World would be worse off without faith...

onelongsong wrote:

and thus we know something you don't know. and that's where we should leave it. one opinion is as valid as the other.

I'm sorry?

I don't understand how your living an illusion means you know something I don't.

even flow? wrote:

I think they are scared that when they die there will be a god and that they will have trouble blowing off the notion that there isn't one while being in the presence of it.

To each their own. I think that we/us here on the board talk about it to help pass the day. I don't really think that people on here are trying to convert anybody to another religion or no religion at all. But I understand where you are coming from in the real world.

If I die and God does exist, and I've been wrong all along then I'm sure he will forgive me and be happy to see me anyway. As I will to see him if he exists.:)

onelongsong wrote:

i don't give athiesm a second thought. i pray for mom whether she believes or not.

Well that's a shame, because some good people are athiests and I would have thought that in order to love and care for them you would need to understand their point of view to some degree. Requiring more than a passing thought to athiesm. And I still think it's kind of you to pray for mom. I just hope that it's not an unwelcome burden to her.

onelongsong wrote:

i've NEVER asked God for ANYTHING for myself. only to help others.

Well that's great. We are the same here then. Except that I don't believe in God.

onelongsong wrote:

but others have turned to God on you're behalf.

Well that's very kind of them. But I didn't ask them to do that, and I'm happy for them to do that if it makes them feel better but I don't believe it does anything for me. And just so we're clear, I hope that others turning to God on my behalf doesn't mean that I owe them or God anything because if that's the case then I'd prefer not to have people racking up a bill for me without my consent. But thank you for the thought.

onelongsong wrote:

christians are not offended. we know something you don't know.

Quite possibly, but I don't really think so. Has it occured to you that athiests know something that YOU don't? And I mean that in the most inoffensive of ways.

onelongsong wrote:

as for mom; i want to do something to help. i don't want to feel helpless. this is my way of knowing i did something for her. i dedicated some of my time to send her well wishes.

OLS athiests have done that for mom too you know. We just call it sending love and best wishes and positive energy and numerous other things.
I think we're all agreed here that everyone loves mom and wants her to get better and we are all collectively hoping for that to happen. That's pretty powerful stuff regardless of what side of the debate you are on.

chopitdown wrote:

I find it ironic that you base your claim about free will around a very controversial reserach study on which there is no consensus to it's results. Sort of like how Christians base their claim on Jesus Christ on a controversial book.

your constantly being programed. You may change behavior...but when its time to make a decision....bam..its already done. This isn't a bad thing...its just the way that it is.

Christians need security....and this little fable thats been created gives that comfort. AND theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.....I think its great...really...just as long as it doesn't impose on my life......which it does.

chopitdown wrote:

i still have a hard time with saying that we dont' have free will when the essence of the task at hand in that study was to follow a command and push a button.

choose to be a christian??? Would you have been a christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?

callen wrote:

your constantly being programed. You may change behavior...but when its time to make a decision....bam..its already done. This isn't a bad thing...its just the way that it is.

Christians need security....and this little fable thats been created gives that comfort. AND theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.....I think its great...really...just as long as it doesn't impose on my life......which it does.

there's a difference b/t the delay it takes to do something...ie...the brain initiating movement and the electrical delay (hardwiring) it takes to carry it out. Take playing basketball. I can choose to pass to someone. Once i have decided to pass to someone there is a certain point where it is inevitable...but i can choose to pass it to whomever i want.

chopitdown wrote:

there's a difference b/t the delay it takes to do something...ie...the brain initiating movement and the electrical delay (hardwiring) it takes to carry it out. Take playing basketball. I can choose to pass to someone. Once i have decided to pass to someone there is a certain point where it is inevitable...but i can choose to pass it to whomever i want.

to whome you were going to pass it too was already determined....you had no control.....this determination was based on many factors (who's open, who you trust etc) but it was already done..you had no choice or free will as ahnimus puts it.

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, but the thing is, that entire basketball game is happening about 300 - 500 ms before you are aware of it. That's the length of the delay between sensory inputs, decision making and the conscious realization of it.

so would you say we have free will to carry something out but once we begin to carry something out we cease to have free will? If a ball is coming at me and I want to catch it I know that my subconscious is already aware of the position of the ball, approx velocity of the ball b/c of what it sees and processes all subconsiously...now once i say i want to catch it my body will adjust arms, legs, fingers etc... to make that a reality. Many things happen on the subconcsious level and are integrated but i don't have to catch the ball I don't have to run after someone.