God... Christ... The Bible

Gern Blansten · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Any astronomer or scientist who goes on emperical evidence would tell you they have no clue how the universe, before the big bang, came into being. Nor do they have an explaination to the amazment of fine tuning this universe possesses for life to even exist.

incorrect....they have clues/ideas/theory's about all these things

read Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time"

the guy who said this?

“The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.”

“We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special.”

Stephen Hawking

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

A supernatural force is evil. Explain to me what evil is?

a god who kills (or lets die) someone in a car crash so that his friend will become a believer.

death is a result of our sinful nature. God doesnt kill or keep people from dying. The evil one made that disease that existed outside of the garden or made that guy drink before he got behind the wheel not God.

Explain what evil is because I assure you it isnt God. For one you accuse God of evil that would mean you believe in his existance. Then I would ask would an evil God make the choice to receive torture, public humiliation and 1000's of years of people like you telling him hes evil if he was evil?

no, I don't believe in his existence, and that's exactly the reason why. my belief would be that if there was a god, some of the things that happens on earth wouldn't. But maybe I misinterpret what you would say is god's ability in all of this. does he know what's going to happen in day to day life? does he have the ability to stop something from happening/make something happen?

my statement above was an example of how I think it is ludicrous that someone could come to believe in god because his friend died tragically.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I agree that its a possibility that god doesnt exist but from the evidence I've received in life makes me believe otherwise. God allows you to question Him he doesnt need to smite us we have already smited ourselves by living in sin. Dont tell me you dont sin because I could ride along with you in 5 oclock traffic and see a number of sins.

I tolerate the fact that people are lost and blind to truth and have compassion for them to eventually see the truth. Thats why I as a christian am so pushy with my beliefs.

I mean materialisim as a scientific theory that we are only a result of chemical reactions. If thats the case where does love come from? Where do we get heroes and people who deny what those chemical reactions in their brain are telling them to survive when they give up their lives for others?

thank you. that's it. the rest we can agree to disagree. man, that sure took a long time.

And yes, of course I sin as you call it. I call it being imperfect. it's called the journey of life and learning. I have no idea what significance that has in the context of this discussion. I have never claimed that I am 100% free of wrong. I don't know anyone that has.

how nice of you to tolerate all of us in the face of your obvious superiority.

redrock · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

death is a result of our sinful nature.

Even children? Aren't children supposed to be innocent in the eyes of the lord? Hmmm.......

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I agree that its a possibility that god doesnt exist but from the evidence I've received in life makes me believe otherwise. God allows you to question Him he doesnt need to smite us we have already smited ourselves by living in sin. Dont tell me you dont sin because I could ride along with you in 5 oclock traffic and see a number of sins.

I tolerate the fact that people are lost and blind to truth and have compassion for them to eventually see the truth. Thats why I as a christian am so pushy with my beliefs.

I mean materialisim as a scientific theory that we are only a result of chemical reactions. If thats the case where does love come from? Where do we get heroes and people who deny what those chemical reactions in their brain are telling them to survive when they give up their lives for others?

thank you. that's it. the rest we can agree to disagree. man, that sure took a long time.

And yes, of course I sin as you call it. I call it being imperfect. it's called the journey of life and learning. I have no idea what significance that has in the context of this discussion. I have never claimed that I am 100% free of wrong. I don't know anyone that has.

how nice of you to tolerate all of us in the face of your obvious superiority.

Then we both agree that its possible that I am speaking of the true God as well?

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

redrock wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

death is a result of our sinful nature.

Even children? Aren't children supposed to be innocent in the eyes of the lord? Hmmm.......

yes, the age of accountability spoken of in the bible. Tell me you dont support prochoice?

Gern Blansten · January 2010

he still stands wrote:

this thread is funny.

ELB ^^^ is talking about "cosmetology"

Did Jesus wear lipstick?

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a god who kills (or lets die) someone in a car crash so that his friend will become a believer.

death is a result of our sinful nature. God doesnt kill or keep people from dying. The evil one made that disease that existed outside of the garden or made that guy drink before he got behind the wheel not God.

Explain what evil is because I assure you it isnt God. For one you accuse God of evil that would mean you believe in his existance. Then I would ask would an evil God make the choice to receive torture, public humiliation and 1000's of years of people like you telling him hes evil if he was evil?

no, I don't believe in his existence, and that's exactly the reason why. my belief would be that if there was a god, some of the things that happens on earth wouldn't. But maybe I misinterpret what you would say is god's ability in all of this. does he know what's going to happen in day to day life? does he have the ability to stop something from happening/make something happen?

my statement above was an example of how I think it is ludicrous that someone could come to believe in god because his friend died tragically.[/quote][/quote]

Yes I dont think you are understanding Gods nature as opposed to human nature.

gods nature = good and perfect
human nature = evil/sinful

The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death. If he did one he would have to do all, ie Hitler, Manson. Since evil exists as a result of our sinful nature God uses those times to send the Spirit to bring us to God. God didnt make sin and death, we did.

What is evil?? Please answer this.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

I agree that its a possibility that god doesnt exist but from the evidence I've received in life makes me believe otherwise. God allows you to question Him he doesnt need to smite us we have already smited ourselves by living in sin. Dont tell me you dont sin because I could ride along with you in 5 oclock traffic and see a number of sins.

I tolerate the fact that people are lost and blind to truth and have compassion for them to eventually see the truth. Thats why I as a christian am so pushy with my beliefs.

I mean materialisim as a scientific theory that we are only a result of chemical reactions. If thats the case where does love come from? Where do we get heroes and people who deny what those chemical reactions in their brain are telling them to survive when they give up their lives for others?

thank you. that's it. the rest we can agree to disagree. man, that sure took a long time.

And yes, of course I sin as you call it. I call it being imperfect. it's called the journey of life and learning. I have no idea what significance that has in the context of this discussion. I have never claimed that I am 100% free of wrong. I don't know anyone that has.

how nice of you to tolerate all of us in the face of your obvious superiority.

Then we both agree that its possible that I am speaking of the true God as well?

in the absence of absolute knowledge, anything is possible.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

a god who kills (or lets die) someone in a car crash so that his friend will become a believer.

death is a result of our sinful nature. God doesnt kill or keep people from dying. The evil one made that disease that existed outside of the garden or made that guy drink before he got behind the wheel not God.

Explain what evil is because I assure you it isnt God. For one you accuse God of evil that would mean you believe in his existance. Then I would ask would an evil God make the choice to receive torture, public humiliation and 1000's of years of people like you telling him hes evil if he was evil?

no, I don't believe in his existence, and that's exactly the reason why. my belief would be that if there was a god, some of the things that happens on earth wouldn't. But maybe I misinterpret what you would say is god's ability in all of this. does he know what's going to happen in day to day life? does he have the ability to stop something from happening/make something happen?

my statement above was an example of how I think it is ludicrous that someone could come to believe in god because his friend died tragically.

[/quote]

Yes I dont think you are understanding Gods nature as opposed to human nature.

gods nature = good and perfect
human nature = evil/sinful

The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death. If he did one he would have to do all, ie Hitler, Manson. Since evil exists as a result of our sinful nature God uses those times to send the Spirit to bring us to God. God didnt make sin and death, we did.

What is evil?? Please answer this.[/quote]

as far as I'm concerned, the only evil that exists in the world comes from man himself. I'm guessing that is what you were driving at?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.

so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.

so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.

No one becomes a believer unless called by the spirit. The spirit is never wrong in reasoning. Everyone dies; its where your spirit transcends to after death that matters. You dont believe you burn in eternal torment not because of God but because of YOU.

Yes now you finally get it. The only evil that exists is because of man himself.

blended1 · January 2010

Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

EddieLedBetter wrote:

The friend would have died whether God intervened or not. For Him to intervene would be unjustly letting someone off the hook of being a sinner and bound by death.

so then the guy who became a believer as a result of his friend's death became a believer for the wrong reasons then? because he believes, as far as I can tell, that god sent an angel to intervene so he wouldn't die along with his friend.

No one becomes a believer unless called by the spirit. The spirit is never wrong in reasoning. Everyone dies; its where your spirit transcends to after death that matters. You dont believe you burn in eternal torment not because of God but because of YOU.

Yes now you finally get it. The only evil that exists is because of man himself.

I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.

I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.

Get it?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

blended1 wrote:

Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also

I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.

I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.

Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.

And who is angry at god, exactly?

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.

I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.

Get it?

You still havent answered what is evil?

blended1 · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

blended1 wrote:

Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also

I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.

I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.

Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.

And who is angry at god, exactly?

I will comment what I want when I want ! and in my experience non believers are virulent in shoving thier views down peoples throats how ever my question was why start with christ ? if you do not believe in a god then thats your perogative I think its just easier to pick apart christains then jews or moslems like I said wouldn't want to oftend and like I said human kind probably can not handle the truth

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

EddieLedBetter wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

I don't now "finally get it". That's insulting. I've always thought this. I don't believe in the form of evil as you call it (even a good portion of Christians don't believe in the devil). There is no devil. There's no "being" that is speaking to me, or forcing me to do stuff that I don't want to because of the absense of god in my life. I believe that all humans are inherently good, but some are not good. Some have chemical imbalances in their brain, some are just wired wrong.

I don't believe man is evil. You do. I believe that some individuals are bad people.

Get it?

You still havent answered what is evil?

yes I did, and you responded with your "yes, you finally get it" BS:

"as far as I'm concerned, the only evil that exists in the world comes from man himself."

And that's with regards to my definition of evil. With regards to yours (Satan), I don't believe it exists.

EddieLedBetter · January 2010

Johnny Sitar wrote:

I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.

I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.

Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.

And who is angry at god, exactly?

You have been condescending to me throughout this, you think I am ignorant. I think it is more ignorant to put belief in theory than in human eyewitness account and spiritual experience.

We are insistant because our God told us through hundreds of men who died getting this message out to us that it is the truth and we see how the world tries to debunk the truth. He didnt tell us "you'll see the truth and the truth will set you free" for nothing. So am I more ignorant because I put faith in something I have experienced working in my life or you putting faith in theory ultimately gambling with your souls final destination? Believers arent the ones blindly following a lie. The world is. We are insistant because we want you to see what we have seen. We dont want you in eternal torment the rest of eternity.

The thing is we as humans cant convince you to believe the truth you have to search for it yourself and the Spirit will lead you. All you have to do is turn off your worldly blinders and open yourself to God.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · January 2010

blended1 wrote:

Johnny Sitar wrote:

blended1 wrote:

Why is it that anyone who has a problem with god always start off with Christ ! if you want to pick apart the super natural why not start with Abraham or Mohamad ! Is It that you do not want to offend some other culture , What do any of you care who worships whom , isn't faith a personal matter Why is that when ever I talk to a nonbeliever They get so angry because I believe I do not care whether or not you believe why are athiest so insistant that they and only they know the truth ! prehaps the truth is more then any of us can comprehend or maybe you are just angry at god and want others to be also

I can only speak for myself, but I have no interest in "converting" you or anyone else to my way of thinking. I could care less if you believe in god or not. And this thread was started off by a believer. We are simply answering his topic. If you don't like it, take it up with eddie ledbetter.

I am not angry that you or anyone else are a believer. I get angry at the ignorance portrayed by those who believe; the condescending comments, the pity, all that shit. I have many believer friends that I have absolutely no problem with, it's because they don't try to jam it down my throat, and they respect my opinion/beliefs.

Why are christians so insistent that they and only they know the truth? Have you been reading any of this thread, my friend? Many of us non-believers admit we don't know the truth. Where do you get that WE are insistent that we know the truth? We simply want others to admit the same. Maybe read up before you comment next time.

And who is angry at god, exactly?

I will comment what I want when I want ! and in my experience non believers are virulent in shoving thier views down peoples throats how ever my question was why start with christ ? if you do not believe in a god then thats your perogative I think its just easier to pick apart christains then jews or moslems like I said wouldn't want to oftend and like I said human kind probably can not handle the truth

oh, don't get all hissy. yes, you can comment when you want, but if you are going to make some claim that has no basis in fact with regards to the previous postings, you are only making yourself look bad.

I answered your question about starting off with Christ. The christian who started this thread started with christ. that's the whole discussion. It has nothing to do with Buddha or Muhammed or Ala or whoever else. And for the most part, we're talking about god, any god, any type of religion, as far as I'm concerned. It just so happens that the one believer who is speaking back happens to be a christian.

I'm pretty sure if any of us were worried about offending anyone, we wouldn't be in this thread to begin with. And as an aside, you have some issues with political correctness? I think that's a whole other thread entirely.

God... Christ... The Bible

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