***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Cliffy6745

Solat13 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

It's going to be SCARY. It's wouldn't be a long shot to hand him the Cy Young now. I know I sound like a homer, but seriously...

No, you're not being a homer. The way I look at it - you traded a very good all star caliber pitcher for a hall of fame caliber pitcher. That's an upgrade in my opinion.

Yes, You're a gigantic homer, but its all good. You know your baseball.

I agree that Halladay is a hall of fame cailber pitcher while Lee is an allstar but Lee also has 800 less innings pitched than Halladay so he has a lot of time. Game 1 of the World Series was possibly the most dominant pitching performance I have ever seen, Wells and Cone included.

Listening to Lee talk now. Dude wanted to stay, not even really excited about Seattle.

Jearlpam0925

Solat13 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

And Clifton Phifer Lee will be a Los Angeles Dodger in 2011. I have a weird feeling that happens. And he gets his 6 year, 23 mil per deal.

That depends on how much money McCourt has left after his divorce.

Yeah. My roommate's girlfriend's sister(following?) is the assistant GM and said she's pissed because of all of this because they were building to be aggressive then Manny was a douche and now the atrophy of not being able to spend this offseason - not her exact words.

Jearlpam0925

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

It's going to be SCARY. It's wouldn't be a long shot to hand him the Cy Young now. I know I sound like a homer, but seriously...

No, you're not being a homer. The way I look at it - you traded a very good all star caliber pitcher for a hall of fame caliber pitcher. That's an upgrade in my opinion.

Yes, You're a gigantic homer, but its all good. You know your baseball.

I agree that Halladay is a hall of fame cailber pitcher while Lee is an allstar but Lee also has 800 less innings pitched than Halladay so he has a lot of time. Game 1 of the World Series was possibly the most dominant pitching performance I have ever seen, Wells and Cone included.

Listening to Lee talk now. Dude wanted to stay, not even really excited about Seattle.

Just heard it on Baseball Tonight - I guess you the same? You're right. He does sound a little out of place. But he'll get over it. We'll always love em.

Cliffy6745

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

And Clifton Phifer Lee will be a Los Angeles Dodger in 2011. I have a weird feeling that happens. And he gets his 6 year, 23 mil per deal.

He deserves it, he has an outstanding name

My prediction. Carl Crawford is a Yankee next offseason, I dont give a fuck what it takes. Crawford, Granderson, Swisher (Maybe) in the outfield...infield of Tex, Cano, Jeter, Arod. FUCK AND YES!

Ehhhh, I could see Crawford on the Mets if they don't sign Bay this year. LOVE Crawford. Swisher on the other hand.....If ever in a dark alley. Weird fucked up shit I would do, just to haunt him the rest of his life. WALKING DOUCHEBAG, and it has nothing to do with World Series win and all to do with the faux hawk, and his feeling that he was an immediate contributor to those rings that will be received. Horrible player, can't stand him.

I have said all year I would hate Swisher if he were not on the Yankees. Loved him this year though.

I really think the Yanks are holding out on Crawford for next year. Great player. I would love to have Nick Johnson as DH and Melky in LF for one year if it means Crawford next year. Yanks will outbid the mets, don't you worry. Plus crawford does not want to waste his energy running around that stupid outfield.

Jearlpam0925

Cliffy6745 wrote:

I have said all year I would hate Swisher if he were not on the Yankees. Loved him this year though.

I really think the Yanks are holding out on Crawford for next year. Great player. I would love to have Nick Johnson as DH and Melky in LF for one year if it means Crawford next year. Yanks will outbid the mets, don't you worry. Plus crawford does not want to waste his energy running around that stupid outfield.

CC would have 20 HR's at Citi Field - 15 by way of inside the park.

Solat13

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

It's going to be SCARY. It's wouldn't be a long shot to hand him the Cy Young now. I know I sound like a homer, but seriously...

No, you're not being a homer. The way I look at it - you traded a very good all star caliber pitcher for a hall of fame caliber pitcher. That's an upgrade in my opinion.

Yes, You're a gigantic homer, but its all good. You know your baseball.

I agree that Halladay is a hall of fame cailber pitcher while Lee is an allstar but Lee also has 800 less innings pitched than Halladay so he has a lot of time. Game 1 of the World Series was possibly the most dominant pitching performance I have ever seen, Wells and Cone included.

Listening to Lee talk now. Dude wanted to stay, not even really excited about Seattle.

Lee is good, but 31 year old pitchers with 90 wins would need to have a hell of stretch to make the hall.

Schilling only had 69 wins at the same age, but won 147 over the next 10 years and 3 World Series and he's a borderline HOF candidate.

Johnson had 81 at the same age and won 222 over the next 15 years.

I'm not ready to put Lee in that category - considering he's two years removed from self destructing and being in the minors for half a season.

Cliffy6745

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Just heard it on Baseball Tonight - I guess you the same? You're right. He does sound a little out of place. But he'll get over it. We'll always love em.

Yeah, that's what I saw him on. He will definitely get over it. Millions of dollars will do that to you.

Love him as long as you remember he pitched 2 incredible games in route to the Yankees 27th World Championship (sorry I had to).

Alright fellas, baseball is the best sport in the world because I could talk about it all night but I have to get some sleep. Couple more days until a long xmas break..

The Juggler

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

After what Cliff Lee said tonight, I am starting to think RAJ is a jerk off and had a hard on for Halladay this whole time. If the guy said he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly then Amaro traded 7 of his top 10 prospects to get Halladay, come on... he could have gotten something worked out with Lee.

If Lee was willing to sign an extension this is a huge waste of a prospects and there is no way you can defend it

I just listened to the podcast on espn. Hearing that pisses me off u could here in his voice it wanted to stay here. I love getting halladay but would have rathered keep and signed lee and keep drabek and taylor. Lee was blindsided from what he said and sounded like he would have taken less then market value here as well.

That's all well and good. But tell me how this helps them past 2010? What's below market value for Lee - 17, 18, 19? Tell me how they afford to pay that after 2010 when there's about every other position on the field to sign first? The BIGGEST contractual decision this organization HAS to make is to sign Howard to an extension when his contract's up. So there's 20-25 per right there you gotta sign, then Cole, Jimmy, Werth's due a huge pay day, Victorino. People forget that we're not the Yankees and past 2011 they have to dole out some serious money to a lot of everyday players.

i believe he's now saying we should have only kept lee and traded prospects for halladay...thus saving a million or two that you would have paid halladay

The Juggler

Solat13 wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

My point is that an injury will heal much quicker at 28 than it will at 36 and it will be a lot less nagging. Was it a great move letting Burrell go? For sure, but I really dont know about signing a 36 year old to a 3 year, 30 mil deal. That is very risky.

Lee had no incentive to say anything. He gets nothing out of saying he was disappointed in being traded. He has every right to the big contract that he has never had and no one would think less of him for saying so. I really don't think he would say he wanted to spend the rest of his career in Philly unless he meant it.

Fuck me, if the Mariners sign Damon, god damn that is a scary team.

Maybe you have a point there. But if you look at it through his eyes - come from a shitty city dishing payroll to a passionate metropolitan city and your first time in your life not only are you in the playoffs but the World Series - of course you would have some sentimentality for this city. But again, it's not Clif dealing with any of the contractual content of the business, it's his agent. And his agent Derek Whatever-his-name-is was on WIP and said most of the same stuff, and so I say, I take it with a grain of salt.

Well Lee should have been in the playoffs in 2007 if he didn't go 2-8 with a 6.40 era against the AL. He did go 3-0 with 3.17 era in interleague play and got passed over by Paul Byrd and Jake Westbrook. If he pitched anything like he did the 2 years before or after Cleveland probably wins the World Series and he and C.C. are still with the tribe. He was with Cleveland on the bench though during their playoff run, but I digress.

I would love if both Lee and Halladay were here, but it wasn't meant to be. Plus if that 140 mil number is a hard number for the Phils and that's a really high number when you consider only 3 teams have ever had payroll that high (Yankees every year since 2003, Boston in 2007 and the Mets last year) the Phils have a lot of tough decisions because the only payroll coming off next year is Blanton and Moyer and the Phils will need 2 starting pitchers to replace them and have to deal with Werth being a free agent, whether or not to pick up J Roll's option and Victorino's future.

They already have 105 million committed for 2011 not counting Werth, Victorino and Rollins and 2 starting pitchers unless Kendrick comes around and then you only need one.

the 140m payroll would have been higher only for next year as lee would have walked after 2010....and then, what nobody is talking about, we would have gotten 2 first round picks if he left. they very well could turn out to be better than these prospects we got for him in this trade. you might have to wait a couple years longer but so what? there are still these players called free agents that you can replace your players with too guys.
we could have had both. i've been going back and forth on this for days. but i just cant get beyond this. i realize you are going beyond what ownership wants to spend. but like mikey miss has been saying, few teams in the history of the game have had this opportunity in front of them for one year....just one fucking year have a rotation for the ages. when was the last time we were odds on favorites to win the world series? if it happened ever, it was 30 years ago. and we could have had that next year.

jamminpearls

I believe that ruben should have told lee's camp listen either we get this extension signed right now or we are gonna trade him and get Halladay. The way lee sounded is that he really wanted to be here and imo would have left some money on the table to be apart of a world series contender. If lee and his camp weren't willing to do this then i completely understand the halladay deal and lee trade. i guess we will never know the truth.

The main thing that sucks about the trades is we let alot go to get halladay imo. i would have rather signed lee waited to see what hamels does then have happ as well. If Drabek is half as good as scouts say then he would be a #3 easy. Taylor and Brown have a very high ceiling,not actually knowing what these players will turn into is why the halladay trade makes sense. Would u rather have a rotation in 2011 of halladay, hamels, happ then ?? or Lee hamels, happ and drabek. To me its a no brainer but its a topic that will be discussed for a long time with no right anwser.

Cliffy6745

Phillies exercised Rollins 2011 option. Don't usually see that.

The Juggler

GO BIRDS!

Jearlpam0925

FLIP FLIP FLIPADELPELPHIA

Gary Carter

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

Ehhhh, I could see Crawford on the Mets if they don't sign Bay this year. LOVE Crawford. Swisher on the other hand.....If ever in a dark alley. Weird fucked up shit I would do, just to haunt him the rest of his life. WALKING DOUCHEBAG, and it has nothing to do with World Series win and all to do with the faux hawk, and his feeling that he was an immediate contributor to those rings that will be received. Horrible player, can't stand him.

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face. crawford will be a met next even if they sign bay. francoeur is only signed through the 2010 season.

The Champ

metsfan wrote:

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face.

I think the pie guy is a different asshole on the team..

jamminpearls

Just caught the end of the cliff lee interview with mikey miss. He was pissed said he never had a better time playing baseball in his whole life then with the phillies.I need to here this whole interview cause the little I heard he was pissed

Cliffy6745

The Champ wrote:

metsfan wrote:

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face.

I think the pie guy is a different asshole on the team..

It was Burnett

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Champ wrote:

metsfan wrote:

the only thing swisher has done for the yankees is make the clubhouse more fun with the pies in the face.

I think the pie guy is a different asshole on the team..

It was Burnett

i got the 2 clowns confused

my bad

Cliffy6745

metsfan wrote:

i got the 2 clowns confused

my bad

Clown, Asshole, World Champion; whatever you want to call them

theoceansmademe

jamminpearls wrote:

Just caught the end of the cliff lee interview with mikey miss. He was pissed said he never had a better time playing baseball in his whole life then with the phillies.I need to here this whole interview cause the little I heard he was pissed

didn't hear the interview, but I was totally miffed as to why the Phillies made this move.

Hallday is a beast with incredible numbers but he has been pitched A LOT. Many more IP than Lee.

I would have stuck with Lee.