***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***
Comments
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Cliffy6745 wrote:Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.0 -
jamminpearls wrote:1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on0 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
1. They would never afford both of them past this year. That is impossible, even for the Yankees. That is a fact.
2. Prospects are prospects, you never know. They Yankees traded a player they hope to be Granderson for Granderson. I will trade an outfield prospect for a pitcher any day though. It is more about the situation with this trade.
3. As The Jeagler has said many times, Cole is the key to the Phillies, could be a good thing could be an awful thing. I personally think he is a bitch and his wife if is a retard but whatever. Hope that does not offend anyone.
4. Happ was rated as a #3 starter. Scouts are right 99% of the time. They know what they are looking at.
My problem with this trade is that the Phillies gave up 7 of their top 10 prospects and got back a possible closer and decent outfielder for Halladay when maybe they could have signed Lee to an extension and only given up a few prospects.
I know you are a huge fan of Amaro, but is it possible he might have been a bit too aggressive on this one?0 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:
My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.
Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.
Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.
Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.
Well Lee should have been in the playoffs in 2007 if he didn't go 2-8 with a 6.40 era against the AL. He did go 3-0 with 3.17 era in interleague play and got passed over by Paul Byrd and Jake Westbrook. If he pitched anything like he did the 2 years before or after Cleveland probably wins the World Series and he and C.C. are still with the tribe. He was with Cleveland on the bench though during their playoff run, but I digress.
I would love if both Lee and Halladay were here, but it wasn't meant to be. Plus if that 140 mil number is a hard number for the Phils and that's a really high number when you consider only 3 teams have ever had payroll that high (Yankees every year since 2003, Boston in 2007 and the Mets last year) the Phils have a lot of tough decisions because the only payroll coming off next year is Blanton and Moyer and the Phils will need 2 starting pitchers to replace them and have to deal with Werth being a free agent, whether or not to pick up J Roll's option and Victorino's future.
They already have 105 million committed for 2011 not counting Werth, Victorino and Rollins and 2 starting pitchers unless Kendrick comes around and then you only need one.- Busted down the pretext
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/130 -
Wow, I can't believe so many of you are lost on this..anyway, suck my sack..'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'0 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
I definitely think it is important for the Phillies to try and resign him but I also think an AL team will sign him for 6 years or so. I really dont think the Phillies have a shot a retaining him and I dont think they should if it gets over 4 years like you say. Can you imagine his bat as a DH? It would be fucking brutal.0 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:jamminpearls wrote:1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
Happ had a very fluky season. I remember reading something this year on ESPN or a blog about how he was really lucky with men on base and had an incredible batting average against in those situations on balls put into play and that it will even out over time. That said I like him, but his trade value never will be higher than it was this year.
Also, Drabek just turned 22 last week.- Busted down the pretext
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/130 -
Cliffy6745 wrote:Jearlpam0925 wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:Dude, I think you are insane if you think the Phillies are going to dish out the money for Howard. While his defense was much better this year, he is going to take way to many years and dollars for any NL team to afford him. I really don't think it makes sense for anyone in the NL to sign him to a 6 or 7 year deal with the dollars higher than Tex which you know he is going to ask for.
It all depends on what Lee was willing to sign an extension for. If they could have signed him for a little more and maybe a year longer than Halladay and kept Drabek, I seen no reason to do that. No matter what, it sounds like there should have been more dialouge between Amaro and Lee's agent than there was. I do think the Phillies jumped the gun on this trade.
I'm not saying a long term extension, I could see the Phils offering him 4years and taking him through about the age of 36 for about 20-22 mil per year. I could see that happening. Extending his contract is crucial for this team because I don't see anyone else coming along that will be putting up 35-40 HR's and at least 120 RBI's in the clean up spot 3 years from now.
I definitely think it is important for the Phillies to try and resign him but I also think an AL team will sign him for 6 years or so. I really dont think the Phillies have a shot a retaining him and I dont think they should if it gets over 4 years like you say. Can you imagine his bat as a DH? It would be fucking brutal.
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.- Busted down the pretext
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/130 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:jamminpearls wrote:1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?
Never did i say have a rotation with halladay and lee. I said if we DIDNT do the Halladay trade and instead resigned lee to a 3-5 yr deal at lets say 18million a year. When did i say anything bad about hamels??? I believe i said either he will either be cole from last year and not be worth resigning or will be cole from 2yrs ago and be worth resigning. I think its funny how u say i bad mouthed hamels but u pretty much said happ is a bum who got lucky. Drabek or Aumont i'd say Drabek has a much higher ceiling. And he has a last name that already tells u he's a gamer.Go Birds!!!!0 -
From everything I have read Happ is a number 3 at best. I trust scouts these days, they dont usually fuck up. Small sample size and impressive stuff, hitters will catch up.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.0 -
Cliffy6745 wrote:Jearlpam0925 wrote:1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
1. They would never afford both of them past this year. That is impossible, even for the Yankees. That is a fact.
2. Prospects are prospects, you never know. They Yankees traded a player they hope to be Granderson for Granderson. I will trade an outfield prospect for a pitcher any day though. It is more about the situation with this trade.
3. As The Jeagler has said many times, Cole is the key to the Phillies, could be a good thing could be an awful thing. I personally think he is a bitch and his wife if is a retard but whatever. Hope that does not offend anyone.
4. Happ was rated as a #3 starter. Scouts are right 99% of the time. They know what they are looking at.
My problem with this trade is that the Phillies gave up 7 of their top 10 prospects and got back a possible closer and decent outfielder for Halladay when maybe they could have signed Lee to an extension and only given up a few prospects.
I know you are a huge fan of Amaro, but is it possible he might have been a bit too aggressive on this one?
That's the thing - I like the aggressiveness. If you want my entire outlook on this situation it is as followed....
It's not like they gave up 7 guys just for Halladay. The four guys that went to Cleveland for Lee were not much. So in that sense they gave up squadoosh for a World Series run rental. Along with a solid 4th outfielder.
We can debate for eternity about the situation as to the contract talks with Lee, but nothing was ever known as if Lee was going to be able to be signed long term.
Acquiring Halladay last July was worth way too much compared to what they gave up for the Lee Run.
Now, say the Phils keep Lee and Doc for one run this year. Meaning they give up who they gave up to Toronto without any known quantities to replenish the farm system(this is the same organization that was just named organization of the year). Now, you go through the year without the GUARANTEE of winning ANYTHING in 2010. Now it's the end of 2010, you've already extended doc prior to the season and now cannot afford Lee so you offer him arbitration and receive the two compensatory picks in the draft. Now, these two draft pick you have NO IDEA who they may be, how they turn out, etc. etc. And now you're left with no suitable prospects in your farm system, only draft picks. And draft picks take on average 4/5 years to fully develop. THIS is the reason I don't have a problem with this - you're still the favorite in the NL and are still keeping eyes open to 3 years down the road. And I don't wanna hear the BS about how it's not about competing with the NL but it's with competing with the Red Sox or Yanks. NOTHING is guaranteed. Getting to the World Series is NEVER guaranteed no matter who you've got - just ask the 200+ million dollar Yankees that didn't win the World Series in '01 through '08. All I know is Doc can throw on 3 days rest and can pitch games 1, 4, and 7. And my team is a powerhouse for years to come. THIS is why I'm fine with these moves, and people just got too caught up in thinking we could have both these guys that they got crazy.
I'm sure there's grammatical errors all over this...0 -
And if Lee's your #1 and Hamels is your #2 then Happ would your #3 and i'd be just fine with that. And if drabek is half as good as they say he could be your #3 or #4.Cliffy6745 wrote:From everything I have read Happ is a number 3 at best. I trust scouts these days, they dont usually fuck up. Small sample size and impressive stuff, hitters will catch up.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.Go Birds!!!!0 -
jamminpearls wrote:Jearlpam0925 wrote:jamminpearls wrote:1st Happ is very good,secondly if u say he's a 3 or a 4 then that perfect for are rotation Lee,hamels,happ or drabek at 3 or 4 and someone at 5. so u anwsered the question as u were asking it.
Happ is not that good. He'll be a servicable pitcher, but he really isn't as good as his ERA leads you to believe. I'm telling you. He fell lucky to a lot of stats that have to do with pretty much having fielders in the right spots at the right times - aka lots of line drives caught instead of making the gaps. Also, who the fuck KNOWS what Drabek will be??? Remember, he already had Tommy John and he just turned 21.
You're contradicting yourself about rolling out a rotation of Doc, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Drabek. And now trying to say forget all about Doc and just go with Lee. So, again I ask you, how do you afford Doc and Lee long term at the top of this rotation? THAT is the argument.
Oh, and that piece of shit Hamels right? Horrible pitcher right?
Never did i say have a rotation with halladay and lee. I said if we DIDNT do the Halladay trade and instead resigned lee to a 3-5 yr deal at lets say 18million a year.
That's the problem right there with Lee. Lee's agent was interviewed during the World Series by the Little Rock newspaper about Lee and Burnett - his two biggest clients. And when the question came to Lee's contract, his agent said Lee was worth between 20-25 million a year for a long term deal and he wants to explore the marketplace to get the best deal for his client. The Phils were never going to go more than 3 years so they didn't want to take the risk and got Halladay instead.- Busted down the pretext
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/130 -
Cliffy6745 wrote:From everything I have read Happ is a number 3 at best. I trust scouts these days, they dont usually fuck up. Small sample size and impressive stuff, hitters will catch up.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.
The Colts already won a long time ago, thus still giving life to the Jets....just to quickly recap, the Mets are awesome and the Phillies suck cock
..night.. 'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'0 -
Solat13 wrote:
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.
The "if" Boston gets A Gon is a big "if", Ellsbury is not as good a fit as everyone thinks as he is eligible for abritration next year.
You are out of your god damn mind if you think Howard has too much pride to DH, Howard is about the money my friend. You cannot convince me otherwise.0 -
Drabek did turn 22, but I meant his Tommy John was before he was 21.0
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Cliffy6745 wrote:Solat13 wrote:
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.
The "if" Boston gets A Gon is a big "if", Ellsbury is not as good a fit as everyone thinks as he is eligible for abritration next year.
You are out of your god damn mind if you think Howard has too much pride to DH, Howard is about the money my friend. You cannot convince me otherwise.
Not too many guys at age 32 sign on to be a DH. Besides by that point, the Yankees will have Jeter as their DH.- Busted down the pretext
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/130 -
The Champ wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:From everything I have read Happ is a number 3 at best. I trust scouts these days, they dont usually fuck up. Small sample size and impressive stuff, hitters will catch up.
Is this not why baseball is the greatest sport? The Colts are undefeated and playing tonight and we are debating baseball. I fucking love this game.
The Colts already won a long time ago, thus still giving life to the Jets....just to quickly recap, the Mets are awesome and the Phillies suck cock ..night..
A lil nightly reading for ya, Champ....
http://www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2009/12/17/ ... heir-place
0 -
Jearlpam0925 wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:Jearlpam0925 wrote:1. You tell me how they afford both those contracts for both those pitchers over the long term?
2. How do you know Brown and Talyor will become the players everyone sucking their balls think they'll become?
3. Talk about being unappreciative. Cole Hamels is only 25 - going on 26 - fucking years old and has been absolutely stellar. I don't know if you remember this, but he helped win a world fucking championship. Yes, he had a very average year last year, but that's worth giving up on when he has had 3 solid years and one mediocre one??? That's just fucking preposterous.
4. Happ's not that good. He's a solid #4 - maybe #3 at best.
1. They would never afford both of them past this year. That is impossible, even for the Yankees. That is a fact.
2. Prospects are prospects, you never know. They Yankees traded a player they hope to be Granderson for Granderson. I will trade an outfield prospect for a pitcher any day though. It is more about the situation with this trade.
3. As The Jeagler has said many times, Cole is the key to the Phillies, could be a good thing could be an awful thing. I personally think he is a bitch and his wife if is a retard but whatever. Hope that does not offend anyone.
4. Happ was rated as a #3 starter. Scouts are right 99% of the time. They know what they are looking at.
My problem with this trade is that the Phillies gave up 7 of their top 10 prospects and got back a possible closer and decent outfielder for Halladay when maybe they could have signed Lee to an extension and only given up a few prospects.
I know you are a huge fan of Amaro, but is it possible he might have been a bit too aggressive on this one?
That's the thing - I like the aggressiveness. If you want my entire outlook on this situation it is as followed....
It's not like they gave up 7 guys just for Halladay. The four guys that went to Cleveland for Lee were not much. So in that sense they gave up squadoosh for a World Series run rental. Along with a solid 4th outfielder.
We can debate for eternity about the situation as to the contract talks with Lee, but nothing was ever known as if Lee was going to be able to be signed long term.
Acquiring Halladay last July was worth way too much compared to what they gave up for the Lee Run.
Now, say the Phils keep Lee and Doc for one run this year. Meaning they give up who they gave up to Toronto without any known quantities to replenish the farm system(this is the same organization that was just named organization of the year). Now, you go through the year without the GUARANTEE of winning ANYTHING in 2010. Now it's the end of 2010, you've already extended doc prior to the season and now cannot afford Lee so you offer him arbitration and receive the two compensatory picks in the draft. Now, these two draft pick you have NO IDEA who they may be, how they turn out, etc. etc. And now you're left with no suitable prospects in your farm system, only draft picks. And draft picks take on average 4/5 years to fully develop. THIS is the reason I don't have a problem with this - you're still the favorite in the NL and are still keeping eyes open to 3 years down the road. And I don't wanna hear the BS about how it's not about competing with the NL but it's with competing with the Red Sox or Yanks. NOTHING is guaranteed. Getting to the World Series is NEVER guaranteed no matter who you've got - just ask the 200+ million dollar Yankees that didn't win the World Series in '01 through '08. All I know is Doc can throw on 3 days rest and can pitch games 1, 4, and 7. And my team is a powerhouse for years to come. THIS is why I'm fine with these moves, and people just got too caught up in thinking we could have both these guys that they got crazy.
I'm sure there's grammatical errors all over this...
Listen, I agree that having both of them was a pipe dream. I just think Amaro should have tried harder to extend Lee before going all out for Halladay. There was plently of time left in the offseason and really no other suitors for Toronto, at least you know the Jays would have gone back to Philly before they made any other trade. My point is, Amaro should have made a much better attempt at extending Lee without giving up what he did for Doc. In my opinion, 5 years of Lee at around $20 mil= 4 years for Doc at $20 mil without losing Drabek and Taylor. Worth a try right? Dollars were never discussed and Lee said today he wanted to finish his career in Philly.0 -
Solat13 wrote:Cliffy6745 wrote:Solat13 wrote:
If the Red Sox get A Gon which they're trying to do and the Yanks have Tex, the two biggest suitors for Howard have dried up unless he wants to be a DH and I think he has too much pride to do that early in his career so the Phils might have a better shot at extending him than people think.
The "if" Boston gets A Gon is a big "if", Ellsbury is not as good a fit as everyone thinks as he is eligible for abritration next year.
You are out of your god damn mind if you think Howard has too much pride to DH, Howard is about the money my friend. You cannot convince me otherwise.
Not too many guys at age 32 sign on to be a DH. Besides by that point, the Yankees will have Jeter as their DH.
Ortiz is gone, Youklis at 3rd, A Gon at 1st, Vmart gone (not a catcher long term) plently of room for howard.0
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