Do you believe in fate?

12467…17

Comments

  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    but will you? if you do there was something in your past that helped you make that choice.....can see it now.....Jan 15th and we get that rare blast of cold air...and my buddy deadnothingbetter say's..." I'll show that bastard on PJ board...I'm wearing a T-Shirt today, I'm in control" well not really....my memory to you....the past had you freeze you butt off.
    of course i will, if i love the cold weather i will. see, it can go like this... one day it's cold and i say, "ooh it's chilly... let me get a coat." next day it's cold again then i say, "oooh it's still chilly.... i'm not wearing a coat this time. i love this weather." it's all choice.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    yeah, exactly... everything is random to me, so i enjoy it's randomness... or try my best. i'll only go as far to say that everything that happens in life can work for a good cause... no matter what. but to say that everything is predetermined for me is too far out.

    i don't know what you mean by the stark reply's to my posts... you mean the one you said about why i believe in god??? the weird one that said, "it's okay... it's okayyayyya"
    yea that was the one...I was pretty condescending...which wasn't necessary...course my boss was pissing me off and then I see a religious post and unload.....not justifiably (this a word?)
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    I've not read or done any research on my position and should....can maybe kinda see if one could get into a place of blocking out all inputs, not that I know if and how that's acheived, maybe there's a possibility of getting to now....but as soon as you start thinking.....BAM past.
    It's actually not about blocking the inputs. It's about focussing on what's behind them. An analogy is in looking at the sky. Our thoughts are like clouds, floating in and out. The blue of the sky is the background awareness that our thoughts cross. When we focus on the wholeness, and the blue of the sky, we're still aware of the clouds. We don't consider ourselves the clouds, though.

    Some people meditate for years to learn to stay in such states. I have meditated for years, and I've learned to do it in day to day--where I don't identify with my thoughts. And I just exist in awareness. I go in and out of these states. I constantly develop my discipline to stay in such states for longer and longer periods of time.

    Most people today think they ARE their thoughts. And it's just not true. We are beings. We are bodies. We are an energy base that the thoughts arise from. We have sensations all throughout our bodies. We're buzzing with life energy. Our thoughts are merely the running commentary of what is. What is exists like the sky beyond the clouds (our thoughts).
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    yea that was the one...I was pretty condescending...which wasn't necessary...course my boss was pissing me off and then I see a religious post and unload.....not justifiably (this a word?)
    well, all i can say is, "it' okay... it's okayyyay... it's okayyayayyay" cause afterall i came back with a good response ;)
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Juberoo
    Juberoo Posts: 472
    No, I believe in coincidence.
    Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.

    A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.

    Pro-life by choice.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Hmmm.

    I'm reading a lot of stuff here that just doesn't make any sense.

    Physics is not random. There is nothing truly random. A coin-toss is not random, nor is the tiniest quantum fluctuation. Besides, randomness isn't a problem for fate.

    "We" or "You" are a pack of neurons (Francis Crick). You aren't in a position to move the universe, you are subject to the laws of the universe and the complex interaction of nerve cells.

    There are many ways to look at fate/destiny. Keep at it though.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • jamtemplechains
    jamtemplechains Posts: 117
    well this thread is certainly interesting for conversational purposes, but people should cool it trying to 'prove' this one way or the other. it's like asking 'is love at first sight real?' purely subjective.
    yeah, people are subjected to the laws and restrictions of their environment, but peoples' environment is also subject to changes and effects as a result of actions made by the people. as insignificant and minute as we all are (as individuals AND as a whole), we still choose. and choice may very well be affected by past experiences, but i don't think that qualifies these choices to be referred to as 'fate,' but just choices that are being made because of memories of choices made in the past that achieved a postive result. it seems just as likely to me that life is a tale told by an idiot, in which we're all running around and bumping into eachother, as it does there is some cosmic force directing us all. i mean, look at the mess of a world we live in...would some greater force and forger of paths seriously be so bad at leading us all along? lol
    Do you see the way that tree bends?
    Does it inspire?
    Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
    A lesson to be applied.

    Best night of my life. . .
    Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.

    myspace.com/justonemorebottle
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    jamtemplechains wrote:
    well this thread is certainly interesting for conversational purposes, but people should cool it trying to 'prove' this one way or the other. it's like asking 'is love at first sight real?' purely subjective.
    yeah, people are subjected to the laws and restrictions of their environment, but peoples' environment is also subject to changes and effects as a result of actions made by the people. as insignificant and minute as we all are (as individuals AND as a whole), we still choose. and choice may very well be affected by past experiences, but i don't think that qualifies these choices to be referred to as 'fate,' but just choices that are being made because of memories of choices made in the past that achieved a postive result. it seems just as likely to me that life is a tale told by an idiot, in which we're all running around and bumping into eachother, as it does there is some cosmic force directing us all. i mean, look at the mess of a world we live in...would some greater force and forger of paths seriously be so bad at leading us all along? lol

    "Love at first sight" is not real. It's exposed by biochemistry as being "Lust at first sight". Love is accrued over a lot of time together, usually initiated by lust. Sex helps a lot in building "Love" because it produces a lot of norepinephrine and oxytocin in the brain.

    The "cosmic force" is none other than..... a set of laws governing reality. It has no concern or even knowledge of human existance. It's not a human-like thing, it's a rock-like thing, in that it is not conscious. Humans tend to anthropomorphize everything, that is, apply human characteristics to things which are not human, and that is a human fallacy. If you don't imagine the universe as being conscious, but rather, a set of laws governing reality, then the current state of the world is no surprise.

    How we choose to interact with our environments and even which environments we choose to be in, is very much determined by our past experiences. But not only that, it's determined by the physical interaction of nerve cells in the brain, which may or may not happen to include all past experiences. The brain is not a simple sponge that soaks up information and spits out the best possible solutions, it's very prone to bad information and fallacious inference. I'm sure this is evident by the vast differences of opinion on very many topics.

    The scientific method is the best method of determining what is reality. If you follow the scientific method to this end, you will see that the best hypothesis given the available information is fate/destiny. If you study the alternative and attempt to quantify it and explain it, you will fail. I've read a lot of attempts at quantifying free-will, and none satisfactorily meet any standards. Of course, it's easy to introspect and say from experience whatever it is you want to believe, you probably want to believe it due to your experiences to begin with. That's why we have statistical studies and we group them together to gather even more statistical information. If one person says something, its not a good reason to believe it, so why is your statements truer than the next? That's why we have science.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hmmm.

    I'm reading a lot of stuff here that just doesn't make any sense.

    Physics is not random. There is nothing truly random. A coin-toss is not random, nor is the tiniest quantum fluctuation. Besides, randomness isn't a problem for fate.

    "We" or "You" are a pack of neurons (Francis Crick). You aren't in a position to move the universe, you are subject to the laws of the universe and the complex interaction of nerve cells.

    There are many ways to look at fate/destiny. Keep at it though.
    did the universe decide that i should sleep with my clothes off?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    did the universe decide that i should sleep with my clothes off?

    "Decide" implies intent, forethought and rationale. Who says the universe has any of those things? If you view the "initial configuration" of the universe as not being conscious or designed nor intended, but rather necessary, then no decision was ever made, it's simply what had to happen.

    If two hydrogen atoms only fuse at 0.007 microns or whatever, then it would seem that 0.007 is a matter-of-fact, what had to happen. There is no room for it to be 0.006 or 0.008. Necessarily, it is 0.007. It's not unimaginable to think that hydrogen it's self is a necessity from which all other atomic particles necessarily spawned. What could be an alternative to hydrogen? Does it work as well, or does it fall apart? It could even be that quantum behaviour gave rise to physical reality in the same way evolution gave rise to species. Trial and error with a methodological twist. If I understand correctly, an atom is affected by it's neighbours, that is, atoms are influenced by the atoms around them. Perhaps if one atom stumbles upon a code that works, the others inherit the behaviour. So, right down to the quantum reality, or even smaller, the finest substrate of reality, if not infinity, could be a system of necessity. All things come to be, simply because they work. Ghosts and the like may not actually work in our reality, they seem to violate the basic laws of nature. Anything that could exist probably has or will at one point via the natural evolution of the universe.

    In that perspective, you may have slept naked out of necessity, and nothing decided it. As far as I see, it's the only way of explaining how anything could evolve from relatively nothing. Consciousness, intent and the like are extremely complicated phenomena, not the kind of basic thing that is self-explanatory.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    "Decide" implies intent, forethought and rationale. Who says the universe has any of those things? If you view the "initial configuration" of the universe as not being conscious or designed nor intended, but rather necessary, then no decision was ever made, it's simply what had to happen.

    If two hydrogen atoms only fuse at 0.007 microns or whatever, then it would seem that 0.007 is a matter-of-fact, what had to happen. There is no room for it to be 0.006 or 0.008. Necessarily, it is 0.007. It's not unimaginable to think that hydrogen it's self is a necessity from which all other atomic particles necessarily spawned. What could be an alternative to hydrogen? Does it work as well, or does it fall apart? It could even be that quantum behaviour gave rise to physical reality in the same way evolution gave rise to species. Trial and error with a methodological twist. If I understand correctly, an atom is affected by it's neighbours, that is, atoms are influenced by the atoms around them. Perhaps if one atom stumbles upon a code that works, the others inherit the behaviour. So, right down to the quantum reality, or even smaller, the finest substrate of reality, if not infinity, could be a system of necessity. All things come to be, simply because they work. Ghosts and the like may not actually work in our reality, they seem to violate the basic laws of nature. Anything that could exist probably has or will at one point via the natural evolution of the universe.

    In that perspective, you may have slept naked out of necessity, and nothing decided it. As far as I see, it's the only way of explaining how anything could evolve from relatively nothing. Consciousness, intent and the like are extremely complicated phenomena, not the kind of basic thing that is self-explanatory.
    so, help me out here, did i have a choice or not? cos the way i see it the hydrogen atoms have nothing in relation to me sleeping naked in my bed..... but i did use intent, forethought and rationale when i slept with my clothes off.

    except of course, when i fart.... now then i can agree that i didn't have a choice ;)
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    did the universe decide that i should sleep with my clothes off?
    The universe gave you all the potentials and gave you yourself and sense of separateness from the universe. And you made the choice for yourself on behalf of the universe. It's called your free will. Only you choose. The universe gives you that absolute freedom. It's wonderful. :)

    (that is given you actually did/do sleep with your clothes off)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    The universe gave you all the potentials and gave you yourself and sense of separateness from the universe. And you made the choice for yourself on behalf of the universe. It's called your free will. Only you choose. The universe gives you that absolute freedom. It's wonderful. :)

    (that is given you actually did/do sleep with your clothes off)
    yes, i know. explain that to ahnimus
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    yes, i know. explain that to ahnimus
    I know you know. :) Something tells me Ahnimus might read that. :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hmmm.

    I'm reading a lot of stuff here that just doesn't make any sense.

    Physics is not random. There is nothing truly random. A coin-toss is not random, nor is the tiniest quantum fluctuation. Besides, randomness isn't a problem for fate.

    "We" or "You" are a pack of neurons (Francis Crick). You aren't in a position to move the universe, you are subject to the laws of the universe and the complex interaction of nerve cells.

    There are many ways to look at fate/destiny. Keep at it though.

    Yeah....same thing I was thinking.

    Some people think they have choice when nothing that they are is from personal choice. Not a single cell.

    There are confines and limits and set laws to how everything exists. Nothing is or can be pre-chosen ahead of time....therefore nothing can truly be chosen afterwards.

    Some might think they can...but then they are zoomed too far in looking at the particulars, and applying it outwards (erroneously) as universal.

    It doesn't work that way....it's top down.

    dem don't know...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I used to think, like Bu, that destiny/fate was the talk of astrologers and mystics. But, short answer is, Yes I do believe in fate. How can one not without incorporating a skyhook into their beliefs?

    A skyhook as coined by Daniel Dennett, is something with basically no foundation. Religion is a skyhook, because it supposes a creator with no cause, causelessness. If all things have a cause, and no skyhooks, then fate must be true.....

    Well ryan, I believe in fate/destiny probably more so than you and less than the average person. Well I mean that I would use fate as an explaination probably more than you would, but less than the average person. I think many things happen in this world that can be scientifically explained using maths and physics or other known formulas and whilst they may appear to be fate/destiny they are able to be quantified. But I also believe that in order for some things to "just happen" or be fated, so many things must come in to play and be in "alignment", so many coincidences and happenstances that it doesn't seem possible that it's just a series of random events that came together to create "fate" and explaining it by some scientific equation just doesn't seem to cut it either. I am open to the possibility of fate/destiny probably moreso fate than destiny. If an event happens in my life that I cannot explain, then I would look to science and the known and if that didn't provide adequate answer then I'm happy to settle with fate. :)

    What I really wanted to say though is one thing I do believe in is Skyhooks!:D Because without Skyhooks I wouldn't be who I am. I think everyone should incorporate some Skyhooks into their beliefs.
    It would make the world a much better place! ;)

    Think this one is a good place to start! ;)

    Ego Is Not A Dirty Word

    If I did not have an ego I would not be here tonight
    If I did not have an ego I might not think that I was right
    If you did not have an ego you might not care the way you dressed
    If you did not have an ego you'd just be like the rest

    Ego is not a dirty word
    Ego is not a dirty word
    Ego is not a dirty word
    Don't you believe what you've seen or heard

    If Jesus had an ego he'd still be alive today
    And if Nixon had no ego he might not be in decay
    If you did not have an ego you might not care too much who won
    If I did not have an ego I might just use a gun


    Some people keep their egos in a bottom drawer
    A fridge full of Leonard Cohen
    Have to get drunk just to walk out the door
    Stay drunk to keep on goin'
    So if you got an ego
    You better keep it in good shape
    Exercise it daily
    And get it down on tape


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKS71oW0tZU

    ;)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jeanie girl, you have become a youtube whore. :D:p

    but i love how you worked skyhooks into the debate. :)

    no, i do not believe in fate. fate intimates that we have no choice in future events. i believe we do. the choices we make NOW determines what happens in our future. if you're not prepared to act then you have no chance of getting what you want, let alone what you need. is laziness or indecision an agent of fate? i think not.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Yeah....same thing I was thinking.

    Some people think they have choice when nothing that they are is from personal choice. Not a single cell.

    There are confines and limits and set laws to how everything exists. Nothing is or can be pre-chosen ahead of time....therefore nothing can truly be chosen afterwards.

    Some might think they can...but then they are zoomed too far in looking at the particulars, and applying it outwards (erroneously) as universal.

    It doesn't work that way....it's top down.

    dem don't know...
    a fat man. not his choice he's fat.... there are confines and limits and sets of laws to show that he ended up fat. (but what if he had a choice not to eat?)

    which brings me to the next phase... he looses weight. you could say that the laws, limits and confines of life chose for him to get in shape..... :confused: that makes no sense
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    a fat man. not his choice he's fat.... there are confines and limits and sets of laws to show that he ended up fat. (but what if he had a choice not to eat?)

    which brings me to the next phase... he looses weight. you could say that the laws, limits and confines of life chose for him to get in shape..... :confused: that makes no sense

    Genetics??????? hello?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Genetics??????? hello?
    what???!?!?!?!? genetics has nothing to do with this. what's even funnier is you follow it with a "hello?" as if there's something obvious that i'm missing here.

    yeah, he's fat, like a diabetic person who is diabetic because of genetics, i understand that. but then the fat guy looses weight (becuase he decides to do so, mind you)... and gets in shape. what? are his muscles also a product of his genetics? i thought he inherited diabetes and obesity from his genes, not muscles.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.

Categories