Boston Red Sox

Yellow Ledbelly · October 2008

g under p wrote:

Don't be so sure.

Peace

I try to be positive as much as possible but I have felt from early in the season that there just something missing this season. Even if Manny had played to his full capability and was still with the team I don't think they had "IT". Papi isn't right, Beckett never was, Lowell was basically a non-factor all season, Schill was on the shelf and Drew has been a comer and a goer. Personally, I think it is amazing they did as well as they did this season.
Whether they make a miraculous comeback in this series or not (and I pray I am wrong about that) some major moves will have to be made in the offseason if the Sox are going to continue to be at the top of the league. I'm glad I won't be the one trying to keep it together because there are going to be waaaaaay too many uncertainties heading into 2009. Can Lowell bounce back after hip surgery? Has Beckett's time come and gone? Can Dice-K really be counted on to be a first or second starter (IMO: Probably not because most of his wins this season were just shit house luck and that will play out) and what about Papi, the slugger with the bum wrist? Poor Theo.
So, what do they need? I think they absolutely must add another power bat whether Papi is going to get his groove back or not. He isn't the same player without the protection Manny gave him in the lineup.
On paper, Lester, Dice-K and Beckett are a bad ass three-headed monster in the rotation, but Lester, to me, is the only one I feel like can be counted on at this point. And even Lester probably can't be a highly successful #1 starter. So, they need to go out and get a prime time free agent pitcher, too.

Stone Is God · October 2008

petrocs wrote:

The nation is crumbling! nice run boys but your day has come

I really don't think "the nation" is crumbling. They're getting beat by a better team. 04 and 07 the Sox were the best teams, this year however they are not. I do think "the run" is up in the air though as it will be tough in the AL east to make the playoffs now that the Rays are there and the Yanks will be back.

The Rays have the look and the feel that they have the team set up for a 3 in 5 years or 3 in 6 years run for championships. They just look incredible right now.

petrocs · October 2008

Stone Is God wrote:

I really don't think "the nation" is crumbling. They're getting beat by a better team. 04 and 07 the Sox were the best teams, this year however they are not. I do think "the run" is up in the air though as it will be tough in the AL east to make the playoffs now that the Rays are there and the Yanks will be back.

The Rays have the look and the feel that they have the team set up for a 3 in 5 years or 3 in 6 years run for championships. They just look incredible right now.

I would agree with that

Yellow Ledbelly · October 2008

I wouldn't necessarily say the Nation is crumbling, but I think it is definitely teetering on the edge of a fall from grace.....the offseason, like I said before, will be crucial.
And the Rays are a better team this year. When I ran cross country in high school this kid showed up at practice one day and said he wanted to run but he had never tried it before, just thought he would like it. All of us who had been running mile after mile every day laughed because we just knew he couldn't take it and he would break easily. But he was great and won the state championship (I finished third that year by the way). The reason he was good was because he was totally oblivious to the fact that it was supposed to be hard. The Rays, in a lot of ways, remind me of that dude....they're young and bullheaded and could give a shit that they are playing the defending champions. Blocking out what is "supposed to be" and taking care of business even though everybody tells them winning in the playoffs is too hard for such a young team with virtually no playoff experience (what, something like four games total?) is what has made them great this year to me.

Oh, and I always suggested that lying sack of shit who "all of a sudden with no training" decided he wanted to run cross country was more full of stuffing than a Christmas turkey

Stone Is God · October 2008

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily say the Nation is crumbling, but I think it is definitely teetering on the edge of a fall from grace.....the offseason, like I said before, will be crucial

They have enough tools to make moves in the off season to fix things. They've got $36 million being freed up and I think they have a few dead deals coming off the books. They should have the money and the chips on the farm to do what they need to do.

They'll resign Varitek but for less than the $10 million that they're paying him now. I think that they're going to make a run at AJ Burnett. There's really not a lot out there as far as bats are concerned. I think they'll sign Bay to a deal in the off season. Something like 4 for $48 million.

It'll be interesting to see what they do.

riffrandall · October 2008

Fuck the Red Sox. Seriously let's just get this over with at this point.

They are not playing like defending World Series Champs, and they deserve to lose.

Everyone in Boston today is crying "2004" and "2007" and it's so lame. SO lame. Season over. Let's go golfing.

Wobbie · October 2008

g under p wrote:

Thanks for putting the may in there cause *It ain't Over, TILL it's Over*

The ALCS is definitely over. The run of excellence "may" be over. :eek:

jimed14 · October 2008

people got to relax ... what are we really talking about here? A three game winning streak?

Not that outlandish when you think about it.

Stone Is God · October 2008

jimed14 wrote:

people got to relax ... what are we really talking about here? A three game winning streak?

Not that outlandish when you think about it.

Yeah, except it's to a team that has put up 31 runs and 10 HR's in the last 3 games against you. Also when you're hitting .150 with runners in scoring position, it doesn't help the cause.

I'd love to see them come back but I just don't think it'll happen this year.

Yellow Ledbelly · October 2008

It is certainly over, but several months ago in this very thread (I believe) I said there was no way in hell the Sox would ever get by the Angels this year....so they have exceeded my expectations. I was wrong about the Angels, but it is GUARANTEED they cannot and will not beat the Rays three straight.....I find it doubtful they will even win Thursday

Slip Kid · October 2008

I'd have to agree (unfortunately) with Yellow Ledbelly.

We need better pitchers we can't rely on just Lester and Dice K. We need strong pitches who won't buckle under these conditions. What happened the last two games was ridiculous especially yesterdays game.

And I am aware of the hitters too. Papi isn't doing a damn thing except getting an easy out for the Rays. He has been shut down ever since this post season has started. The only players that have been solid is Varitex and Youk and to an extent Bay.

The off season will be something to be watched. If we pick up good players that can perform then we'll be back in post season again.

I'm not trying to take away from the Rays they are a solid team who have got their shit together. Of course, I don't want them to win.

Stone Is God · October 2008

Slip Kid wrote:

The only players that have been solid is Varitex and Youk and to an extent Bay.

Don't you mean Pedroia, Youk, and Bay? Everyone else is terrible.

Yellow Ledbelly · October 2008

Stone Is God wrote:

Don't you mean Pedroia, Youk, and Bay? Everyone else is terrible.

He damn sure didn't mean Varitek....Cap'n is useless

jimed14 · October 2008

Stone Is God wrote:

Yeah, except it's to a team that has put up 31 runs and 10 HR's in the last 3 games against you. Also when you're hitting .150 with runners in scoring position, it doesn't help the cause.

I'd love to see them come back but I just don't think it'll happen this year.

I remember looking at the Yankees individual player stats after the 3-0 lead they had in 2004. That was unreal to look at.

Again, I'm not saying it's a sure thing, I'm not even saying they are favored, far from it ...

I'm just saying, why bail now? Why concede it's over? Hope they win game 5 and we'll see where we are.

Stone Is God · October 2008

jimed14 wrote:

I remember looking at the Yankees individual player stats after the 3-0 lead they had in 2004. That was unreal to look at.

Again, I'm not saying it's a sure thing, I'm not even saying they are favored, far from it ...

I'm just saying, why bail now? Why concede it's over? Hope they win game 5 and we'll see where we are.

I know where you're coming from. It's not over till the last out in the final game, I'm just saying I don't have a good feeling.

Slip Kid · October 2008

Stone Is God wrote:

Don't you mean Pedroia, Youk, and Bay? Everyone else is terrible.

Fair enough but you can't discredit Varitex because he's a good defensive player. Not getting it done at bat but he makes some incredible plays.

Poncier · October 2008

Slip Kid wrote:

Fair enough but you can't discredit Varitex because he's a good defensive player. Not getting it done at bat but he makes some incredible plays.

Yeah, like that passed ball.

Tek is hitting a robust .000 in the ALCS, sorry thats hard to excuse no matter what kind of defense he is playing (frankly he made 1 good play against the Angels on the squeeze, and his handling of the staff hasn't been all that impressive of late looking at how Beckett and Lester have gotten rocked).

Slip Kid · October 2008

Poncier wrote:

Yeah, like that passed ball.

Tek is hitting a robust .000 in the ALCS, sorry thats hard to excuse no matter what kind of defense he is playing (frankly he made 1 good play against the Angels on the squeeze, and his handling of the staff hasn't been all that impressive of late looking at how Beckett and Lester have gotten rocked).

Well, I still feel he's a good player considering how things have been going to shit as of late. He needs some work but again a lot of the team needs work too.

Poncier · October 2008

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

So, what do they need? I think they absolutely must add another power bat whether Papi is going to get his groove back or not. He isn't the same player without the protection Manny gave him in the lineup.
On paper, Lester, Dice-K and Beckett are a bad ass three-headed monster in the rotation, but Lester, to me, is the only one I feel like can be counted on at this point. And even Lester probably can't be a highly successful #1 starter. So, they need to go out and get a prime time free agent pitcher, too.

I think the rotation is the least of their worries going forward, Matsuzaka and Beckett are both only 28, Lester is 24...none anywhere near past their prime..adding possibly Masterson and Buchholz if he can sort himself out makes it a strong, young rotation.

The bullpen has a few holes, especially if Masterson returns to the rotation...besides Papelbon Delcarmen and Okajima, you have pretty much nothing...Timlin should retire, and unfortunately I think Wakefield should as well.

They need a bat for sure (how would Manny's 7 for 8 with RISP in the playofs look in this series?), but not sure they pay for one this offseason, they'll have Bay under contract, the position players are basically set up for next year (Bay, Ellsbury, Drew in the OF, Lowell, Lowrie, Pedroia and Youk in the infield) and Ortiz is entrenched as DH.

They need some production at catcher, but there's not a lot available, so resigning Varitek may happen, but he has become a huge liability with the stick.

Health may be their biggest problem...clearly Lowell, Ortiz, Drew and Beckett have been hampered at the very least down the stretch and into the post season.

I think the 2009 Red Sox will look a lot like the post July 31 2008 Red Sox, so get used to them needing to manufacture runs and not bomb away like the Rays are currently doing...its amazing how trading Manny can change the team's dynamic.

So I think the priorites are a 4th starter (not too hard to find) unless both Masterson and Buchholz can back end the rotation, a quality bullpen arm and possibly some catching help and maybe a power bat for the bench/4th outfielder role. (They have no pop on the bench, just soft hitting guys like Coco, Casey and Cora).

And trade Julio Lugo for a bucket of balls.

Stone Is God · October 2008

Poncier wrote:

I think the rotation is the least of their worries going forward, Matsuzaka and Beckett are both only 28, Lester is 24...none anywhere near past their prime..adding possibly Masterson and Buchholz if he can sort himself out makes it a strong, young rotation.

The bullpen has a few holes, especially if Masterson returns to the rotation...besides Papelbon Delcarmen and Okajima, you have pretty much nothing...Timlin should retire, and unfortunately I think Wakefield should as well.

They need a bat for sure (how would Manny's 7 for 8 with RISP in the playofs look in this series?), but not sure they pay for one this offseason, they'll have Bay under contract, the position players are basically set up for next year (Bay, Ellsbury, Drew in the OF, Lowell, Lowrie, Pedroia and Youk in the infield) and Ortiz is entrenched as DH.

They need some production at catcher, but there's not a lot available, so resigning Varitek may happen, but he has become a huge liability with the stick.

Health may be their biggest problem...clearly Lowell, Ortiz, Drew and Beckett have been hampered at the very least down the stretch and into the post season.

I think the 2009 Red Sox will look a lot like the post July 31 2008 Red Sox, so get used to them needing to manufacture runs and not bomb away like the Rays are currently doing...its amazing how trading Manny can change the team's dynamic.

So I think the priorites are a 4th starter (not too hard to find) unless both Masterson and Buchholz can back end the rotation, a quality bullpen arm and possibly some catching help and maybe a power bat for the bench/4th outfielder role. (They have no pop on the bench, just soft hitting guys like Coco, Casey and Cora).

And trade Julio Lugo for a bucket of balls.

I think that they might just deal Bucholtz. I'm thinking Masterson has a higher ceiling. They might make him a starter and put Clay in the bully. I really think that they make a run at AJ Burnett.

They do need another stick but where are they going to put it. There really is no opening in the lineup for another stick if you think about it unless they decided to move someone.

EDIT: I'm missed what you said about the bat for the bench, my bad.

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