This is insane the bottom line in sports is wins and loses correct. And the players with the best numbers get paid the most correct. I could give a shit about saberwhatever or all these other insane new things. Gotta love j happ killn it last year but because of some new thing sayn his balls get hit hard or right to people last that he should have a bad year this year. INSANE. If my eyes tell me the players good that's all I need to know. Howard is by far better then any other 1st basemen besides pujulos and that's just a FACT. And if you disagree your just wrong.
wow. you should be working as a MLB scout somewhere. all you'd need to do is watch the games and tell people who's good. when they argue or bring up stats, you can just tell them that they don't know what they're talking about. you'd need some help with grammar though.
First off I'm on my blackberry so its hard to type as is. Second the stats tell me that he's the best in two major catorgies. Hrs, rbis he's NUMBER 1 are they important STATS to u???? Or is batting avg against a lh pitcher more important?
no, RBI are not important stats. read the previous few pages
This is all crazy talk. The Howard contract is horrendous. The only thing that got me giddy about it is the commitment from the organization to its proven players. But I'm taking Tex, Poop Holes, Fielder, A Gone, Miggy, and possibly Morneau over Howard any day. Howard is a product of this lineup for the most part. Put Howard on Cincy, Pitt, KC, or any other garbage team and no pitcher pitches to him, he doesn't end up with more than 35 homers, and continues to strikeout or hit a home run with even less people on base due to there no being three all stars hitting in front of you. Love Howard, but this is all crazy talk.
Another spot on post from someone who knows his baseball.
yeah, jearlpam always brings good shit to the table
So for obp howrds 5th and for slugging and ops he's 2nd.then u add the fact that he's number 1 in hrs and rbi's.
This is being greatly skewed by his MVP season which was 4 years ago. I tend to look at the past 3 seasons. That looks like this:
.266 .363 .565 .928
this is the correct way to analyze a player...you look at career trends, not career averages.
howard peaked during his MVP season...they are overpaying for diminishing returns going forward. the contract sucks balls
diminishing returns of averaging 46.6 home runs and 141 rbi's the past 3 seasons. sorry I'll take those diminshing returns over anyone not named Pujols.
nope. you missed the sarcasm and i thought i layed it on pretty thick. he's replacing a guy who has made a career at swinging at the first pitch so it's only fitting he has bad at bats too. see where i'm going there?...wait for it...ah yes, there ya go![/quote][/quote][/quote]
diminishing returns of averaging 46.6 home runs and 141 rbi's the past 3 seasons. sorry I'll take those diminshing returns over anyone not named Pujols.
stop look at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's
Ryan Howard:
4 full major league seasons - averages of 49.6 home runs and 143 RBIs
last 3 full major league seasons - averages of 46.6 home runs and 141 RBIs
Ryan Howard:
4 full major league seasons - averages of 49.6 home runs and 143 RBIs
last 3 full major league seasons - averages of 46.6 home runs and 141 RBIs
and as I mentioned before, 3 division titles, 2 world series appearances, 1 world series title and possibly on the verge of being the greatest 3 year post-season run by a National League team in over 60 years.
the man is paid to hit home runs and drive in runs and does it at a prodigious rate for a team on a once in a lifetime era of baseball in Philly and possible all of the national league for a 70 year period. NUFF SAID.
This says nothing that has not already been stated. Yes, the entire world knows, Ryan Howard is a very good player on an excellent team. This cannot possibly be an argument for why he is better than another player or worth the contract he got.
Isn't winning important along with numbers? I mean the most productive offensive player on a team that is on the verge of the greatest 70 year post-season run for a National League team surely has to hold more weight than a bunch of players with good stats who have yet to win more than one playoff series (Gonzalez, Fielder,etc.) doesn't it? Surely you can't argue winning and his numbers.
when you talk about most productive offensive player on the phils you refer to chase utley
Isn't winning important along with numbers? I mean the most productive offensive player on a team that is on the verge of the greatest 70 year post-season run for a National League team surely has to hold more weight than a bunch of players with good stats who have yet to win more than one playoff series (Gonzalez, Fielder,etc.) doesn't it? Surely you can't argue winning and his numbers.[/quote]
100% but the Phillies have an excellent team. You put any of those other players on the Phillies and chances are they would have had the same success, if not more.
Edit: I would take Utley over Howard offensivly any day as well, especially considering the position they play.[/quote][/quote]
you are still not accounting for howard putting the entire team on his shoulders down the stretch each of the last 3 seasons. he has done this at times when the rest of the team were in slumps or not at their best. you cannot accurately predict that any of those other guys would have stepped up in the same way at such crucial moments in a season...this is where you have to look at intangibles not stats.[/quote]
the team wouldn't have needed him to do this in september of 2008 if he wasn't so fucking awful for the first 4 months of the season. check out his stats from that year...the dude SUCKED from April - July...everyone remembers his great september (which I give him credit for)...but if howard was even average for the first 4 months of the season the phils win the division going away.
so please stop with the 'he carries them in sept' crap
i, and everyone else here, am well aware of his early season struggles that year. i am also aware that he was WHITE HOT down the stretch when we needed him.
so, no, i won't stop with the "he carries them in sept crap" cuz he does it every year...
you can pick out stats to knock him but this is one thing you certainly cannot knock him for. come on dude.
i, and everyone else here, am well aware of his early season struggles that year. i am also aware that he was WHITE HOT down the stretch when we needed him.
so, no, i won't stop with the "he carries them in sept crap" cuz he does it every year...
you can pick out stats to knock him but this is one thing you certainly cannot knock him for. come on dude.
ah, serenity now. serenity now.
I'm exhausted. it wasn't 'early struggles', it was being horrendous for almost an entire season.
Hopefully kendrick can keep the cards under 10 tonight
i, and everyone else here, am well aware of his early season struggles that year. i am also aware that he was WHITE HOT down the stretch when we needed him.
so, no, i won't stop with the "he carries them in sept crap" cuz he does it every year...
you can pick out stats to knock him but this is one thing you certainly cannot knock him for. come on dude.
ah, serenity now. serenity now.
I'm exhausted. it wasn't 'early struggles', it was being horrendous for almost an entire season.
Hopefully kendrick can keep the cards under 10 tonight
admit: you hate ryan howard almost as you hate donovan mcnabb
only kidding dude...only kidding. kind of.
i, and everyone else here, am well aware of his early season struggles that year. i am also aware that he was WHITE HOT down the stretch when we needed him.
so, no, i won't stop with the "he carries them in sept crap" cuz he does it every year...
you can pick out stats to knock him but this is one thing you certainly cannot knock him for. come on dude.
ah, serenity now. serenity now.
I'm exhausted. it wasn't 'early struggles', it was being horrendous for almost an entire season.
Hopefully kendrick can keep the cards under 10 tonight
admit: you hate ryan howard almost as you hate donovan mcnabb
only kidding dude...only kidding. kind of.
howard isn't my favorite, just like mcnabb wasn't my favorite. I root for whoever is wearing the uniforms though (except for bobby abreu...I hated that mf'er like no other)
it's cool...never have to apologize to me for busting my balls...I love that shit
I am the guy in the video of the baby throwing the ball back and as it turns out I cant stand the Eagles but am a die hard Phillies fan and saw them win the World Series in 1980 as well as 2008. With that being said, do you know how many babies there are at a Phillies game every night (ALOT younger than my 5 month old daughter), during a 95 degree day in July, in the rain and even at a Game #3 of the World Series last year in the cold and rain until 1am. I took my daughter to her first game on a beautiful night in April (and would not have taken her if the weather was bad) and RANDOMLY had a ball hit to me, I didn't plan it and I sure didn't think about getting on TV or the internet or anything else, it was a harmless fun moment shared between me and my little girl. I do plan on showing my daughter that video when she gets older and letting her know she had a great time at her first game. Thinking back, I wish I had gone to the bathroom at the end of the 4th inning like I planned.
I am the guy in the video of the baby throwing the ball back and as it turns out I cant stand the Eagles but am a die hard Phillies fan and saw them win the World Series in 1980 as well as 2008. With that being said, do you know how many babies there are at a Phillies game every night (ALOT younger than my 5 month old daughter), during a 95 degree day in July, in the rain and even at a Game #3 of the World Series last year in the cold and rain until 1am. I took my daughter to her first game on a beautiful night in April (and would not have taken her if the weather was bad) and RANDOMLY had a ball hit to me, I didn't plan it and I sure didn't think about getting on TV or the internet or anything else, it was a harmless fun moment shared between me and my little girl. I do plan on showing my daughter that video when she gets older and letting her know she had a great time at her first game. Thinking back, I wish I had gone to the bathroom at the end of the 4th inning like I planned.
:thumbup:
nice story.
Glad they are back to their winning ways. Pitching has been great with Kendrick and Hammels. Tomorrow it's Halladays turn.
I'm looking forward to the Halladay vs Holliday match-up
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
diminishing returns of averaging 46.6 home runs and 141 rbi's the past 3 seasons. sorry I'll take those diminshing returns over anyone not named Pujols.
stop look at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's
your own twisted logic proves Ryan Howard's value - follow your own logic here dude.
1) RBIs don't count because they are dependent upon your teammates
2) you can't win a baseball game without scoring runs
3) the only way to score runs in a baseball game not dependent up your teammates is to hit HOME RUNS
4) Conclusion: the most important/best offensive players are the players that hit the most home runs
5) in the past 4 years in the top in home runs is (or top 2 or 3 didn't look it up) ...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it......RYAN HOWARD!!!!!!!
ding ding ding we have a winner folks. game set match. checkmate. here endeth the lesson!
got to love guys who use an argument that disproves their own opinions.
diminishing returns of averaging 46.6 home runs and 141 rbi's the past 3 seasons. sorry I'll take those diminshing returns over anyone not named Pujols.
stop look at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's
your own twisted logic proves Ryan Howard's value - follow your own logic here dude.
1) RBIs don't count because they are dependent upon your teammates
2) you can't win a baseball game without scoring runs
3) the only way to score runs in a baseball game not dependent up your teammates is to hit HOME RUNS
4) Conclusion: the most important/best offensive players are the players that hit the most home runs
5) in the past 4 years in the top in home runs is (or top 2 or 3 didn't look it up) ...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it......RYAN HOWARD!!!!!!!
ding ding ding we have a winner folks. game set match. checkmate. here endeth the lesson!
got to love guys who use an argument that disproves their own opinions.
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
DUDE CAN YOU READ? I said by YOUR LOGIC of RBIs dont' matter you've disproven your own damn theory about Howard. jeez you make your own argument for 2 pages and can't even follow it.
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
DUDE CAN YOU READ? I said by YOUR LOGIC of RBIs dont' matter you've disproven your own damn theory about Howard. jeez you make your own argument for 2 pages and can't even follow it.
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
DUDE CAN YOU READ? I said by YOUR LOGIC of RBIs dont' matter you've disproven your own damn theory about Howard. jeez you make your own argument for 2 pages and can't even follow it.
I don't understand what you are getting at. You really cant try to tell me that by me saying RBI's are not the most important factor, I am somehow saying home runs are the most important factor. Come on dude. Go talk to the Fixer or Jearlpam. They know their baseball. I give up.
Take a look at things like the triple slash stats and OPS along with RBI's and look at trends not overall.
I am done
Edit: According to you, Ryan Howard is better than Ted Williams. Ted William only hit 40 HR's once and had 140 RBI's twice. Answer my question, is Ryan Howard better than Ted Williams?
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
DUDE CAN YOU READ? I said by YOUR LOGIC of RBIs dont' matter you've disproven your own damn theory about Howard. jeez you make your own argument for 2 pages and can't even follow it.
I don't understand what you are getting at. You really cant try to tell me that by me saying RBI's are not the most important factor, I am somehow saying home runs are the most important factor. Come on dude. Go talk to the Fixer or Jearlpam. They know their baseball. I give up.
Take a look at things like the triple slash stats and OPS along with RBI's and look at trends not overall.
I am done
Edit: According to you, Ryan Howard is better than Ted Williams. Ted William only hit 40 HR's once and had 140 RBI's twice. Answer my question, is Ryan Howard better than Ted Williams?
never saw Ted Williams play so can't say for sure. who knows by the time Howard is done he just may be. Fastest ever to 200 home runs and at this rate will be well over 500 for his career. And I never said Ryan Howard was the greatest player of all time. I am just arguining against those who say he is not great and skills are diminishing. To discredit what Howard does is just wrong. I think Ryan Howard along with Chase Utley are both in the top 20 offensive players in the game today and at least in the short term (you can argue the long term ramifications but my theory on that is on the previous page or so as well) is well worth the $25 million he will be getting paid. that's is all I am trying to say. I am not the one trying to discredit Howard by spewing ridiculous theories on what stats are relevant or not. Like the Jaegler I don't need specific stats to tell me who the best players in the game are. Let's all just enjoy the greatest team/era in Philly sports with Howard, Utley etc. and not go down the path with these guys like Eagles fans/media do and run our superstars out the door for their perceived slights regardless of how damn good they are.
never saw Ted Williams play so can't say for sure. who knows by the time Howard is done he just may be. Fastest ever to 200 home runs and at this rate will be well over 500 for his career. And I never said Ryan Howard was the greatest player of all time. I am just arguining against those who say he is not great and skills are diminishing. To discredit what Howard does is just wrong. I think Ryan Howard along with Chase Utley are both in the top 20 offensive players in the game today and at least in the short term (you can argue the long term ramifications but my theory on that is on the previous page or so as well) is well worth the $25 million he will be getting paid. that's is all I am trying to say. I am not the one trying to discredit Howard by spewing ridiculous theories on what stats are relevant or not. Like the Jaegler I don't need specific stats to tell me who the best players in the game are. Let's all just enjoy the greatest team/era in Philly sports with Howard, Utley etc. and not go down the path with these guys like Eagles fans/media do and run our superstars out the door for their perceived slights regardless of how damn good they are.
The is a lot more reasonable than anything you have said so far (aside from the second sentence, take a look at his stats, stupid good). Door on this conversation is closed.
PHILADELPHIA -- Robin Roberts, the Hall of Fame pitcher who led the Philadelphia Phillies to the 1950 National League pennant as part of the famed "Whiz Kids," has died. He was 83.
Roberts died Thursday morning at his Temple Terrace, Fla., home of natural causes, the Phillies announced, citing Roberts' son Jim.
The right-hander was the most productive pitcher in the National League in the first half of the 1950s, topping the league in wins from 1952 to 1955, innings pitched from '51 to '55 and complete games from '52 to '56.
He won 286 games and put together six consecutive 20-win seasons. Roberts had 45 career shutouts, 2,357 strikeouts and a lifetime ERA of 3.41. He pitched 305 complete games, but also holds the dubious distinction of giving up more home runs than any other Major League pitcher.
"Workhorse is a weak description," Philadelphia Daily News writer Stan Hochman wrote about Roberts in 2003. "He was a mule, stubborn, cantankerous and willing to toil from sunup to sundown."
Phillies fans will remember Roberts as the leading pitcher on the 1950 squad that won the franchise's first pennant in 35 years. Roberts put together a 20-11 season with a 3.02 ERA and five shutouts.
The team, with several 25-and-younger stars such as Roberts, Richie Ashburn and Del Ennis, was dubbed the "Whiz Kids." It marked the end a three-decade span in which the Phillies were mostly awful.
The Phillies held a 7� game lead with 11 games to go, but struggled to hang on as injuries -- especially to the pitching staff -- took their toll. On the final day of the season and just after his 24th birthday, Roberts made his third start in five days and pitched the Phillies to a 4-1 win over the Brooklyn Dodgers to clinch the pennant.
Roberts started Game 2 of the World Series against the Yankees and held New York to one run on nine hits through nine innings. With the game tied 1-1 in the top the 10th, Joe DiMaggio led off with a solo home run to left field, giving New York a 2-1 win.
The Yankees would go on to sweep Philadelphia. Roberts, who pitched in relief in Game 4, finished the series with a 1.64 ERA in 11 innings.
Roberts spent 14 of his 19 seasons in Philadelphia and was the stalwart of their rotation from 1948 to 1961. His 234 wins as a Phillie are even more impressive considering the team lost more games than it won in that stretch. His best statistical season came in 1952, when he went 28-7 with a 2.59 ERA.
He signed as a free agent with the Baltimore Orioles and spent 1962-64 there before winding down his career with the Houston Astros and Chicago Cubs.
Roberts had a reputation as a control pitcher who relied heavily on his fastball and who threw strikes, sometimes to his detriment. He gave up only 1.3 walks per game over his career, but also gave up at least 40 home runs in three straight seasons.
"I had a high fastball and I either overpowered them or they overpowered me," he once said.
Roberts started five All-Star games and was named to the team seven times. His best years came before the Cy Young Award, but Roberts twice was chosen pitcher of the year by The Sporting News. He also was the publication's player of the year in 1952.
The Phillies retired his jersey, No. 36, in 1962. He remains the franchise's career leader in games pitched, complete games and innings pitched. He was the leader in wins and strikeouts until Steve Carlton eclipsed those marks.
Long after his career ended, Roberts followed the Phillies closely and was still popular in Philadelphia, drawing boisterous applause from fans each time he came back. A statue of him sits outside the first base gate at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia.
He was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1976.
Robin Evan Roberts was born Sept. 30, 1926, in Springfield, Ill. His parents, Tom and Sarah, had moved to central Illinois from Wales in 1921. His father was a coal miner and Roberts grew up listening to the Chicago Cubs games on the radio.
Roberts played baseball, basketball and football at Lanphier High School in Springfield and later went to Michigan State, where he was a star on both the basketball and baseball teams.
During the summers of 1946 and 1947, Roberts pitched in the semi-professional Northern League for Montpelier, Vt. He signed with the Phillies for $25,000 following graduation from Michigan State in 1947. He spent little time in the Phillies' farm system before being called up.
After retiring from baseball, Roberts was a stockbroker and served as baseball coach at the University of South Florida.
Best-selling author James A. Michener, who lived outside Philadelphia, once summed up Roberts' career in The New York Times.
"For two generations of fans, he symbolized the best in athletic competition," Michener wrote. "Day after day he went out there and threw that high, hard one down the middle, a marvelously coordinated man doing his job. If he had pitched for the Yankees he might have won 350 games."
Roberts is survived by four sons, one brother, seven grandchildren and one great-grandson, the Phillies said. His wife, Mary, died five years ago, the team said.
Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press
My drinking team has a hockey problem
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
HUGE game today gentlemen. i'll be firing up the ol' gamecast at work. taking 3 of 4 from the cards is a great early season statement to the rest of the league.
never saw Ted Williams play so can't say for sure. who knows by the time Howard is done he just may be. Fastest ever to 200 home runs and at this rate will be well over 500 for his career. And I never said Ryan Howard was the greatest player of all time. I am just arguining against those who say he is not great and skills are diminishing. To discredit what Howard does is just wrong. I think Ryan Howard along with Chase Utley are both in the top 20 offensive players in the game today and at least in the short term (you can argue the long term ramifications but my theory on that is on the previous page or so as well) is well worth the $25 million he will be getting paid. that's is all I am trying to say. I am not the one trying to discredit Howard by spewing ridiculous theories on what stats are relevant or not. Like the Jaegler I don't need specific stats to tell me who the best players in the game are. Let's all just enjoy the greatest team/era in Philly sports with Howard, Utley etc. and not go down the path with these guys like Eagles fans/media do and run our superstars out the door for their perceived slights regardless of how damn good they are.
This is one thing that has been worrying me about Howard. He's always going to produce with homers because of his strength whenever a pitcher makes a mistake and have rbis because of the Phils lineup but his walk rate has gone done each year and this year it's absurdly low.
2007 4th in walks with 107 in 648 plate appearances .392 on base
2008 13th with 81 in 700 PA .339
2009 16th with 75 in 703 PA .360
2010 79th with 6 in 120 PA .308
He's only walked 4 times on his own in 27 games (2 were intentional) this season. So that tells me either he's not being very patient at all at the plate which may be the case with him striking out in 15 of the last 16 games at least once or that pitchers know how to pitch to him now and are pitching around him less.
Also, they have a while to go to become the best team in Philly sports history - you could argue the Philly A's from 28-32 who average 99 wins and appeared in 3 straight WS and winning 2 during the height of the Ruth and Gehrig era or the Flyers from 72-80 with 2 Cup wins, 2 more losses in the finals, and 3 losses in the conference finals including a 35 game unbeaten streak in 1980.
never saw Ted Williams play so can't say for sure. who knows by the time Howard is done he just may be. Fastest ever to 200 home runs and at this rate will be well over 500 for his career. And I never said Ryan Howard was the greatest player of all time. I am just arguining against those who say he is not great and skills are diminishing. To discredit what Howard does is just wrong. I think Ryan Howard along with Chase Utley are both in the top 20 offensive players in the game today and at least in the short term (you can argue the long term ramifications but my theory on that is on the previous page or so as well) is well worth the $25 million he will be getting paid. that's is all I am trying to say. I am not the one trying to discredit Howard by spewing ridiculous theories on what stats are relevant or not. Like the Jaegler I don't need specific stats to tell me who the best players in the game are. Let's all just enjoy the greatest team/era in Philly sports with Howard, Utley etc. and not go down the path with these guys like Eagles fans/media do and run our superstars out the door for their perceived slights regardless of how damn good they are.
Also, they have a while to go to become the best team in Philly sports history - you could argue the Philly A's from 28-32 who average 99 wins and appeared in 3 straight WS and winning 2 during the height of the Ruth and Gehrig era or the Flyers from 72-80 with 2 Cup wins, 2 more losses in the finals, and 3 losses in the conference finals including a 35 game unbeaten streak in 1980.
solat....the philly a's? you going back to 1928 on us?! best team in the modern philly sports era then assuming they accomplish what we all think/hope they will accomplish in the next few years. they could even surplant that a's pre ww2 team when it's all said and done
Comments
no, RBI are not important stats. read the previous few pages
yeah, jearlpam always brings good shit to the table
this is the correct way to analyze a player...you look at career trends, not career averages.
howard peaked during his MVP season...they are overpaying for diminishing returns going forward. the contract sucks balls
diminishing returns of averaging 46.6 home runs and 141 rbi's the past 3 seasons. sorry I'll take those diminshing returns over anyone not named Pujols.
well played
stop look at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's. stop looking at rbi's
when you talk about most productive offensive player on the phils you refer to chase utley
100% but the Phillies have an excellent team. You put any of those other players on the Phillies and chances are they would have had the same success, if not more.
Edit: I would take Utley over Howard offensivly any day as well, especially considering the position they play.[/quote][/quote]
you are still not accounting for howard putting the entire team on his shoulders down the stretch each of the last 3 seasons. he has done this at times when the rest of the team were in slumps or not at their best. you cannot accurately predict that any of those other guys would have stepped up in the same way at such crucial moments in a season...this is where you have to look at intangibles not stats.[/quote]
the team wouldn't have needed him to do this in september of 2008 if he wasn't so fucking awful for the first 4 months of the season. check out his stats from that year...the dude SUCKED from April - July...everyone remembers his great september (which I give him credit for)...but if howard was even average for the first 4 months of the season the phils win the division going away.
so please stop with the 'he carries them in sept' crap
i, and everyone else here, am well aware of his early season struggles that year. i am also aware that he was WHITE HOT down the stretch when we needed him.
so, no, i won't stop with the "he carries them in sept crap" cuz he does it every year...
you can pick out stats to knock him but this is one thing you certainly cannot knock him for. come on dude.
ah, serenity now. serenity now.
I'm exhausted. it wasn't 'early struggles', it was being horrendous for almost an entire season.
Hopefully kendrick can keep the cards under 10 tonight
admit: you hate ryan howard almost as you hate donovan mcnabb
only kidding dude...only kidding. kind of.
howard isn't my favorite, just like mcnabb wasn't my favorite. I root for whoever is wearing the uniforms though (except for bobby abreu...I hated that mf'er like no other)
it's cool...never have to apologize to me for busting my balls...I love that shit
:thumbup:
nice story.
Glad they are back to their winning ways. Pitching has been great with Kendrick and Hammels. Tomorrow it's Halladays turn.
I'm looking forward to the Halladay vs Holliday match-up
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
your own twisted logic proves Ryan Howard's value - follow your own logic here dude.
1) RBIs don't count because they are dependent upon your teammates
2) you can't win a baseball game without scoring runs
3) the only way to score runs in a baseball game not dependent up your teammates is to hit HOME RUNS
4) Conclusion: the most important/best offensive players are the players that hit the most home runs
5) in the past 4 years in the top in home runs is (or top 2 or 3 didn't look it up) ...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it......RYAN HOWARD!!!!!!!
ding ding ding we have a winner folks. game set match. checkmate. here endeth the lesson!
got to love guys who use an argument that disproves their own opinions.
Holy fuck dude, are we are we really going to do this again today? The best offensive players are not necessarily the players who hit the most homeruns. Chase Utley does not hit the most home runs on the Phillies and he is CLEARLY the best offensive player on the Phillies.
Edit: In your logic, Ted Williams would not be in the conversation for one of the best offensive players ever, correct?
DUDE CAN YOU READ? I said by YOUR LOGIC of RBIs dont' matter you've disproven your own damn theory about Howard. jeez you make your own argument for 2 pages and can't even follow it.
I don't understand what you are getting at. You really cant try to tell me that by me saying RBI's are not the most important factor, I am somehow saying home runs are the most important factor. Come on dude. Go talk to the Fixer or Jearlpam. They know their baseball. I give up.
Take a look at things like the triple slash stats and OPS along with RBI's and look at trends not overall.
I am done
Edit: According to you, Ryan Howard is better than Ted Williams. Ted William only hit 40 HR's once and had 140 RBI's twice. Answer my question, is Ryan Howard better than Ted Williams?
never saw Ted Williams play so can't say for sure. who knows by the time Howard is done he just may be. Fastest ever to 200 home runs and at this rate will be well over 500 for his career. And I never said Ryan Howard was the greatest player of all time. I am just arguining against those who say he is not great and skills are diminishing. To discredit what Howard does is just wrong. I think Ryan Howard along with Chase Utley are both in the top 20 offensive players in the game today and at least in the short term (you can argue the long term ramifications but my theory on that is on the previous page or so as well) is well worth the $25 million he will be getting paid. that's is all I am trying to say. I am not the one trying to discredit Howard by spewing ridiculous theories on what stats are relevant or not. Like the Jaegler I don't need specific stats to tell me who the best players in the game are. Let's all just enjoy the greatest team/era in Philly sports with Howard, Utley etc. and not go down the path with these guys like Eagles fans/media do and run our superstars out the door for their perceived slights regardless of how damn good they are.
The is a lot more reasonable than anything you have said so far (aside from the second sentence, take a look at his stats, stupid good). Door on this conversation is closed.
Robin
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5167653
'Whiz Kid' Roberts dies at 83
PHILADELPHIA -- Robin Roberts, the Hall of Fame pitcher who led the Philadelphia Phillies to the 1950 National League pennant as part of the famed "Whiz Kids," has died. He was 83.
Roberts died Thursday morning at his Temple Terrace, Fla., home of natural causes, the Phillies announced, citing Roberts' son Jim.
The right-hander was the most productive pitcher in the National League in the first half of the 1950s, topping the league in wins from 1952 to 1955, innings pitched from '51 to '55 and complete games from '52 to '56.
He won 286 games and put together six consecutive 20-win seasons. Roberts had 45 career shutouts, 2,357 strikeouts and a lifetime ERA of 3.41. He pitched 305 complete games, but also holds the dubious distinction of giving up more home runs than any other Major League pitcher.
"Workhorse is a weak description," Philadelphia Daily News writer Stan Hochman wrote about Roberts in 2003. "He was a mule, stubborn, cantankerous and willing to toil from sunup to sundown."
Phillies fans will remember Roberts as the leading pitcher on the 1950 squad that won the franchise's first pennant in 35 years. Roberts put together a 20-11 season with a 3.02 ERA and five shutouts.
The team, with several 25-and-younger stars such as Roberts, Richie Ashburn and Del Ennis, was dubbed the "Whiz Kids." It marked the end a three-decade span in which the Phillies were mostly awful.
The Phillies held a 7� game lead with 11 games to go, but struggled to hang on as injuries -- especially to the pitching staff -- took their toll. On the final day of the season and just after his 24th birthday, Roberts made his third start in five days and pitched the Phillies to a 4-1 win over the Brooklyn Dodgers to clinch the pennant.
Roberts started Game 2 of the World Series against the Yankees and held New York to one run on nine hits through nine innings. With the game tied 1-1 in the top the 10th, Joe DiMaggio led off with a solo home run to left field, giving New York a 2-1 win.
The Yankees would go on to sweep Philadelphia. Roberts, who pitched in relief in Game 4, finished the series with a 1.64 ERA in 11 innings.
Roberts spent 14 of his 19 seasons in Philadelphia and was the stalwart of their rotation from 1948 to 1961. His 234 wins as a Phillie are even more impressive considering the team lost more games than it won in that stretch. His best statistical season came in 1952, when he went 28-7 with a 2.59 ERA.
He signed as a free agent with the Baltimore Orioles and spent 1962-64 there before winding down his career with the Houston Astros and Chicago Cubs.
Roberts had a reputation as a control pitcher who relied heavily on his fastball and who threw strikes, sometimes to his detriment. He gave up only 1.3 walks per game over his career, but also gave up at least 40 home runs in three straight seasons.
"I had a high fastball and I either overpowered them or they overpowered me," he once said.
Roberts started five All-Star games and was named to the team seven times. His best years came before the Cy Young Award, but Roberts twice was chosen pitcher of the year by The Sporting News. He also was the publication's player of the year in 1952.
The Phillies retired his jersey, No. 36, in 1962. He remains the franchise's career leader in games pitched, complete games and innings pitched. He was the leader in wins and strikeouts until Steve Carlton eclipsed those marks.
Long after his career ended, Roberts followed the Phillies closely and was still popular in Philadelphia, drawing boisterous applause from fans each time he came back. A statue of him sits outside the first base gate at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia.
He was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1976.
Robin Evan Roberts was born Sept. 30, 1926, in Springfield, Ill. His parents, Tom and Sarah, had moved to central Illinois from Wales in 1921. His father was a coal miner and Roberts grew up listening to the Chicago Cubs games on the radio.
Roberts played baseball, basketball and football at Lanphier High School in Springfield and later went to Michigan State, where he was a star on both the basketball and baseball teams.
During the summers of 1946 and 1947, Roberts pitched in the semi-professional Northern League for Montpelier, Vt. He signed with the Phillies for $25,000 following graduation from Michigan State in 1947. He spent little time in the Phillies' farm system before being called up.
After retiring from baseball, Roberts was a stockbroker and served as baseball coach at the University of South Florida.
Best-selling author James A. Michener, who lived outside Philadelphia, once summed up Roberts' career in The New York Times.
"For two generations of fans, he symbolized the best in athletic competition," Michener wrote. "Day after day he went out there and threw that high, hard one down the middle, a marvelously coordinated man doing his job. If he had pitched for the Yankees he might have won 350 games."
Roberts is survived by four sons, one brother, seven grandchildren and one great-grandson, the Phillies said. His wife, Mary, died five years ago, the team said.
Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
HUGE game today gentlemen. i'll be firing up the ol' gamecast at work. taking 3 of 4 from the cards is a great early season statement to the rest of the league.
GO PHILS.
This is one thing that has been worrying me about Howard. He's always going to produce with homers because of his strength whenever a pitcher makes a mistake and have rbis because of the Phils lineup but his walk rate has gone done each year and this year it's absurdly low.
2007 4th in walks with 107 in 648 plate appearances .392 on base
2008 13th with 81 in 700 PA .339
2009 16th with 75 in 703 PA .360
2010 79th with 6 in 120 PA .308
He's only walked 4 times on his own in 27 games (2 were intentional) this season. So that tells me either he's not being very patient at all at the plate which may be the case with him striking out in 15 of the last 16 games at least once or that pitchers know how to pitch to him now and are pitching around him less.
Also, they have a while to go to become the best team in Philly sports history - you could argue the Philly A's from 28-32 who average 99 wins and appeared in 3 straight WS and winning 2 during the height of the Ruth and Gehrig era or the Flyers from 72-80 with 2 Cup wins, 2 more losses in the finals, and 3 losses in the conference finals including a 35 game unbeaten streak in 1980.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
solat....the philly a's? you going back to 1928 on us?! best team in the modern philly sports era then assuming they accomplish what we all think/hope they will accomplish in the next few years. they could even surplant that a's pre ww2 team when it's all said and done