The 2008 New York Yankees
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I don't understand the coco crisp part of it, either, but Lester, Masterson, and Lowrie looks like a good trade to me.Fighting Hellfish wrote:I'm not buying it. Why would the Twins want Coco Crisp? He's expensive AND Not that good.
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Fighting Hellfish wrote:You mean like when the Red Sox were guaranteed never winning a divion this decade after the Yankees landed ARod? And C'mon. No Yankee pitcher is better than Old Man Schilling or Older Man Wakefield? Matsuzaka was a bust. let's see if he can manage to pitch an entire MLB season next year. Santana I'll give you would be the best pitcher on both staffs. Beckett is coming off a great year, but let's not forget that the year before he had a 5.02 ERA. And in 2003 and 2004 he was a combined 18-17, missing huge chunks of time due to blisters. I'll take Pettitte, Joba and Wang ove ranyone on the Sox besides Beckett and Santana (If that even happens)
Must feel odd for Red Sox fans as they attempt to buy another championship while the Yankees are content to build from withing, and keep their own players
Actually the Red Sox Payroll is about 130 mil right now and the Yanks are pushing 200. If the Sox get Santana and unload Crisp in the same deal their payroll will be about the same or a little less than last year's and well under the luxury tax threshold.- Busted down the pretext
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Fighting Hellfish wrote:You mean like when the Red Sox were guaranteed never winning a divion this decade after the Yankees landed ARod? And C'mon. No Yankee pitcher is better than Old Man Schilling or Older Man Wakefield? Matsuzaka was a bust. let's see if he can manage to pitch an entire MLB season next year. Santana I'll give you would be the best pitcher on both staffs. Beckett is coming off a great year, but let's not forget that the year before he had a 5.02 ERA. And in 2003 and 2004 he was a combined 18-17, missing huge chunks of time due to blisters. I'll take Pettitte, Joba and Wang ove ranyone on the Sox besides Beckett and Santana (If that even happens)
Must feel odd for Red Sox fans as they attempt to buy another championship while the Yankees are content to build from withing, and keep their own players
man i can't agree boston staff is way better in my mind ,DICEK will have a better yr you now what BECKET brings to the table and if you add SANTANA ,i like joba alot but still need to see him throught a whole yr ,WANG didn't respond at all when we needed him these past playoffs i just don't see it like you but then again i'm a pessemist ....jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
I'm not convinced matsuzaka will be better. In Japan they pitch one day a week, and it's the same day each week. In his last 3 years in japan, he started 25, 28 and 23 games. That's why he broke down and sucked from mid-August on. Maybe they'll condition him better and get a full year out of him in 2008, who knows? And I'm not 100% sold on Beckett. Obviously he was outstanding in 2007. But you can't forget the 5.02 ERA in 2006, or the blisters that wrecked many a season for him. Plus, the Yankees have hit him pretty good since he's been in Boston. Even Santana the Yanks have done pretty well against. Not that they've hammered him or anything, and it will be different with the Boston offense behind him, but usually they get him out of the game after 7.0
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Hearing more and more rumors about this Johan to Boston trade. Looks like its gonna be Lester, Coco, & 3 prospects.
You gotta be kidding me twins? Worst trade ever! Twins were said to be adament about including Ellsbury and/or Bucholz and now they may get neither and give up the best lefty in the game.PJ - 36
EV - 5
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An official from one of the two teams said the Twins have still not responded to Boston's proposals for Johan Santana.
ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Twins also haven't talked to the Yankees at all today. It's assumed the Red Sox have two offers out: Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson for Santana and one that replaces Lester and Crisp with Jacoby Ellsbury. The Red Sox were expecting to hear back from the Twins by this morning or afternoon, but the longer this goes on, the more it seems the Twins are exploring all of their alternatives first. Dec. 4 - 3:22 pm et
I'd say go with the Ellsbury deal.
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Fighting Hellfish wrote:...Matsuzaka was a bust....
Must feel odd for Red Sox fans as they attempt to buy another championship while the Yankees are content to build from withing, and keep their own players
how exactly is 15-12, 4.40 era, 32 starts, 204.2 IP a bust? don't forget the 200 strikeouts.
and by trading away talent that the red sox drafted and built up in their farm system (crisp the exception, but they traded a highly touted prospect in andy marte away for him) is considered an attempt to buy a championship? as a yankee fan, you really need to take a good, long look in the mirror. you want ATTEMPTING to buy a championship year in and year, look no further than your three years in a row bounced from the playoffs in the first round new york yankees.0 -
more than $100 million for a 4.40 ERA is a bust. he might be better next year, but only if he is conditioned for a MLB season, which he clearly was not in 20070
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Fighting Hellfish wrote:I'm not convinced matsuzaka will be better. In Japan they pitch one day a week, and it's the same day each week. In his last 3 years in japan, he started 25, 28 and 23 games. That's why he broke down and sucked from mid-August on. Maybe they'll condition him better and get a full year out of him in 2008, who knows? And I'm not 100% sold on Beckett. Obviously he was outstanding in 2007. But you can't forget the 5.02 ERA in 2006, or the blisters that wrecked many a season for him. Plus, the Yankees have hit him pretty good since he's been in Boston. Even Santana the Yanks have done pretty well against. Not that they've hammered him or anything, and it will be different with the Boston offense behind him, but usually they get him out of the game after 7.
I'm just curious - in 8 of his losses or no decisions he pitched 6 + while giving up 2 runs or less. If he wins even 3 of those games he wins 18 games last year. Is he then considered a bust if he is an 18 game winner?
I think this year the Red Sox will be a little more careful with his pitch count and not let him throw a 110+ pitches like he did between June 5th and August 28th in 13 out of 16 starts.
I can't call anyone a bust who held opponents to a .246 batting average which was 8th best in the AL among starting pitchers.- Busted down the pretext
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Fighting Hellfish wrote:Matsuzaka was a bust.
I'll take Pettitte, Joba and Wang ove ranyone on the Sox besides Beckett and Santana
You can't be a bust after one season unless you have completely imploded.
Dice-K ERA+ in 2007: 108
Pettitte ERA+ in 2007: 110
Granted, a 108 ERA+ is not worth the money the Red Sox spent on him, but it's way too early to call him a bust.0 -
Fighting Hellfish wrote:more than $100 million for a 4.40 ERA is a bust. he might be better next year, but only if he is conditioned for a MLB season, which he clearly was not in 2007
i'm pretty sure the red sox only paid matsuzaka $6.33mil for 2007 and not "$100 million."
oh yeah, the posting $51.1mil posting fee you're going to come back to me with, yeah, that fee doesn't go to matsuzaka. it was a one time fee to his former team that doesn't count towards the luxury tax. good thing the yanks threw $26mil out the window on that kei igawa posting fee.
i would be willing to bet that now that daisuke went through a whole mlb season, he will be better prepared for 2008. going from pitching once a week with very little travel to once every 5 days with travel to and from the east coast is huge.0 -
JSBE wrote:i'm pretty sure the red sox only paid matsuzaka $6.33mil for 2007 and not "$100 million."
oh yeah, the posting $51.1mil posting fee you're going to come back to me with, yeah, that fee doesn't go to matsuzaka. it was a one time fee to his former team that doesn't count towards the luxury tax. good thing the yanks threw $26mil out the window on that kei igawa posting fee.
i would be willing to bet that now that daisuke went through a whole mlb season, he will be better prepared for 2008. going from pitching once a week with very little travel to once every 5 days with travel to and from the east coast is huge.
I'm pretty sure the Yankees got that fee back. And whether or not the $51mil went to him or not, Boston still paid that. So last year Boston spend $57mil on a sub-par pitcher.Abraham Lincoln once said, "If you are a racist, I will attack you with the North."0 -
The posting fee has to be counted. For both Igawa and Matsuzaka. It may not count toward the luxury tax, but they wouldn't have gotten him without it. Therefore it cost them $16.8 million to have him pitch for them.
And I call him a bust based more on the hype surrounding him before the season. It was like the Beatles coming over to the states for the first time. This guy has a gyroball! He doesn't ice! he can throw 200 pitches a game! he's gonna win 30 games a year! Based strictly on his numbers he was a decent back of the rotation starter for the first few months.
That and I traded Eric Byrnes to get him. Matsusucka went 7-7 w/ a 4.52 ERA for me. With him as a member of The Globex Corporation, I lost in the World Series. if he was any good, he would have brought home a championship..........0 -
Ledbetterus wrote:I'm pretty sure the Yankees got that fee back. And whether or not the $51mil went to him or not, Boston still paid that. So last year Boston spend $57mil on a sub-par pitcher.
the yankees most certainly did not get the kei igawa posting fee back.
and that would mean that the yankees spent $30mil to have a guy who was sent to the minors TWICE and only was summoned when rosters expanded.
oh and his stats: 2-3, 6.25 era, 14 games, 12 games started, 37 walks and 53k's AND they have him signed for another 4 years for $16mil which they will probably eat when the dump him on another team next year. awesome sign yankee brain trust.0 -
Fighting Hellfish wrote:The posting fee has to be counted. For both Igawa and Matsuzaka. It may not count toward the luxury tax, but they wouldn't have gotten him without it. Therefore it cost them $16.8 million to have him pitch for them.
And I call him a bust based more on the hype surrounding him before the season. It was like the Beatles coming over to the states for the first time. This guy has a gyroball! He doesn't ice! he can throw 200 pitches a game! he's gonna win 30 games a year! Based strictly on his numbers he was a decent back of the rotation starter for the first few months.
count the posting fee all you want. personally, it's a tired subject.
and you can call him a bust all you want, i had semi-realistic goals in mind and he met almost all of them, but next to your boy igawa he looks like cy young.0 -
no argument here. You know what is surprising? Supposedly there are a whole slew of teams interested in him. I think he's awful, but they'd be crazy to give up on him now. Last year he cost $30 mil, and it's $12 for the next 3 years. They need to make him a set up man, and teach him how to throw strikes. That's the best i can hope for, a halfway decent lefty specialist middle reliever.0
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hey yankee fans like my self can we say 2nd place for the next couple of seasons at least ....people pitching wins trophys not hitting .....we have lost every yr since 2000 why because we lack in pitching not hitting ....jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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josevolution wrote:hey yankee fans like my self can we say 2nd place for the next couple of seasons at least ....people pitching wins trophys not hitting .....we have lost every yr since 2000 why because we lack in pitching not hitting ....
PItching is very important and the yankees think they have something special with Hughes, Joba, & Ian. They are very reluctant to give them up because they think Hughes & Joba could anchor a staff for them for the next 10 years and Kennedy coudl be a very good as well.
Check out this from this morning
UPDATE, 12-5-07 at 8:30am: The Yankees could've had Santana for Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Marquez, and Mitch Hilligoss. Brian Cashman, however, never wanted to sacrifice Hughes for Santana and convinced his bosses that the Yankees couldn't afford him now that Andy Pettitte is in the fold. This near-trade won't be forgotten by Yankees fans, unless Hughes takes off in '08.
Cashman has a lot of faith in Hughes. This could cost him his job i would imagine if Hughes turns out to suck. Not directly cost him his job but put him in some serious hot water.
Ive always thought cahsman did fairly well when no one else was interfering with him. For him to stick his neck out there for those kids says something.
Perhaps next year they will be too young or maybe they will excel.
Anyway the news that Santanta trade to boston is dead now is the best news i've heard all day.Charlotte 00 | Charlotte 03 | Asheville 04 | Atlanta 12 | Greenville 16 | Columbia 16 |Seattle 18 | Nashville 22 | Ohana Festival 24 x2 | Atlanta 25 x20 -
josevolution wrote:hey yankee fans like my self can we say 2nd place for the next couple of seasons at least ....people pitching wins trophys not hitting .....we have lost every yr since 2000 why because we lack in pitching not hitting ....
As I've said a few times during the Santana sweepstakes: Remember when The yankees got ARod? Everyone was engraving NY Yankees on the World Series Trophies for 2004-20100 -
intodeep wrote:.
Anyway the news that Santanta trade to boston is dead now is the best news i've heard all day.
Word from jon heyman of SI is that now the Mets are in the Mix. Can't offer the quality the Yanks and Sox did, but supposedly they're offereing quantity. 4-5 prospects, no Reyes0
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