Just ignore it...you're an adult. Who cares what other people believe.
My ex was from a mormon family, they wouldn't except me because I was a catholic. I don't go to church, but have my own belief system. I don't broadcast it to people nor push on people. They tried that shit on me but I just ignored it. Likewise I've met some people who are atheist, who looked down on people who have any belief system, almost like they think they are smarter for not believe in God, kind of arrogent.
I just have a hard time believe people still drag this issue out....
you seem to be offering a lot of opinions for someone who doesn't want others offering their opinions
just go post somewhere else bro....
Its just mutual respect.....bro
This isn't about if God is real or not, its about pushing views on people. Politics are a matter of opinion, religion or no religion is a right, and needs to be respected.
Just ignore it...you're an adult. Who cares what other people believe.
My ex was from a mormon family, they wouldn't except me because I was a catholic. I don't go to church, but have my own belief system. I don't broadcast it to people nor push on people. They tried that shit on me but I just ignored it. Likewise I've met some people who are atheist, who looked down on people who have any belief system, almost like they think they are smarter for not believe in God, kind of arrogent.
I just have a hard time believe people still drag this issue out....
why ignore it? ELB posed a legitimate question and I/we wanted to address it and have a discussion. yes, it got heated at times, but it's a good discussion.
Maybe you should take your own advice and "just ignore it". "It" being this thread. No animosity, but seriously, dude, if you don't want to participate (and that's fine), then go elsewhere. Just like you said that no one needs someone telling them what to believe, we don't need others telling us what we should and should not be talking about. You dig?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Its hypocritical to attract people for having a religious view, its no different then an atheist being attacked for not believing in God. More specifically, its a hatred for Christianity, you never see these threads on other religions, which are no more hypocritical or controlling.
Its also pretty arrogant for some people to think they are smarter then most for not believing in a God. Faith isn't based on intelligence, its an emotional.
The only reason these threads get started is because people are afraid of authority, and in their eyes church is an authority out to control and brain wash them. Come on, this isn't the 1400's, the idea of the church or any church in America forcing there will on people is ridiculous, you people are adults. You have a choice...and no one here can make you believe in God or not.
Just respect people and let them believe or don't believe, why shit on someone?
...
On Christianity:
It is because Christianity is most likely the religion we encounter. And yes... I would still question the religion if this thread were titled: "Allah... Mohammed... The Koran: Why is it so Unbelievable?"
...
On authority:
And I'm not afraid of authority... and you are correct... the church IS authority and has been for almost 2,000 years. I just do not TRUST the authority. Why? because the Church is run by Man. Power hungry, corruptable Man. Now, if God or Jesus were running the church... yeah... no problem. They would probably answer my question with me in mind... not Them.
...
Finally... yes... I am a live and let live kind of guy. I don't care who chooses which religion... or who chooses none. If it works for them, great... peace be with them. It's the one-upsmanship of religions I reject... the pissing contest of who God loves or cares about more. Believe and let believe is what I go by... with the emphasis on 'Believe'.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Just ignore it...you're an adult. Who cares what other people believe.
My ex was from a mormon family, they wouldn't except me because I was a catholic. I don't go to church, but have my own belief system. I don't broadcast it to people nor push on people. They tried that shit on me but I just ignored it. Likewise I've met some people who are atheist, who looked down on people who have any belief system, almost like they think they are smarter for not believe in God, kind of arrogent.
I just have a hard time believe people still drag this issue out....
why ignore it? ELB posed a legitimate question and I/we wanted to address it and have a discussion. yes, it got heated at times, but it's a good discussion.
Maybe you should take your own advice and "just ignore it". "It" being this thread. No animosity, but seriously, dude, if you don't want to participate (and that's fine), then go elsewhere. Just like you said that no one needs someone telling them what to believe, we don't need others telling us what we should and should not be talking about. You dig?
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
certainly there is some truth to those reasons... although not really for me.
d. no one religion is 100% right and no one religion is 100% wrong.
e. religion appears to be a human invention.
f. christianity is cool but so damn dogmatic. It ain't for me, bro.
g. it is up to each individual to determine for themselves what they believe about god(s). Every religion can help me learn more about myself but I don't subscribe to any single one.
I think you could also add, "because god is expansive and religion is suppressive." Trying to explain with words the existence of a higher power is like cutting roast beef with a screwdriver.
I know what I believe (or rather disbelieve) is SO DAMN UNBELIEVABLE to most people... for many reasons. We operate in different reality tunnels and I can learn something from you but I have never followed any single ideology or dogma and never will. I need my intellectual freedom.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
I dont hold "a" as true. On the contrary I want to believe. I just refuse to ignore reason completely.
b and c are more to the point I think.
But the most important opposition you've gotten here is this:
d. There may not be a ultimate truth, but if there is, none of us can know that we know it. We only have our own version of the truth to go by.
and to me:
e. the OT god has nothing to do with the ultimate God. I refuse to view God as a jealous, vengeful, nit-picking old patriarch in the clouds that threaten hell if we dont believe in him.
(edit) The most important one:
f. Why must it be christianity if you want to believe in God? Why is that more believable than the competition?
Peace
Dan
Post edited by OutOfBreath on
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
d. no one religion is 100% right and no one religion is 100% wrong.
e. religion appears to be a human invention.
f. christianity is cool but so damn dogmatic. It ain't for me, bro.
g. it is up to each individual to determine for themselves what they believe about god(s). Every religion can help me learn more about myself but I don't subscribe to any single one.
...
h. Do not trust the church establishment, whom decided the final edit of the (New Testament) Bible
i. Believe there are many differing paths that lead us towards God.
j. God loves us... the people... not the religions we choose.
....
Had you been open to listening to us, instead of concentrating on telling us what we need to do, you probably would have gotten more than the three preconceived (and incorrect) answers you listed.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So my original question... "why is it so unbelievable" lets answer it real quick.
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
d. no one religion is 100% right and no one religion is 100% wrong.
e. religion appears to be a human invention.
f. christianity is cool but so damn dogmatic. It ain't for me, bro.
g. it is up to each individual to determine for themselves what they believe about god(s). Every religion can help me learn more about myself but I don't subscribe to any single one.
...
h. Do not trust the church establishment, whom decided the final edit of the (New Testament) Bible
i. Believe there are many differing paths that lead us towards God.
j. God loves us... the people... not the religions we choose.
....
Had you been open to listening to us, instead of concentrating on telling us what we need to do, you probably would have gotten more than the three preconceived (and incorrect) answers you listed.
I never intended to tell you what to do. I only tell you what the bible tells us to do as a creation. I get this is a dead end thread but i would rebut with this
1. there cant be some truth in every religion they all contradict each other so it is up to you to decide. by religion i include science as well because it requires faith just as much as any religion
2. religion appears to be a human invention but humans arent a human invention, neither are miracles
3. love your god with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself isnt that dogmatic to me.
4. jesus didnt like the church establishment either so you have something in common
5. they didnt edit the documents, they put them together in one book, they existed before the bible did, the dead sea scrolls were found which were hidden by a nomadic group who kept to themselves, they never bought into the church you say compiled the scriptures yet they had word for word what is in the OT
6. since God loves us as a people he told us what he expects of us by sending a piece of him to earth to perform miracles to be recorded for all time so you can know what your creator wants of us as a people. its in this subtle story that he offers free will to you to decide whether you want the gift he offers
there is plenty of evidence that points to the God Jesus describes as being the one true God. i'm not telling you to but saying that you should check it out without preconceived notions. its quite easy to see what is incorrect in this world if you just look.
I never intended to tell you what to do. I only tell you what the bible tells us to do as a creation. I get this is a dead end thread but i would rebut with this
1. there cant be some truth in every religion they all contradict each other so it is up to you to decide. by religion i include science as well because it requires faith just as much as any religion
2. religion appears to be a human invention but humans arent a human invention, neither are miracles
3. love your god with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself isnt that dogmatic to me.
4. jesus didnt like the church establishment either so you have something in common
5. they didnt edit the documents, they put them together in one book, they existed before the bible did, the dead sea scrolls were found which were hidden by a nomadic group who kept to themselves, they never bought into the church you say compiled the scriptures yet they had word for word what is in the OT
6. since God loves us as a people he told us what he expects of us by sending a piece of him to earth to perform miracles to be recorded for all time so you can know what your creator wants of us as a people. its in this subtle story that he offers free will to you to decide whether you want the gift he offers
there is plenty of evidence that points to the God Jesus describes as being the one true God. i'm not telling you to but saying that you should check it out without preconceived notions. its quite easy to see what is incorrect in this world if you just look.
You seem to be stuck in a Homer Simpson version of reality. Instead of beer you have Jesus.
We are all ignorant. The only difference is I'm consciously ignorant... you are unconsciously ignorant.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
we have been beating a dead fucking horse for 50 some pages now. This guy thinks that unless we believe what he believes, we haven't looked at things without preconceived notions/don't have open hearts/etc. His idea of what evidence is is much different than what ours is. When we can't even agree on the context/meaning of words used in said discussion, all sanity is lost.
You nor I will EVER get through to him. So let's just declare this discussion dead, shall we boys?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
One huge problem with the bible that seems to be overlooked by people who like to quote it and talk about it's simplicity is that it was written by a group of people originally AND it has been translated numerous times.
These two things alone make it a book that is less than simple because it has the modifications or re-wordings of every person who touched an edition or translation in it.
If we want to look at it as a document, it is not one that has been faithfully recorded word-for-word. It's old and it's been tampered with.
"If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted upon men, he would kill himself."
Alexandre Dumas
:thumbup:
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
You seem to be stuck in a Homer Simpson version of reality. Instead of beer you have Jesus.
We are all ignorant. The only difference is I'm consciously ignorant... you are unconsciously ignorant.
...
It's sort of like talking to the guys on the television, ain't it? No matter what you say... they just ain't listening.
...
That being said... I've said my peace. I'm out.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Since Einstein has been quoted a few times throughout this thread:
Einstein:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in a position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations"
-Taken from the book 'Einstein and Religion', by one of Einstein's friends, Max Jammer
Summerfest 7/8/95 Missoula 6/20/98 Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98 Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03 Alpine Valley 6/21/03 Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10 Alpine Valley x2 2011 Wrigley 2013 Milwaukee 14 Telluride 16
I do not understand the notion of things like "person x believes idea y, so that makes me right/wrong". Is there really a point to this?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I do not understand the notion of things like "person x believes idea y, so that makes me right/wrong". Is there really a point to this?
no, there isn't a point if that is where the discussion leads us.
I think most of us were simply saying that the only honest thing to say about the whole "god" thing is, "I don't know." Believe what you want, have faith... fine. I get that. Do your thing and don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. But don't tell me I'm going to hell because I don't worship Christ.
Maybe 'not believing' in god or no-god is a belief system in and of itself, but if so, it is a flexible one.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Since Einstein has been quoted a few times throughout this thread:
Einstein:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in a position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations"
-Taken from the book 'Einstein and Religion', by one of Einstein's friends, Max Jammer
hang on... what??? what is einstein saying here?? is he comparing the many books i have on my shelves and their authors, whom i know exist cause ive seen them, heard them speak and in some instances spoken with them in person, to a God whose existence cant even be substantiated but whose words supposedly comprise the bible??? whos is the author of the bible??? can someone tell me that???
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Since Einstein has been quoted a few times throughout this thread:
Einstein:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in a position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations"
-Taken from the book 'Einstein and Religion', by one of Einstein's friends, Max Jammer
hang on... what??? what is einstein saying here?? is he comparing the many books i have on my shelves and their authors, whom i know exist cause ive seen them, heard them speak and in some instances spoken with them in person, to a God whose existence cant even be substantiated but whose words supposedly comprise the bible??? whos is the author of the bible??? can someone tell me that???
no... the analogy is that we are like little ignorant children when it comes to these questions. There is no way for the rationalist to either label themselves as an atheist OR a pantheist (belief in any god(s)) because we are just beginning to understand the content of this "huge library."
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
@catefrances
Since you appear to be a fan of Darwin, have you read his autobiography?
Darwin:
"Reason tells me of the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capability of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having Intelligent Mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Thiest." -The Autobiography of Charles Darwin
From New Scientist magazine-"When Charles Darwin formulated his ideas on evolution, he had no idea of the complexity of the living cell."
Summerfest 7/8/95 Missoula 6/20/98 Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98 Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03 Alpine Valley 6/21/03 Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10 Alpine Valley x2 2011 Wrigley 2013 Milwaukee 14 Telluride 16
@catefrances
Since you appear to be a fan of Darwin, have you read his autobiography?
Darwin:
"Reason tells me of the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capability of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having Intelligent Mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Thiest." -The Autobiography of Charles Darwin
From New Scientist magazine-"When Charles Darwin formulated his ideas on evolution, he had no idea of the complexity of the living cell."
i wouldnt call myself a fan of darwin. his theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with my atheism. and i will never call myself a theist.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Why dont you go attack another belief ..........like Buddhism.......seems like people like to pick on the Christian faith for some reason.....maybe guilt? ..........I dont know .........you will know one day though if is true.......that last moment
Comments
Its just mutual respect.....bro
This isn't about if God is real or not, its about pushing views on people. Politics are a matter of opinion, religion or no religion is a right, and needs to be respected.
why ignore it? ELB posed a legitimate question and I/we wanted to address it and have a discussion. yes, it got heated at times, but it's a good discussion.
Maybe you should take your own advice and "just ignore it". "It" being this thread. No animosity, but seriously, dude, if you don't want to participate (and that's fine), then go elsewhere. Just like you said that no one needs someone telling them what to believe, we don't need others telling us what we should and should not be talking about. You dig?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
On Christianity:
It is because Christianity is most likely the religion we encounter. And yes... I would still question the religion if this thread were titled: "Allah... Mohammed... The Koran: Why is it so Unbelievable?"
...
On authority:
And I'm not afraid of authority... and you are correct... the church IS authority and has been for almost 2,000 years. I just do not TRUST the authority. Why? because the Church is run by Man. Power hungry, corruptable Man. Now, if God or Jesus were running the church... yeah... no problem. They would probably answer my question with me in mind... not Them.
...
Finally... yes... I am a live and let live kind of guy. I don't care who chooses which religion... or who chooses none. If it works for them, great... peace be with them. It's the one-upsmanship of religions I reject... the pissing contest of who God loves or cares about more. Believe and let believe is what I go by... with the emphasis on 'Believe'.
Hail, Hail!!!
I dig
1. People don’t find it believable because they
a. don’t want to believe
b. haven’t been presented enough evidence to believe
c. don’t believe the evidence is verifiable enough to believe
What else?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
certainly there is some truth to those reasons... although not really for me.
d. no one religion is 100% right and no one religion is 100% wrong.
e. religion appears to be a human invention.
f. christianity is cool but so damn dogmatic. It ain't for me, bro.
g. it is up to each individual to determine for themselves what they believe about god(s). Every religion can help me learn more about myself but I don't subscribe to any single one.
I think you could also add, "because god is expansive and religion is suppressive." Trying to explain with words the existence of a higher power is like cutting roast beef with a screwdriver.
I know what I believe (or rather disbelieve) is SO DAMN UNBELIEVABLE to most people... for many reasons. We operate in different reality tunnels and I can learn something from you but I have never followed any single ideology or dogma and never will. I need my intellectual freedom.
b and c are more to the point I think.
But the most important opposition you've gotten here is this:
d. There may not be a ultimate truth, but if there is, none of us can know that we know it. We only have our own version of the truth to go by.
and to me:
e. the OT god has nothing to do with the ultimate God. I refuse to view God as a jealous, vengeful, nit-picking old patriarch in the clouds that threaten hell if we dont believe in him.
(edit) The most important one:
f. Why must it be christianity if you want to believe in God? Why is that more believable than the competition?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
h. Do not trust the church establishment, whom decided the final edit of the (New Testament) Bible
i. Believe there are many differing paths that lead us towards God.
j. God loves us... the people... not the religions we choose.
....
Had you been open to listening to us, instead of concentrating on telling us what we need to do, you probably would have gotten more than the three preconceived (and incorrect) answers you listed.
Hail, Hail!!!
I never intended to tell you what to do. I only tell you what the bible tells us to do as a creation. I get this is a dead end thread but i would rebut with this
1. there cant be some truth in every religion they all contradict each other so it is up to you to decide. by religion i include science as well because it requires faith just as much as any religion
2. religion appears to be a human invention but humans arent a human invention, neither are miracles
3. love your god with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself isnt that dogmatic to me.
4. jesus didnt like the church establishment either so you have something in common
5. they didnt edit the documents, they put them together in one book, they existed before the bible did, the dead sea scrolls were found which were hidden by a nomadic group who kept to themselves, they never bought into the church you say compiled the scriptures yet they had word for word what is in the OT
6. since God loves us as a people he told us what he expects of us by sending a piece of him to earth to perform miracles to be recorded for all time so you can know what your creator wants of us as a people. its in this subtle story that he offers free will to you to decide whether you want the gift he offers
there is plenty of evidence that points to the God Jesus describes as being the one true God. i'm not telling you to but saying that you should check it out without preconceived notions. its quite easy to see what is incorrect in this world if you just look.
You seem to be stuck in a Homer Simpson version of reality. Instead of beer you have Jesus.
We are all ignorant. The only difference is I'm consciously ignorant... you are unconsciously ignorant.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
You nor I will EVER get through to him. So let's just declare this discussion dead, shall we boys?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcY75LIkRw
I don't know about the rest of the universe, but I believe a supreme being created "Caddyshack" for sure.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
These two things alone make it a book that is less than simple because it has the modifications or re-wordings of every person who touched an edition or translation in it.
If we want to look at it as a document, it is not one that has been faithfully recorded word-for-word. It's old and it's been tampered with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPHeiFH2ZFU
HELL YES!!!! start dancing about 30 seconds in
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
OMG Gern that's fugged up! But hey, if the lord sayeth so, then so shall doeth.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Alexandre Dumas
:thumbup:
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
It's sort of like talking to the guys on the television, ain't it? No matter what you say... they just ain't listening.
...
That being said... I've said my peace. I'm out.
Hail, Hail!!!
Einstein:
"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in a position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations"
-Taken from the book 'Einstein and Religion', by one of Einstein's friends, Max Jammer
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
no, there isn't a point if that is where the discussion leads us.
I think most of us were simply saying that the only honest thing to say about the whole "god" thing is, "I don't know." Believe what you want, have faith... fine. I get that. Do your thing and don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. But don't tell me I'm going to hell because I don't worship Christ.
Maybe 'not believing' in god or no-god is a belief system in and of itself, but if so, it is a flexible one.
of course it doesn't make sense. if it did, we would have world peace!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
hang on... what??? what is einstein saying here?? is he comparing the many books i have on my shelves and their authors, whom i know exist cause ive seen them, heard them speak and in some instances spoken with them in person, to a God whose existence cant even be substantiated but whose words supposedly comprise the bible??? whos is the author of the bible??? can someone tell me that???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no... the analogy is that we are like little ignorant children when it comes to these questions. There is no way for the rationalist to either label themselves as an atheist OR a pantheist (belief in any god(s)) because we are just beginning to understand the content of this "huge library."
Since you appear to be a fan of Darwin, have you read his autobiography?
Darwin:
"Reason tells me of the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capability of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having Intelligent Mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Thiest." -The Autobiography of Charles Darwin
From New Scientist magazine-"When Charles Darwin formulated his ideas on evolution, he had no idea of the complexity of the living cell."
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
i wouldnt call myself a fan of darwin. his theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with my atheism. and i will never call myself a theist.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say