i would be absolutely grief stricken. Heartbroken. i would still love them. They would still be dead by their own course of action.
Not sure what point your trying to make here. Actually, i think i see the point your TRYING to make, it just doesn't work.
im saying would you forgive them for it and welcome them back into your home when they came, or would you turn your back and shut the door in their face when they came to your place looking for shelter? cos a few people here have already made it clear that god would do the latter.
well, okay, that's your opinion... if he's an asshole god to you then so he is... i'm not going to try and change that for you. but the least you can say is that your interpretations of this biblical god are completely off the mark. you said that he condemns you because you don't accept jesus. i'm telling you we condemned ourselves prior to even denying jesus... in biblical context, yes indeed my friend... no matter how you twist it, that's how the story goes.
no, they are not. i interpret the bible's message correctly. ive studied the shit for 14 years of my life and am well aware of the little bullshit dances you guys like to do to try to avoid acknowledging the absurd contradictions in your theology. just becos you think my conclusion (god's a douche) is wrong does not make my reading of the facts wrong, as i will show in the next paragraph.
i get your point, but you're missing mine completely. edit: (i forgot to address this completely) the bible also says, "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:19,20 if you have issues with that scripture, their your own completely... i'm going to stress the importance that i got no business on that matter... that's all i know.
this makes no sense. what does that even mean and how does it rebut my contention? some people will flat out never know who jesus is. others will know only that he's a religious figure in christianity. so they're fucked for not accepting a fairy tale they never even knew existed?
wow, so you'll never get sick and die? you don't have problems? financial? emotional?
although, i find this world to be a beatiful place to... aside that fact, there's a lot of sad things... c'mon you know it's true too...
i will. but why is death such a horrible and awful thing? shit man, you've got heaven, why are you scared? nothing about death scares me and sure there is pain and suffering, but i don't think that is a sign of imperfection in the least becos this world and everything in it are not about perfection.
again, no, it wasn't god who decided it this way, "in my religion", at least. you got it wrong. god used jesus as another alternative to save humanity... god never intruded in humanity's will so he tried many ways by giving humans a choice a way to salvation. christ was the ultimate and last alternative. do you see what i'm saying? it's very different from what you say... true, salvation is only found in jesus christ... i'm not denying that... what i'm saying is that god didn't plan it to be this way... based on our choices we made, it led god to find a way to regain humanity. if you think god is still an "asshole" for being taht way... well, i guess... you must know a better way to save humanity, dontcha?
again: yes, it was. i do know a better way to save humanity. how about, instead of murdering an innocent man, god's own son, and saying the only way into heaven is through abject worship of this man (seems dangerously close to a violation of the 10 commandments to me)... instead of this, god says "ok guys, adam and eve fucked up, but i love you all and i will forgive you all for it so as long as you don't fuck up like they did, you get into heaven."
you're far from winning... i won it a long time ago.
of course, which is why your posts have gone unchallenged and changed so many people's minds. even some of your fellow believers are unwilling to subscribe to your enthusiasm for damnation.
no, they are not. i interpret the bible's message correctly. ive studied the shit for 14 years of my life and am well aware of the little bullshit dances you guys like to do to try to avoid acknowledging the absurd contradictions in your theology. just becos you think my conclusion (god's a douche) is wrong does not make my reading of the facts wrong, as i will show in the next paragraph.
you haven't even provided biblical texts to support these claims... you've read the bible, right? didn't you read the part about how adam and eve sinned in the garden of eden? and how god tried to keep in communication in humanity but they kept going their own way? so he tried noah, then he tried abraham, then the prophets.... ultimately just settled for the last and ultimate choice, jesus? i think you're the one that's giving me these little dances...
this makes no sense. what does that even mean and how does it rebut my contention? some people will flat out never know who jesus is. others will know only that he's a religious figure in christianity. so they're fucked for not accepting a fairy tale they never even knew existed?
maybe i'll give you a different version... 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
i will. but why is death such a horrible and awful thing? shit man, you've got heaven, why are you scared? nothing about death scares me and sure there is pain and suffering, but i don't think that is a sign of imperfection in the least becos this world and everything in it are not about perfection.
hahaha ok, seriously, tho.... the world and everything not about perfection is just an idealogy of your own... i can't prove to you that this world, or universe, is meant to be perfect... all i can say is that's what the bible claims. so all i'm saying is that our suffering is described by the bible as a cause and effect of sin. that's all. i'm not saying it as a fact. i'm saying that the FACT that you suffer and die are causes of sin, according to the bible.
again: yes, it was. i do know a better way to save humanity. how about, instead of murdering an innocent man, god's own son, and saying the only way into heaven is through abject worship of this man (seems dangerously close to a violation of the 10 commandments to me)... instead of this, god says "ok guys, adam and eve fucked up, but i love you all and i will forgive you all for it so as long as you don't fuck up like they did, you get into heaven."
and again, if yes, where? i've provided a lot to show it wasn't.... i think you forgot to include an alternative to saving humanity edit: no, sorry, you did in your last quote... i didn't read it right. but that's just the thing, we fuck up all the time like adam and eve... and sometimes even worse... it's like a part of our nature. that's what you don't understand about the concept sin.
of course, which is why your posts have gone unchallenged and changed so many people's minds. even some of your fellow believers are unwilling to subscribe to your enthusiasm for damnation.
I ain't even trying to convince anybody yo. i'm only trying to make you understand this part of the bible... and you're unwilling to admit that you're not even intrepreting the message right, be it a fairy tale, or whatever, you're not interpreting it right.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
and you're unwilling to admit that you're not even intrepreting the message right, be it a fairy tale, or whatever, you're not interpreting it right.
and there in lies the problem....you have to stretch, finagle, infer, read into it, not read into it...etc to make this fable seem somewhat remotely believable.
It boggles the mind how some work sooo hard to maintain this feeling of security, feeling special.
That is not the context. The parable is saying that you are responsible for what you do and if you do nothing (in re: to God) you will be punished by God. God, I don't believe, will ask believers to do this, b/c if he did it would be asking Christians to Murder. Also, dealing with the end times is very controversial, even amongst Christians, as you should know. There are many views. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology http://www.jesuswalk.com/lessons/19_11-27.htm
The listeners in Jericho recalled how King Archelaus slaughtered his enemies, and recognized how the parable was true to life.
This verse you quote is most likely to drive the point home of judgement, and was given as something they could relate to in theory, not an implicit command to Christians.
So, when the bible contradicts itself, you can just claim the contradiction is a "parable" and wasn't meant to be taken literally? This is my precise point... This is the sheer and utter danger of the Christian religion.
and there in lies the problem....you have to stretch, finagle, infer, read into it, not read into it...etc to make this fable seem somewhat remotely believable.
It boggles the mind how some work sooo hard to maintain this feeling of security, feeling special.
More power to you though...what ever it takes.
peace
all it takes is reading... and reading it right. just like any other book. and still not even trying to make it sound believable... just a story that can make sense.
how many books have you read in a lifetime?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So, when the bible contradicts itself, you can just claim the contradiction is a "parable" and wasn't meant to be taken literally? This is my precise point... This is the sheer and utter danger of the Christian religion.
what part of the definition of the word parable do you not understand?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So, when the bible contradicts itself, you can just claim the contradiction is a "parable" and wasn't meant to be taken literally? This is my precise point... This is the sheer and utter danger of the Christian religion.
Life contradicts itself. Life is full of absurdities and paradoxes. That is its nature. What you are looking for is satisfaction of your logical awareness which is independent of the whole and Truth of life. Even in the logical discipline of quantum physics, paradoxes, contradictions and absurdities are known and accepted as existing in order to appreciate the depths of natural principles.
The logical, linear view provides us a map for the territory. However, when you confuse the map or the symbols, which merely represent the Truth, to BE the truth, the problem is in your methods, not with spirituality, itself.
The bible is meant to be read with whole and integrated intelligence, which includes our intuitive and emotional intelligences (heart and spirit) alongside logic. Therefore, we can appreciate truths whole-istically.
On the other hand, we can use logic to "prove" or "justify" anything we like. If our logic is detached of the "whole", whether in our intelligences, or in reality, it will be also detached of realism.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Life contradicts itself. Life is full of absurdities and paradoxes. That is its nature. What you are looking for is satisfaction of your logical awareness which is independent of the whole and Truth of life. Even in the logical discipline of quantum physics, paradoxes, contradictions and absurdities are known and accepted as existing in order to appreciate the depths of natural principles.
The logical, linear view provides us a map for the territory. However, when you confuse the map or the symbols, which merely represent the Truth, to BE the truth, the problem is in your methods, not with spirituality, itself.
The bible is meant to be read with whole and integrated intelligence, which includes our intuitive and emotional intelligences (heart and spirit) alongside logic. Therefore, we can appreciate truths whole-istically.
On the other hand, we can use logic to "prove" or "justify" anything we like. If our logic is detached of the "whole", whether in our intelligences, or in reality, it will be also detached of realism.
or you can just try and understand that a parable is just a story not meant to be taken literally
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
The entire thing. i suggest dropping this one. *sigh*
yeah, i think you're right. sometimes i think people just argue for the sake of arguing.... out of all the greater arguments they can find they settle for a little minor dispute that makes no sense.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
or you can just try and understand that a parable is just a story not meant to be taken literally
A parable represents the wholeness of a situation--it goes where logic, alone, cannot.
If someone chooses to hear and see with logic, alone, and not with integrated awareness, they cannot grasp the value of a parable, metaphor, analogy etc.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
A parable represents the wholeness of a situation--it goes where logic, alone, cannot.
If someone chooses to hear and see with logic, alone, and not with integrated awareness, they cannot grasp the value of a parable, metaphor, analogy etc.
ok... i see what you mean... but right now that doesn't matter to an atheist... save alone, even to someone who doesn't believe in the bible.
i think apart from getting into the whole philosophical and depth of the discussion, it's much easier just to explain that a parable is simply a story to try to explain the spiritual sense. if they're willing to understand that then maybe they'll grasp the value, metaphor and analogy part.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Well I do believe in God, because I've seen and felt it in life.
Now some people talking about the Bible, the way I feel is most of it has an original truth but through time has been minced through peoples minds by their own opinions and such. Plus the fact that the Bible was put together by the catholic church (although I dont know the actual date). some books were included some were not. but I dont think its even remotely the most important part. Now when you think about the whole "Big bang or Inteligent design" Its not hard for me to think that perhaps God made the big bang happen! But anyway thats just me.
God (whether he exists or not) has definatelly been a positive source of inspiration and creativity for many. Any Marvin Gaye fans? The liner notes for the excellent album, 'Whats Going On' say "Marvin always felt this work was a gift from God, and every nore vibrates with this conviction and inspiration."
Is Marvin playing down his own natural talent as a singer here, or does God really jam? It's interesting to think that if it wasn't for his faith, we wouldn't have this amazing political, revolutionary album to listen to.
I acknowledge that religion offers comfort and direction but i'm just as clueless about the origin of the universe as anybody else is and life just keeps me guessing - that's why i can't accept such a simple solution as creationism. There are cobwebs in my mind over this issue. I think religion works for so many people because it simplifies things and clears the cobwebs for them. Maybe life is meaningless, and the purpose of humans is to give it meaning ourselves.
I dont know if there is a God or not and I do not know why I dont know. Sometimes I see things so mindblowing that I swear some super human power must have had a hand in their awesomeness, but then I see some things that are so totally unfair and awful that I just cannot believe in a God looking after us.
I just try to live a good life, have patience, be honest, and treat others the way I want to be treated. If that fits into a relegion, so be it.
I do not live the way I live thinking that I will be rewarded or punished by a superme something when I die.
I live as if this life is all I will ever have, and I am fine with that. I imagine death is like that moment just as you fall asleep; nothingness never remembered.
Unlike some others, I understand those who believe and are comforted by relegion. Almost wish I could believe. It must be so comforting when someone very dear to you passes and you still long for them that you want to know there is somewhere you will see them again, and I hope this belief some have IS true. I just dont see it that way.
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
or you can just try and understand that a parable is just a story not meant to be taken literally
I suggest you take your own advice and realise the whole Bible is just a story not meant to be taken literally. It's a guidebook to keep a particlular civilization together thousands of years ago.
Time for a new guidebook. Chapter One: There is no God.
maybe i'll give you a different version... 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
this still answers nothing. how about you tell me in your own words instead of hiding behind scripture passages you seem to know don't prove shit with respect to your point. how is a person raised in aboriginal australia supposed to become a christian? how is a poor old man in rural india who has never heard of anything aside from the hinduism his ancestors have believed for a thousand years supposed to suddenly learn about jesus and jump on the bandwagon? or is it just a subtle way for you and your kind to convince yourselves white, anglo-saxon people are superior to everyone else due to god inserting his religion into our culture, but not indian or chinese culture?
and again, if yes, where? i've provided a lot to show it wasn't.... i think you forgot to include an alternative to saving humanity edit: no, sorry, you did in your last quote... i didn't read it right. but that's just the thing, we fuck up all the time like adam and eve... and sometimes even worse... it's like a part of our nature. that's what you don't understand about the concept sin.
this is a bullshit cop out and you know it. god could have done whatever he damn well pleased. in your religion, he decided everyone would pay for the sins of adam and eve. he could simply have forgiven original sin and wiped the slate clean and let everyone sin and be forgiven on their own merits. instead, he made original sin stick to every human ever, said he'd make us all damned for the first humans' mistake. then it is OUR fault jesus had to die? is god not powerful enough to have forgiven original sin without that?
I ain't even trying to convince anybody yo. i'm only trying to make you understand this part of the bible... and you're unwilling to admit that you're not even intrepreting the message right, be it a fairy tale, or whatever, you're not interpreting it right.
i am interpreting it right. im just saying it seems like a dick move to me. if god is all-powerful as christianity claims, he could make things easier for humans, he could forgive with a wave of his hand. but he chooses not to. that isn't love... it's legal technicalities.
ironic tht when this thread started i was talking about my belief in god.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, I mean, we like to put human characteristics to the Universe. But the universe is organized by a set of laws, which aren't anything tangible. So what I mean is, this God figure, is likely just a set of laws that regulates how things interact. Laws are not objects and they are not forces either. So besides being laws, they are nothing.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I suggest you take your own advice and realise the whole Bible is just a story not meant to be taken literally. It's a guidebook to keep a particlular civilization together thousands of years ago.
Time for a new guidebook. Chapter One: There is no God.
i suggest you respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
this still answers nothing. how about you tell me in your own words instead of hiding behind scripture passages you seem to know don't prove shit with respect to your point. how is a person raised in aboriginal australia supposed to become a christian? how is a poor old man in rural india who has never heard of anything aside from the hinduism his ancestors have believed for a thousand years supposed to suddenly learn about jesus and jump on the bandwagon? or is it just a subtle way for you and your kind to convince yourselves white, anglo-saxon people are superior to everyone else due to god inserting his religion into our culture, but not indian or chinese culture?
this is a bullshit cop out and you know it. god could have done whatever he damn well pleased. in your religion, he decided everyone would pay for the sins of adam and eve. he could simply have forgiven original sin and wiped the slate clean and let everyone sin and be forgiven on their own merits. instead, he made original sin stick to every human ever, said he'd make us all damned for the first humans' mistake. then it is OUR fault jesus had to die? is god not powerful enough to have forgiven original sin without that?
i am interpreting it right. im just saying it seems like a dick move to me. if god is all-powerful as christianity claims, he could make things easier for humans, he could forgive with a wave of his hand. but he chooses not to. that isn't love... it's legal technicalities.
ironic tht when this thread started i was talking about my belief in god.
i'll respond later... i gotta get back to work.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
i suggest you respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.
Respect is earned and modern religion certainly has not earned anyone's respect. It's a huge money making scam run by power hungry individuals who couldn't live by the morals they preach if thier fortunes depended on it.
Profound, Ahnimus, and correct, too. That's why Buddhism aspires to the state of nothing. MU: no self, no ego, no permanence. Every"thing" is an illusion. Any"thing" that arises eventually falls away. All that remains, always, is what's eternal. And it's here right now in the inner worlds--eternally. Awareness. Beingness. The "I am that I am". ...Invisibly...
According to physicist David Bohm, we have an "unknown and undescribable totality". He refers to this as the "holomovement". It is apparently unknown and undescribable.
My spiritual experiences have been with "no" thing. They were otherworldly and there are not words or symbols here to represent what is not of this world. The key here is that a word such as "God" is a symbol. as are all these words. The reality represented by the words is far beyond the words, themselves, and our comprehension, as well. During some of my spiritual experiences, I have been shown otherworldly energy that brought me to my knees in humility, sobbing. What I experienced was so stunning. And still, as it sunk into my mind, I lost the reality of what I experienced.
What remains is the dramatic ways this "know"ledge has filtered into my own being.
"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced, there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religous man". ~ Albert Einstein
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Respect is earned and modern religion certainly has not earned anyone's respect. It's a huge money making scam run by power hungry individuals who couldn't live by the morals they preach if thier fortunes depended on it.
yeah, you're pretty out of it dude... you lack social skills or somethin....
i live a simple life, take a day at a time... work full-time, go to school and every step i take i try and make the moments valuable for myself and those around me... i don't spend anytime giving my 2 cents, or brainwashing people with my beliefs, or political agendas...
you need to get your perspectives straight at addressing your issues you have against religions. not everybody imposes their beliefs on others, and so far, i've tried my best to be that person. i don't claim to know more than you, don't claim to be holier than you, don't claim anything. i only have my beliefs, and my beliefs are rightly earned at the first signs of breathe... just like you... so one more time my friend. respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.
as far as i'm concerned, religion has nothing to do with my beliefs.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
what part of the definition of the word parable do you not understand?
Okay, I will use a more simple example of contradiction in the bible. David kills Goliath, and cuts off his head... God instills in him the power to do this. Why would God empower David to kill Goliath if he teaches that "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... and if you say that God didn't empower him to do so, but just allowed it, then why did God allow this story to be in the Bible, as it promotes something he created laws against? After all it is the inspired word of God is it not?
Here is another contradiction. Jesus preaches about forgiveness, but in the end days he will throw all of the non-believers into a lake of fire where they will experience an ETERNITY of TORTURE! Please explain.
Profound, Ahnimus, and correct, too. That's why Buddhism aspires to the state of nothing. MU: no self, no ego, no permanence. Every"thing" is an illusion. Any"thing" that arises eventually falls away. All that remains, always, is what's eternal. And it's here right now in the inner worlds--eternally. Awareness. Beingness. The "I am that I am". ...Invisibly...
According to physicist David Bohm, we have an "unknown and undescribable totality". He refers to this as the "holomovement". It is apparently unknown and undescribable.
My spiritual experiences have been with "no" thing. They were otherworldly and there are not words or symbols here to represent what is not of this world. The key here is that a word such as "God" is a symbol. as are all these words. The reality represented by the words is far beyond the words, themselves, and our comprehension, as well. During some of my spiritual experiences, I have been shown otherworldly energy that brought me to my knees in humility, sobbing. What I experienced was so stunning. And still, as it sunk into my mind, I lost the reality of what I experienced.
What remains is the dramatic ways this "know"ledge has filtered into my own being.
"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced, there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religous man". ~ Albert Einstein
how can one experience no thing?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
im saying would you forgive them for it and welcome them back into your home when they came, or would you turn your back and shut the door in their face when they came to your place looking for shelter? cos a few people here have already made it clear that god would do the latter.
no, they are not. i interpret the bible's message correctly. ive studied the shit for 14 years of my life and am well aware of the little bullshit dances you guys like to do to try to avoid acknowledging the absurd contradictions in your theology. just becos you think my conclusion (god's a douche) is wrong does not make my reading of the facts wrong, as i will show in the next paragraph.
this makes no sense. what does that even mean and how does it rebut my contention? some people will flat out never know who jesus is. others will know only that he's a religious figure in christianity. so they're fucked for not accepting a fairy tale they never even knew existed?
i will. but why is death such a horrible and awful thing? shit man, you've got heaven, why are you scared? nothing about death scares me and sure there is pain and suffering, but i don't think that is a sign of imperfection in the least becos this world and everything in it are not about perfection.
again: yes, it was. i do know a better way to save humanity. how about, instead of murdering an innocent man, god's own son, and saying the only way into heaven is through abject worship of this man (seems dangerously close to a violation of the 10 commandments to me)... instead of this, god says "ok guys, adam and eve fucked up, but i love you all and i will forgive you all for it so as long as you don't fuck up like they did, you get into heaven."
of course, which is why your posts have gone unchallenged and changed so many people's minds. even some of your fellow believers are unwilling to subscribe to your enthusiasm for damnation.
maybe i'll give you a different version... 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
hahaha ok, seriously, tho.... the world and everything not about perfection is just an idealogy of your own... i can't prove to you that this world, or universe, is meant to be perfect... all i can say is that's what the bible claims. so all i'm saying is that our suffering is described by the bible as a cause and effect of sin. that's all. i'm not saying it as a fact. i'm saying that the FACT that you suffer and die are causes of sin, according to the bible.
and again, if yes, where? i've provided a lot to show it wasn't.... i think you forgot to include an alternative to saving humanity edit: no, sorry, you did in your last quote... i didn't read it right. but that's just the thing, we fuck up all the time like adam and eve... and sometimes even worse... it's like a part of our nature. that's what you don't understand about the concept sin.
I ain't even trying to convince anybody yo. i'm only trying to make you understand this part of the bible... and you're unwilling to admit that you're not even intrepreting the message right, be it a fairy tale, or whatever, you're not interpreting it right.
and there in lies the problem....you have to stretch, finagle, infer, read into it, not read into it...etc to make this fable seem somewhat remotely believable.
It boggles the mind how some work sooo hard to maintain this feeling of security, feeling special.
More power to you though...what ever it takes.
peace
So, when the bible contradicts itself, you can just claim the contradiction is a "parable" and wasn't meant to be taken literally? This is my precise point... This is the sheer and utter danger of the Christian religion.
how many books have you read in a lifetime?
The logical, linear view provides us a map for the territory. However, when you confuse the map or the symbols, which merely represent the Truth, to BE the truth, the problem is in your methods, not with spirituality, itself.
The bible is meant to be read with whole and integrated intelligence, which includes our intuitive and emotional intelligences (heart and spirit) alongside logic. Therefore, we can appreciate truths whole-istically.
On the other hand, we can use logic to "prove" or "justify" anything we like. If our logic is detached of the "whole", whether in our intelligences, or in reality, it will be also detached of realism.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The entire thing. i suggest dropping this one. *sigh*
If someone chooses to hear and see with logic, alone, and not with integrated awareness, they cannot grasp the value of a parable, metaphor, analogy etc.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i think apart from getting into the whole philosophical and depth of the discussion, it's much easier just to explain that a parable is simply a story to try to explain the spiritual sense. if they're willing to understand that then maybe they'll grasp the value, metaphor and analogy part.
Now some people talking about the Bible, the way I feel is most of it has an original truth but through time has been minced through peoples minds by their own opinions and such. Plus the fact that the Bible was put together by the catholic church (although I dont know the actual date). some books were included some were not. but I dont think its even remotely the most important part. Now when you think about the whole "Big bang or Inteligent design" Its not hard for me to think that perhaps God made the big bang happen!
"Its a secret to everybody."
Is Marvin playing down his own natural talent as a singer here, or does God really jam? It's interesting to think that if it wasn't for his faith, we wouldn't have this amazing political, revolutionary album to listen to.
I acknowledge that religion offers comfort and direction but i'm just as clueless about the origin of the universe as anybody else is and life just keeps me guessing - that's why i can't accept such a simple solution as creationism. There are cobwebs in my mind over this issue. I think religion works for so many people because it simplifies things and clears the cobwebs for them. Maybe life is meaningless, and the purpose of humans is to give it meaning ourselves.
I just try to live a good life, have patience, be honest, and treat others the way I want to be treated. If that fits into a relegion, so be it.
I do not live the way I live thinking that I will be rewarded or punished by a superme something when I die.
I live as if this life is all I will ever have, and I am fine with that. I imagine death is like that moment just as you fall asleep; nothingness never remembered.
Unlike some others, I understand those who believe and are comforted by relegion. Almost wish I could believe. It must be so comforting when someone very dear to you passes and you still long for them that you want to know there is somewhere you will see them again, and I hope this belief some have IS true. I just dont see it that way.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I suggest you take your own advice and realise the whole Bible is just a story not meant to be taken literally. It's a guidebook to keep a particlular civilization together thousands of years ago.
Time for a new guidebook. Chapter One: There is no God.
this still answers nothing. how about you tell me in your own words instead of hiding behind scripture passages you seem to know don't prove shit with respect to your point. how is a person raised in aboriginal australia supposed to become a christian? how is a poor old man in rural india who has never heard of anything aside from the hinduism his ancestors have believed for a thousand years supposed to suddenly learn about jesus and jump on the bandwagon? or is it just a subtle way for you and your kind to convince yourselves white, anglo-saxon people are superior to everyone else due to god inserting his religion into our culture, but not indian or chinese culture?
this is a bullshit cop out and you know it. god could have done whatever he damn well pleased. in your religion, he decided everyone would pay for the sins of adam and eve. he could simply have forgiven original sin and wiped the slate clean and let everyone sin and be forgiven on their own merits. instead, he made original sin stick to every human ever, said he'd make us all damned for the first humans' mistake. then it is OUR fault jesus had to die? is god not powerful enough to have forgiven original sin without that?
i am interpreting it right. im just saying it seems like a dick move to me. if god is all-powerful as christianity claims, he could make things easier for humans, he could forgive with a wave of his hand. but he chooses not to. that isn't love... it's legal technicalities.
ironic tht when this thread started i was talking about my belief in god.
I just love this...no...thing...
Yea, I mean, we like to put human characteristics to the Universe. But the universe is organized by a set of laws, which aren't anything tangible. So what I mean is, this God figure, is likely just a set of laws that regulates how things interact. Laws are not objects and they are not forces either. So besides being laws, they are nothing.
Respect is earned and modern religion certainly has not earned anyone's respect. It's a huge money making scam run by power hungry individuals who couldn't live by the morals they preach if thier fortunes depended on it.
According to physicist David Bohm, we have an "unknown and undescribable totality". He refers to this as the "holomovement". It is apparently unknown and undescribable.
My spiritual experiences have been with "no" thing. They were otherworldly and there are not words or symbols here to represent what is not of this world. The key here is that a word such as "God" is a symbol. as are all these words. The reality represented by the words is far beyond the words, themselves, and our comprehension, as well. During some of my spiritual experiences, I have been shown otherworldly energy that brought me to my knees in humility, sobbing. What I experienced was so stunning. And still, as it sunk into my mind, I lost the reality of what I experienced.
What remains is the dramatic ways this "know"ledge has filtered into my own being.
"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced, there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religous man". ~ Albert Einstein
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i live a simple life, take a day at a time... work full-time, go to school and every step i take i try and make the moments valuable for myself and those around me... i don't spend anytime giving my 2 cents, or brainwashing people with my beliefs, or political agendas...
you need to get your perspectives straight at addressing your issues you have against religions. not everybody imposes their beliefs on others, and so far, i've tried my best to be that person. i don't claim to know more than you, don't claim to be holier than you, don't claim anything. i only have my beliefs, and my beliefs are rightly earned at the first signs of breathe... just like you... so one more time my friend. respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.
as far as i'm concerned, religion has nothing to do with my beliefs.
Okay, I will use a more simple example of contradiction in the bible. David kills Goliath, and cuts off his head... God instills in him the power to do this. Why would God empower David to kill Goliath if he teaches that "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... and if you say that God didn't empower him to do so, but just allowed it, then why did God allow this story to be in the Bible, as it promotes something he created laws against? After all it is the inspired word of God is it not?
Here is another contradiction. Jesus preaches about forgiveness, but in the end days he will throw all of the non-believers into a lake of fire where they will experience an ETERNITY of TORTURE! Please explain.
how can one experience no thing?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say