why do you believe in God or...

cornnifer wrote:

i disagree. God does teach me things. Just like my children don't understand all my lessons, or even that i'm attempting to teach them, we as humans just don't realise.
Furthermore, for billions of people worldwide who hold a theistic worldview, it isn't hard at all to believe. i understand for you, many others, it may not be so easy, but for, literally billons, it is fairly simple. Besides, i wonder, is faith supposed to be easy? If it were, what would it really mean? i would argue that it is those who have struggled with faith, and then find it, that have the strongest, most sincere faith! if God were to hand me a blu ray dvd disc containing footage of him creating the universe, wouldn't my faith have less meaning?
As far as geography, sure it has some impact on the direction one's faith takes, but, i think you generalize and over simplify it a bit. You must remember, that there are plenty of CHristians in the "Muslim world". There are plenty of Christians in the "Buddhist and Hindu worlds" just as there are plenty of Muslims right here in this part of the world. As a matter of fact, i would argue that the Christians in Afghanistan, or China are probably some of the best Christians. There faith is probably stronger than my own.
i was not born and raised a Christian. There was a time in my life when i was "searching". Looking for direction in my theistic worldview. i studied the koran a bit. i studied buddhism a bit. in college, i had a good buddy from Afghanistan, a nice Muslim lad, who invited me to mosque on several occasions. i often entertained the thought. Christianity is not something i picked from a hat or simply adopted because it was the predominant faith in my homeland.

I think your faith is in the tradition of storytelling.

cornnifer wrote:

? ? ? ? ? ?

Don't really get this.

Humans have been telling stories to each other since human's could tell stories. You are among many that have a deep appreciation for the art and tradition of storytelling.

cornnifer wrote:

Furthermore, for billions of people worldwide who hold a theistic worldview, it isn't hard at all to believe. i understand for you, many others, it may not be so easy, but for, literally billons, it is fairly simple. Besides, i wonder, is faith supposed to be easy?

How easy would it be for you to stop believing Jesus is our savior and stop believing in god, and start believing that Brahma created the world or that Allah did.

That's how easy it is for those non-christians to believe in God and accept Jesus as their savior.

As far as geography, sure it has some impact on the direction one's faith takes, but, i think you generalize and over simplify it a bit. You must remember, that there are plenty of CHristians in the "Muslim world". There are plenty of Christians in the "Buddhist and Hindu worlds" just as there are plenty of Muslims right here in this part of the world. As a matter of fact, i would argue that the Christians in Afghanistan, or China are probably some of the best Christians. There faith is probably stronger than my own.

Plenty?

Anyway, I don't disagree with what you are saying here. But deadnothingbetter said the right path is easy, that god loves us and gave us a way out, the right path through Jesus.

I said it wasn't simple at all. Again, how easy would it be for you to abandon your beliefs?

And I certainly don't think I'm oversimplifying anything. Do you think it's a coincidence that - what 95% - of the people born into christian family stay christian and that the same percentage of people who were born into muslim families stay muslim?

Do you honestly think they all considered all the possibilities, unbiased and coincidentally all found out the religion they were raised with, that's all around them, that has been part of their traditions for years is the right one?

I find that very hard to believe.

i was not born and raised a Christian. There was a time in my life when i was "searching". Looking for direction in my theistic worldview. i studied the koran a bit. i studied buddhism a bit. in college, i had a good buddy from Afghanistan, a nice Muslim lad, who invited me to mosque on several occasions. i often entertained the thought. Christianity is not something i picked from a hat or simply adopted because it was the predominant faith in my homeland.

You were already influenced by Christianity because it was the predominant faith in your homeland, whether you admit it or not. You were probably more familiar with Christianity than with any other religion - correct me if I'm wrong here, this isn't just about you of course, but about people who grew up in similar situations. Could it be that because of the ubiquity of Christianity in your country, you were more open to it?

It's a question.

And also, how can you know you picked the right one, you said you studied the other ones a bit. That doesn't really sound fair. Why not study them as thoroughly as you studied Christianity.

Collin wrote:

How easy would it be for you to stop believing Jesus is our savior and stop believing in god, and start believing that Brahma created the world or that Allah did.

That's how easy it is for those non-christians to believe in God and accept Jesus as their savior.



Plenty?

Anyway, I don't disagree with what you are saying here. But deadnothingbetter said the right path is easy, that god loves us and gave us a way out, the right path through Jesus.

I said it wasn't simple at all. Again, how easy would it be for you to abandon your beliefs?

And I certainly don't think I'm oversimplifying anything. Do you think it's a coincidence that - what 95% - of the people born into christian family stay christian and that the same percentage of people who were born into muslim families stay muslim?

Do you honestly think they all considered all the possibilities, unbiased and coincidentally all found out the religion they were raised with, that's all around them, that has been part of their traditions for years is the right one?

I find that very hard to believe.



You were already influenced by Christianity because it was the predominant faith in your homeland, whether you admit it or not. You were probably more familiar with Christianity than with any other religion - correct me if I'm wrong here, this isn't just about you of course, but about people who grew up in similar situations. Could it be that because of the ubiquity of Christianity in your country, you were more open to it?

It's a question.

And also, how can you know you picked the right one, you said you studied the other ones a bit. That doesn't really sound fair. Why not study them as thoroughly as you studied Christianity.

i wish i knew how to do that break up a post and respond piece by piece thing, but i don't. i'll start by saying that you are misundrstood about me. in fact, i rejected Christianity throughout most of my formative years. i was more verbally critical of it than you are now. If i was in fact influenced, it was in the opposite direction.

As far as the other stuff, it all starts with faith. Muslims believe God created the universe. They call him Allah. Christians believe God created the Universe, the call him, amomgst other things, God. God, Allah, Jehovah, etc. all different names for the same being. That is not where beliefs differ.

Collin wrote:

See, I'm speaking in the context of reality. The bible does make it sound easy to get into heaven, but it's not easy.

i understand you... and i'm not taking away that right from you or condemning it. true... the bible makes it sound easy, and it's not easy.

i know that you speak in the context of reality... my only intentions were to point out where soulsinging was reading into the bible wrong. kinda twisting it a bit...

So my point is, no it's not easy and I'm saying this because you said it was. Sure it's easy when you are born into a Christian family or grew up with Christian values, it's not easy when you were born into a muslim family.

what i meant by easy... was in context of the bible. meaning that God's only favor that he asks of you is to believe and that's all it's required to get into heaven. of course, we can go on for hours on this dispute... but in the end, all it's asking is to believe... then you go to heaven. there's no labor... no nothing. that's what i meant by easy.

That is a fact, the rest is not.

I never said the rest is. i was referring to the problems we face in our daily life... those things are what the bible calls an effect of sin.... of course, i can't prove it to you... but at least we can both agree that we struggle in our daily living.

So he's only responsible for a few things, conveniently, the good things?

He's responsible for everythign created. but let's get back into the context... he's not responsible for the choices that we make... ultimately the choices we make lead to perishable things.

You said he didn't mean things to be this way. Obviously he did.

you ask, how can God be all knowing and all powerful and yet not be responsible?

my question to you is how does it default God as being responsible simply because he's all knowing and all powerful? he's given me choices in life and nothing good or nothing bad is debted to him... simply the opportunity that he's allowed for me to make those choices.

That's all fine and dandy when you're a Christian.

of course.

I can't agree with the statement that all beliefs make perfect sense.

you can't agree that all religions make sense in the context of the religion? i dunno... i mean, to me it really doesn't matter. it's not like i question the dali lama and his beliefs... and i'm sure it all makes sense in the context of the faith. it doesn't mean i believe it.

this may have been asked before but i'm not reading back through this whole thread. to those that believe in god: if god gave us the brains to use reason and logic why would he/she/it want us to suspend that reason and logic in order to have faith in it's existance? and who would want to go to a heaven full of unresonable, illogical people?

prism wrote:

this may have been asked before but i'm not reading back through this whole thread. to those that believe in god: if god gave us the brains to use reason and logic why would he/she/it want us to suspend that reason and logic in order to have faith in it's existance? and who would want to go to a heaven full of unresonable, illogical people?

i haven't suspended my logic...

i use it everyday... in my living... even to understand the concepts of God.

catefrances wrote:

but perhaps if God had shown compassion towards cain, things might have turned out different.
and how was cain's heart already corrupted? up until the point where he killed his brother, he'd done nothing wrong. nor was it even suggested that he had.

compassion? what do you mean? all he did was deny his offering... maybe cain should've gone and take a breath of fresh air and cooled off a bit, then make another one that came from the heart.

it's like if someone were to call you a pal only because it benefits them... you'd probably deny their friendship and think that it's fake. then find a real friend who is a genuine person. it wouldn't be your fault if the other person gets jealous and does something psychotic like kill your friend, would it?

the fact that he was feeling insecure cause his offering wasn't accepted is evidence enough that suggests he wasn't already there in the head...

catefrances wrote:

i was thinking that perhaps this was a test for cain. which obviuosly he failed. i just didn't get why God rejected cain's offering and then went and accepted abel's. and then had the hide to ask cain what was wrong, when clearly he already knew what the problem was. i guess i'm not getting the whole lack of respect to cain thing. as far as i can see cain made his offering in good faith. but then as i said before, perhaps it was a test, cause surely God knew of cain's nature.

God asked cain what was wrong before he murdered his brother... so in that case, he was simply asking cain, "what are you getting mad for? and what's with the long face? if you do things the right way then wouldn't you be accepted? and if you don't do well, then sin is in your heart." Genesis 4:6,7 (paraphrased in my version )

i mean, it's basically it... that's why his offering wasn't accepted because his heart was already in sin... he probably had other bad things pending... he must've been jealous of his brother his entire life. that jealousy grew into bitterness, then rage, then murder. God knew what was already in his heart. how would god accept his sacrifice if he can't settle his disputes with his brother? obviously he had issues with his brother. that doesn't sound like an offering made in good faith when you hate your own brother.