Say for example....the big bang. Before what we can observe...it was another...and yet another (and another)... big bang (somewhere) ongoing forever before us. Time is irrelevant. A human construct. A supernova will wash over all of this and erase everything here....and again..and again....forever. Encompassing.
We have no real concept of time...only the here and now. It all follows a pattern...no matter how we are able to perceive it...it just happens, and we are circumstance to it.
We have no choice in what we are from every last cell in our bodies ...it all came from somewhere before us...it was all pre-determined.
We are comprised of dust from stars in an endless sequence of renewal....in an endless sequence of immense explosions that do not have a beginning or an end.
Energy is never lost....not in the tiniest fraction...it only moves around from here to there....again and again....forever. Infinity.
Always has been...always will be. We can observe infinity...therefore it exists. It's not a question. We cannot observe nothingness....EVER... therefore nothinigness does not....nor has ever existed.
This needs to be realized. In order for something to be truly be nothing....it can never then suddenly become something...otherwise it was not truly nothing to begin with. Nothing=nothing=nothing...not one atom can exist within it. Therefore creation (or something) from nothing is a complete impossibility.
This is a very paramount concept ...and it's yes or no fact.
therefore "creation" as a point in time from complete nothingness is man made fallacy on paper....a fairy tale for the sake of the number zero on paper...
nothing more...nothing less..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What is reasonable or rational about the existence of a God that has never been or never will be seen, heard from, or observed directly. Most scientists would agree that free will is an illusion, and in my opinion an illusion that helps folks like you sleep through the night. In fact most depressed individuals have realized that much is beyond their control and that is why they are depressed. Folks like myself understand that all animals, and yes human beings are animals too, are constrained by an evolutionary history that predisposes animals to think and behave in ways that increase chances of survival and reproduction. That said, the only arguments I can come up with to potentially support the notion of "free will" deal with suicide and intentional refusal to spread one's genes through reproduction.
This is not to say that randomness does not play a huge role in the unfolding of events, because it certainly does.
"My Cadillac's sittin in the back, it isn't me, I'm going home in my Galaxy"
S. Hoon
"My body's nobody's body but mine. You run your own body, let me run mine" Chicago '95
What is reasonable or rational about the existence of a God that has never been or never will be seen, heard from, or observed directly. Most scientists would agree that free will is an illusion, and in my opinion an illusion that helps folks like you sleep through the night. In fact most depressed individuals have realized that much is beyond their control and that is why they are depressed. Folks like myself understand that all animals, and yes human beings are animals too, are constrained by an evolutionary history that predisposes animals to think and behave in ways that increase chances of survival and reproduction. That said, the only arguments I can come up with to potentially support the notion of "free will" deal with suicide and intentional refusal to spread one's genes through reproduction.
This is not to say that randomness does not play a huge role in the unfolding of events, because it certainly does.
I don't see you challenging something I've said specifically. I sounds like you are expressing your own view. Which, if you read my signature, exists alongside my own. And yet, you wanted to put down another opinion? Why is that?
Again, I'd love for you to challenge a specific point I've made. If you are satisfied sharing your own view alongside my own, fair enough.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
So you do not see that you are limited to the confines of this physical reality?
If not, where do you think you are you getting it from? and where is that coming from and etc and etc...? How far out do you think the bible goes beyond "god"?
So you're saying there is a limit to the "universe" and god is it as it was written?
hmm
sounds like mankinds flat earth pre water travel theory to me. We all know Where that went.
You have little choice in what you desire...whether you realize it or not. Not only that...but the series of individual choices based on perception of stimulus that lead you up to the actual event plays a huge part. On top of that....it's not one sided btw..there are two parties (people) involved.
You're still not thinking about it closely and realistically enough.
yes, i am limited to the "confines of the physical reality" but it doesn't make it an absolute.... as if just cos both my parents are diabetic, doesn't mean i will absolutly positively be a diabetic. i could decrease my chances of getting diabetes. just like my father could've decreased his chances of me not being born by not sleeping with my bio-mother.
and oh i am so looking at it more realistically than you think. i'm simply using common sense.
whether i have little choice, or not, (although i don't know what you really mean by it) i still have a choice. just like my father had a choice of keeping his "ahem" in his pants.... just that easily, i wouldn't have been born. sure there are stimulus that lead up to those events which is not limited to a two-way party, but what does that tell me? are you to say that if a couple meets that are sexually attracted to each other they will absolutely positively 100% without a doubt sleep with each other?
i personally don't think that there is a limit to the universe, but i'm really not sure what you're referring to. i have my beliefs... my beliefs are that there are no limitations when coming to know God. i just don't see how that makes people draw conclusions that everything is for a purpose... and everything was "meant to be" the way it is.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Say for example....the big bang. Before what we can observe...it was another...and yet another (and another)... big bang (somewhere) ongoing forever before us. Time is irrelevant. A human construct. A supernova will wash over all of this and erase everything here....and again..and again....forever. Encompassing.
We have no real concept of time...only the here and now. It all follows a pattern...no matter how we are able to perceive it...it just happens, and we are circumstance to it.
We have no choice in what we are from every last cell in our bodies ...it all came from somewhere before us...it was all pre-determined.
We are comprised of dust from stars in an endless sequence of renewal....in an endless sequence of immense explosions that do not have a beginning or an end.
Energy is never lost....not in the tiniest fraction...it only moves around from here to there....again and again....forever. Infinity.
Always has been...always will be. We can observe infinity...therefore it exists. It's not a question. We cannot observe nothingness....EVER... therefore nothinigness does not....nor has ever existed.
This needs to be realized. In order for something to be truly be nothing....it can never then suddenly become something...otherwise it was not truly nothing to begin with. Nothing=nothing=nothing...not one atom can exist within it. Therefore creation (or something) from nothing is a complete impossibility.
This is a very paramount concept ...and it's yes or no fact.
therefore "creation" as a point in time from complete nothingness is man made fallacy on paper....a fairy tale for the sake of the number zero on paper...
nothing more...nothing less..
sure.... we didn't have a choice being put here on earth.... yeah, i can see it that way. that the universe, basically, or technically, predetermined us to be where we are. but it bothers me when someone begins to pick and knit every piece of their lives and start adding and matching it to the stars and the universe. sorta like the horoscope.... that's bullshit, man... i don't buy that.... i don't even buy that God intended for everything to be the way it is. i don't believe that he chose you and i to be speaking. there's a thin line between all of this... we have to use common sense.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
What is reasonable or rational about the existence of a God that has never been or never will be seen, heard from, or observed directly. Most scientists would agree that free will is an illusion, and in my opinion an illusion that helps folks like you sleep through the night. In fact most depressed individuals have realized that much is beyond their control and that is why they are depressed. Folks like myself understand that all animals, and yes human beings are animals too, are constrained by an evolutionary history that predisposes animals to think and behave in ways that increase chances of survival and reproduction. That said, the only arguments I can come up with to potentially support the notion of "free will" deal with suicide and intentional refusal to spread one's genes through reproduction.
This is not to say that randomness does not play a huge role in the unfolding of events, because it certainly does.
yes, randomness, exactly. and it's randomness that allows us to chose who we are.
how does it work? how could anything ever choose for me? i choose for myself.... all these things are idealisms and perceptions. they are not fact.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
We have no choice in what we are from every last cell in our bodies ...it all came from somewhere before us...it was all pre-determined.
We are comprised of dust from stars in an endless sequence of renewal....in an endless sequence of immense explosions that do not have a beginning or an end.
Energy is never lost....not in the tiniest fraction...it only moves around from here to there....again and again....forever. Infinity.
Always has been...always will be. We can observe infinity...therefore it exists. It's not a question. We cannot observe nothingness....EVER... therefore nothinigness does not....nor has ever existed.
This needs to be realized. In order for something to be truly be nothing....it can never then suddenly become something...otherwise it was not truly nothing to begin with. Nothing=nothing=nothing...not one atom can exist within it. Therefore creation (or something) from nothing is a complete impossibility.
This is a very paramount concept ...and it's yes or no fact.
therefore "creation" as a point in time from complete nothingness is man made fallacy on paper....a fairy tale for the sake of the number zero on paper...
nothing more...nothing less..
So on one hand, you see us as an unescapable part of "what is"... of the universe. And then you say we don't have choice at all? If it's all predetermined, and no amount of energy is every lost...aren't we all One with whatever does the predetermining?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We have no real concept of time...only the here and now. It all follows a pattern...no matter how we are able to perceive it...it just happens, and we are circumstance to it.
..
humans aren't able to process the here...only their perception of the past and their guess towards the future....there is no here and how....
So on one hand, you see us as an unescapable part of "what is"... of the universe. And then you say we don't have choice at all? If it's all predetermined, and no amount of energy is every lost...aren't we all One with whatever does the predetermining?
and also if all this is true... and everything is predetermined than why argue about anything? if that's the way it was meant to be than that's the way it was meant to be.... or at least that's what i'm getting from that point of view.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So on one hand, you see us as an unescapable part of "what is"... of the universe. And then you say we don't have choice at all? If it's all predetermined, and no amount of energy is every lost...aren't we all One with whatever does the predetermining?
if I'm following, kinda like a freight train..and were all part of it..and it will blast ahead...without our control?......I do dig that.
and also if all this is true... and everything is predetermined than why argue about anything? if that's the way it was meant to be than that's the way it was meant to be.... or at least that's what i'm getting from that point of view.
because your programed from your past experiences to argue....to get what you need...physically and mentally
because your programed from your past experiences to argue....to get what you need...physically and mentally
the way i see it... it doesn't make life any better to realize that, if there ever is a way to realize it. it's just a concept. an idea. maybe, perhaps, to help them sleep better too.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
if I'm following, kinda like a freight train..and were all part of it..and it will blast ahead...without our control?......I do dig that.
My understanding is that we're all part of it, and we're all on board, for sure, by our being here, and living out this reality. Where we lose touch with "reality" is in our awareness--in our thinking, we perceive separation, when really we're all intricately interconnected. We all make choices all the time, and we all are constantly interacting completely at-one with the universe, despite our ignorance of this most of the time. We're doing it under the surface, all the time, as part of everything that exists.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We can process the here and now when we detach of our thoughts about what will happen or what has happened.
Just because we are oblivious to something for the most part, is not at all the same as that something not existing.
once you process the here and now its already the past....we have experiences then we process this information...skewed for sure. So I believe we're constantly percieving what happened....1 second to 50 years. Always a memory....course we do anticipate the future based on our past.....so past and future...no "now".
once you process the here and now its already the past....we have experiences then we process this information...skewed for sure. So I believe we're constantly percieving what happened....1 second to 50 years. Always a memory....course we do anticipate the future based on our past.....so past and future...no "now".
Again, there is a different between our perception of things (that is out of synch based on our filters) and with what actually exists. The here and now is all we have. We are never in the future and we're never in the past. We are always in the Now. Yes, the vast majority is out of touch with the now, and lives in their thoughts and memories.
People learn to transcend their thoughts and get in touch with Now and reality. Granted, it's a very, very slim minority.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
My understanding is that we're all part of it, and we're all on board, for sure, by our being here, and living out this reality. Where we lose touch with "reality" is in our awareness--in our thinking, we perceive separation, when really we're all intricately interconnected. We all make choices all the time, and we all are constantly interacting completely at-one with the universe, despite our ignorance of this most of the time. We're doing it under the surface, all the time, as part of everything that exists.
Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
Again, there is a different between our perception of things (that is out of synch based on our filters) and with what actually exists. The here and now is all we have. We are never in the future and we're never in the past. We are always in the Now. Yes, the vast majority is out of touch with the now, and lives in their thoughts and memories.
People learn to transcend their thoughts and get in touch with Now and reality. Granted, it's a very, very slim minority.
its almost like infinitely small number...if I can correlate the two and make sense, struggled with the concept in math....feel were never here....and didn't mean to convey that we're living in the future...only that our minds can only process thoughts of what it thought happened and what it thinks will happen in the future. And no choices... (-:
Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
but you can choose to wear a white t-shirt, or a blue t-shirt, or a green t-shirt.... and still, even if you don't even care about your past experiences you could've still chosen to wear a long-sleeve shirt and a tie. or a suit. or hell, even a sweater. it's still a matter of choice.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
the way i see it... it doesn't make life any better to realize that, if there ever is a way to realize it. it's just a concept. an idea. maybe, perhaps, to help them sleep better too.
you just have to experience...and enjoy..and not worry too much about why.......life is really cool.
PS. I've had some pretty stark reply's to some of your posts in past....some wish I would have been cooler about it.... your even a fellow texan, that likes PJ....
its almost like infinitely small number...if I can correlate the two and make sense, struggled with the concept in math....feel were never here....and didn't mean to convey that we're living in the future...only that our minds can only process thoughts of what it thought happened and what it thinks will happen in the future. And no choices... (-:
It's not our minds per se...it's our programming. As I say, we can transcend our programming and get into the eternal now--reality.
I do understand what you are saying. And I agree it's our perception and not the reality. And it's very common. There are many books and disciplines that seek the Truth. One book is "The Power of Now", that is all about getting into our presence and existence. and Being. That's where our Power is. Most of us are entranced by our programming. We are not our programming, however. We are the ones who are perceiving through it--and since we are not it, we can learn to align with our truth beyond the programming.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
but you can choose to wear a white t-shirt, or a blue t-shirt, or a green t-shirt.... and still, even if you don't even care about your past experiences you could've still chosen to wear a long-sleeve shirt and a tie. or a suit. or hell, even a sweater. it's still a matter of choice.
right but something in what happened to you in the past will dictate what you will ultimtely choose...you look at the green and say to yourself something to choose it...based on what happened in the past....chick or dude looked at you, your wearing black jeans and yellow will go, forecaster said it would be cold..so you know when he says that wear your longsleeve..etc. You could throw all your clothes in a pile...blindfold yourself and pick...that might work.
i can't bring myself to put much stock in fate. it's a nice thought, but there are over 6 billion people in the world and no matter who or where you are, you're going to--at some point in your life--have the opportunity to meet countless people who become so significant to you you almost feel obligated to believe it was fate that brought you together. there are so many conceivable things to do and places to be, that when you've finally settled upon wherever you're going and what you want to do, it seems nice to say 'wow, this must be my fate.' in reality, you meet who you meet because they happen to be there, you do what you do because at some point you decided you wanted to, and you are where you are because you went there.
why does it have to all be according to some supernatural and unexplainable cosmic plan? isn't it possible we deserve enough credit to be responsible for our own actions and consequences?
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
right but something in what happened to you in the past will dictate what you will ultimtely choose...you look at the green and say to yourself something to choose it...based on what happened in the past....chick or dude looked at you, your wearing black jeans and yellow will go, forecaster said it would be cold..so you know when he says that wear your longsleeve..etc. You could throw all your clothes in a pile...blindfold yourself and pick...that might work.
but i can still say, i love the cold weather.... i'll go with a t-shirt today.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
I will agree that when we are not aware with how to access our power, we will continue to be unempowered. It's the basic state for the average person...with that I can agree.
When the drop of water REALizes it's the ocean, that's when it expands it's awareness and REALizes it's power--making it real. We can align with our petty individuality, and our separation and illusions, or we can focus in on being one with that which has Predetermined.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It's not our minds per se...it's our programming. As I say, we can transcend our programming and get into the eternal now--reality.
I do understand what you are saying. And I agree it's our perception and not the reality. And it's very common. There are many books and disciplines that seek the Truth. One book is "The Power of Now", that is all about getting into our presence and existence. and Being. That's where our Power is. Most of us are entranced by our programming. We are not our programming, however. We are the ones who are perceiving through it--and since we are not it, we can learn to align with our truth beyond the programming.
I've not read or done any research on my position and should....can maybe kinda see if one could get into a place of blocking out all inputs, not that I know if and how that's acheived, maybe there's a possibility of getting to now....but as soon as you start thinking.....BAM past.
you just have to experience...and enjoy..and not worry too much about why.......life is really cool.
PS. I've had some pretty stark reply's to some of your posts in past....some wish I would have been cooler about it.... your even a fellow texan, that likes PJ....
yeah, exactly... everything is random to me, so i enjoy it's randomness... or try my best. i'll only go as far to say that everything that happens in life can work for a good cause... no matter what. but to say that everything is predetermined for me is too far out.
i don't know what you mean by the stark reply's to my posts... you mean the one you said about why i believe in god??? the weird one that said, "it's okay... it's okayyayyya"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
but i can still say, i love the cold weather.... i'll go with a t-shirt today.
but will you? if you do there was something in your past that helped you make that choice.....can see it now.....Jan 15th and we get that rare blast of cold air...and my buddy deadnothingbetter say's..." I'll show that bastard on PJ board...I'm wearing a T-Shirt today, I'm in control" well not really....my memory to you....the past had you freeze you butt off.
Comments
We have no real concept of time...only the here and now. It all follows a pattern...no matter how we are able to perceive it...it just happens, and we are circumstance to it.
We have no choice in what we are from every last cell in our bodies ...it all came from somewhere before us...it was all pre-determined.
We are comprised of dust from stars in an endless sequence of renewal....in an endless sequence of immense explosions that do not have a beginning or an end.
Energy is never lost....not in the tiniest fraction...it only moves around from here to there....again and again....forever. Infinity.
Always has been...always will be. We can observe infinity...therefore it exists. It's not a question. We cannot observe nothingness....EVER... therefore nothinigness does not....nor has ever existed.
This needs to be realized. In order for something to be truly be nothing....it can never then suddenly become something...otherwise it was not truly nothing to begin with. Nothing=nothing=nothing...not one atom can exist within it. Therefore creation (or something) from nothing is a complete impossibility.
This is a very paramount concept ...and it's yes or no fact.
therefore "creation" as a point in time from complete nothingness is man made fallacy on paper....a fairy tale for the sake of the number zero on paper...
nothing more...nothing less..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
What is reasonable or rational about the existence of a God that has never been or never will be seen, heard from, or observed directly. Most scientists would agree that free will is an illusion, and in my opinion an illusion that helps folks like you sleep through the night. In fact most depressed individuals have realized that much is beyond their control and that is why they are depressed. Folks like myself understand that all animals, and yes human beings are animals too, are constrained by an evolutionary history that predisposes animals to think and behave in ways that increase chances of survival and reproduction. That said, the only arguments I can come up with to potentially support the notion of "free will" deal with suicide and intentional refusal to spread one's genes through reproduction.
This is not to say that randomness does not play a huge role in the unfolding of events, because it certainly does.
S. Hoon
"My body's nobody's body but mine. You run your own body, let me run mine" Chicago '95
Franken '08
Again, I'd love for you to challenge a specific point I've made. If you are satisfied sharing your own view alongside my own, fair enough.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and oh i am so looking at it more realistically than you think. i'm simply using common sense.
whether i have little choice, or not, (although i don't know what you really mean by it) i still have a choice. just like my father had a choice of keeping his "ahem" in his pants.... just that easily, i wouldn't have been born. sure there are stimulus that lead up to those events which is not limited to a two-way party, but what does that tell me? are you to say that if a couple meets that are sexually attracted to each other they will absolutely positively 100% without a doubt sleep with each other?
i personally don't think that there is a limit to the universe, but i'm really not sure what you're referring to. i have my beliefs... my beliefs are that there are no limitations when coming to know God. i just don't see how that makes people draw conclusions that everything is for a purpose... and everything was "meant to be" the way it is.
how does it work? how could anything ever choose for me? i choose for myself.... all these things are idealisms and perceptions. they are not fact.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Just because we are oblivious to something for the most part, is not at all the same as that something not existing.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
People learn to transcend their thoughts and get in touch with Now and reality. Granted, it's a very, very slim minority.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
PS. I've had some pretty stark reply's to some of your posts in past....some wish I would have been cooler about it.... your even a fellow texan, that likes PJ....
I do understand what you are saying. And I agree it's our perception and not the reality. And it's very common. There are many books and disciplines that seek the Truth. One book is "The Power of Now", that is all about getting into our presence and existence. and Being. That's where our Power is. Most of us are entranced by our programming. We are not our programming, however. We are the ones who are perceiving through it--and since we are not it, we can learn to align with our truth beyond the programming.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
why does it have to all be according to some supernatural and unexplainable cosmic plan? isn't it possible we deserve enough credit to be responsible for our own actions and consequences?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
When the drop of water REALizes it's the ocean, that's when it expands it's awareness and REALizes it's power--making it real. We can align with our petty individuality, and our separation and illusions, or we can focus in on being one with that which has Predetermined.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I've not read or done any research on my position and should....can maybe kinda see if one could get into a place of blocking out all inputs, not that I know if and how that's acheived, maybe there's a possibility of getting to now....but as soon as you start thinking.....BAM past.
i don't know what you mean by the stark reply's to my posts... you mean the one you said about why i believe in god??? the weird one that said, "it's okay... it's okayyayyya"