sure. Plausible? Not unless you believe everything Jesse Ventura tells you and ignore the same evidence he ignores.

    What I found interesting about this is that government sources have already told the media that the initial tip that led to finding him came back in 2007 in Guantanamo. It took years of following that lead to the next, and that one to the next, and so on and so on, but I'd say it provides some sort of vindication for the people who thought that Guantanamo would yield results in this effort. Don't mistake this for me saying that Bush deserves the credit for this or that Obama doesn't deserve any credit. To me, it would be ridiculous to make either of those claims, but it's fair to say that each President played a role in the events leading to this day. How much credit you think either man deserves is up to you--I have no idea, but I think there was some groundwork laid from some unpopular decisions (depending on your views). Whatever the case may be, it was ultimately Obama who had to give the order to act upon the information and I have to say that he did it in a manner that I have no problems with whatsoever (and in a manner that I didn't really think he had the guts to do it--not telling other countries beforehand, including Pakistan). To share that information with anyone else could have caused potential leaks before the strike and we could have ended up with another case of just missing him (ie, the too-late missile strike after the USS Cole attack).

    Very well said. My feeling is that the US government has solid, irrefutable evidence that will come to light in due time, whatever due time happens to be in this case. The long term repercussion of his death is impossible to know, but I simply cannot see them having anything less than 100% certainty that it happened.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    fife wrote:

    now as for the proof, there have been reports from the government that a DNA match was found, so what real proof do you really need. I personally believe that the reports are correct cause if not don't you think we would be hearing from experts saying how there is no way that DNA can be found as a match that early?

    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    Links for conflicting reports? I don't believe it until I see proof.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Jeanwah wrote:
    fife wrote:

    now as for the proof, there have been reports from the government that a DNA match was found, so what real proof do you really need. I personally believe that the reports are correct cause if not don't you think we would be hearing from experts saying how there is no way that DNA can be found as a match that early?

    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.

    I don't believe everything I hear, but I agree with Godfather and Monster Rain on this -- that orchestrating cover-up of this magnitude would be political suicide if it ever came up to be false. if its fake, and bin laden shows up in a month, that would be hell for Obama. it is good and natural to question it though.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,129
    edited May 2011
    Jeanwah wrote:

    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.
    So you really believe that president obama went on national TV and lied and that our government does not have the ability to conduct a DNA test within 24 hrs?
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    the current trending topics on twitter

    #obl
    Osama
    #theyhatin
    Jack Bauer
    #siosamafueramexicano
    Seal Team
    God Bless America
    Toby Keith
    Mission Accomplished
    Pakistan

    :lol::lol: jack bauer cracks me up
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Jeanwah wrote:
    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.

    Let's follow this line of thinking (if that's what we want to call it). So, let's say he's not dead. What does Obama (and by extension the US) gain from that? A day of front page news?

    What's in it for Osama to stay hidden? Are we just gambling that he'll stay "gone" like he has for the recent past? Is this all an incredible ruse to get the rabbit to pop his head out of the hole, so we can THEN shoot it?

    I don't get what your perceived end game here is. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most of them follow no logical conclusion (I know - there is not logic - that's the beauty of them!).

    How many people would have to be in on this (including Osama and his immediate "handlers") to make something like this stick?

    I'm always baffled by what the conspiracy theorists think is actually a plausible - scratch that - possible reason for these great masterminded plans and how they think the true facts are kept secret by so many people including a bunch that actually have reason NOT to.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Links for conflicting reports? I don't believe it until I see proof.

    They're in this thread, I'd have to go back and find them, or you can if you're interested.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    fife wrote:

    now as for the proof, there have been reports from the government that a DNA match was found, so what real proof do you really need. I personally believe that the reports are correct cause if not don't you think we would be hearing from experts saying how there is no way that DNA can be found as a match that early?

    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.

    I don't believe everything I hear, but I agree with Godfather and Monster Rain on this -- that orchestrating cover-up of this magnitude would be political suicide if it ever came up to be false. if its fake, and bin laden shows up in a month, that would be hell for Obama. it is good and natural to question it though.

    I think you're right. And I'm hoping it's true, but to report on this while also saying, "the body's been disposed of into the sea", is saying that other than waiting for DNA reports, there really isn't any proof. You just have to believe what I'm saying. And to believe any politician, Obama or not, is difficult for me.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Jeanwah wrote:
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Links for conflicting reports? I don't believe it until I see proof.

    They're in this thread, I'd have to go back and find them, or you can if you're interested.

    There are conflicts on the exact details because the news organizations like to say they're first (and then we like to come here and be first here for some bizarre reason), when in fact we'd just like them to be right. But, there is no conflict on the fact that he is dead.

    Just because we don't know the exact caliber of the bullet that went through his skull doesn't mean he's not dead.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Sohaib Athar unknowingly tweeted about the attack on Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan. (Twitter / May 2, 2011)

    61310877.jpg
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    There are conflicting reports between this all happening a week ago (enough time to conduct accurate DNA testing) and Obama's orders came on April 30. If the latter is true, there is simply not enough time for accurate DNA tests.

    Let me ask you a question, and everyone else who are not at all skeptical.

    Why do you believe everything you read in the mainstream news? THERE IS NO PROOF YET. The body was thrown into the sea. Therefore questioning whether it really did happen and he's dead is completely natural.

    Let's follow this line of thinking (if that's what we want to call it). So, let's say he's not dead. What does Obama (and by extension the US) gain from that? A day of front page news?

    What's in it for Osama to stay hidden? Are we just gambling that he'll stay "gone" like he has for the recent past? Is this all an incredible ruse to get the rabbit to pop his head out of the hole, so we can THEN shoot it?

    I don't get what your perceived end game here is. Conspiracy theories are fun, but most of them follow no logical conclusion (I know - there is not logic - that's the beauty of them!).

    How many people would have to be in on this (including Osama and his immediate "handlers") to make something like this stick?

    I'm always baffled by what the conspiracy theorists think is actually a plausible - scratch that - possible reason for these great masterminded plans and how they think the true facts are kept secret by so many people including a bunch that actually have reason NOT to.

    My perceived end game? QUESTION EVERYTHING. Believe stories when proof is supplied. This is NOT conspiracy behavior, it's CRITICAL THINKING.

    And I'm always baffled by people who believe everything they hear.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    You can say I'm thick, but listening at the news, I really don't understand how one can say 'we have closure now' or 'the world is a safer place' following Bin Laden's death. It's absurd to think that....
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    Jeanwah wrote:
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Links for conflicting reports? I don't believe it until I see proof.

    They're in this thread, I'd have to go back and find them, or you can if you're interested.

    Hey man, if you can't provide proof...I don't believe it. It's not up to me to prove it.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Links for conflicting reports? I don't believe it until I see proof.
    http://www.thedailyaztec.com/2011/05/os ... n-is-dead/
    I posted another one earlier similar to this. I'm just saying that it is possible that a week ago is the time, and it has just been released. I just think it is interesting.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    But, there is no conflict on the fact that he is dead.
    Really? Then prove it.
    I'm not talking about news stories either. I mean actual proof that he was killed in the last 30 hours.
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Jeanwah wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    But, there is no conflict on the fact that he is dead.
    Really? Then prove it.

    Ok. I could just answer the more logical - prove there is conflict on that fact because it's impossible for me to prove there is no conflict (you can't prove something that hasn't happened).

    But, instead - first - I certainly don't believe everything I read and hear. But, my last question to you was CRITICAL thinking. Yours is not. I posed questions that you ignored. Please answer those, and then the rest of us will provide you with proof.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Jeanwah wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    But, there is no conflict on the fact that he is dead.
    Really? Then prove it.
    I'm not talking about news stories either. I mean actual proof that he was killed in the last 30 hours.

    Just curious to what your definition of proof would be. What would it take for you to believe?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    blackredyellow wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    EdsonNascimento wrote:
    But, there is no conflict on the fact that he is dead.
    Really? Then prove it.
    I'm not talking about news stories either. I mean actual proof that he was killed in the last 30 hours.

    Just curious to what your definition of proof would be. What would it take for you to believe?
    We've been through this. Accurate DNA reports (they can't be obtained within hours), but photos and videos can be skewed.

    I'm just wondering why it's OK to go ahead and release this news to the world when the body has been disposed of, and we're left to believe someone's word for it.

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