just b/c people believe in God doesn't make them perfect either. But I can see your point.
As Jesus would have done. When a gun toting, hot head who believes in God and Jesus is having their house broken into. They should realize that that person may have less then them and offer to give them some of their overindulged, worldly possessions instead of shooting them. Don't forget your ten commandments kids. Ah yes the reason why we can repent on our death beds. Makes us all feel a whole lot better for not living a good life.
Edit: Beacause those tools with WWJD on their cars don't have a fucking clue what Jesus would do.
you ever been in jail? i've never met so many devout christians in my life. they all read the bible and talk about jesus and their faith. it's ridiculous.
Captive audience!
Bit like I've always considered those who have an epiphany and go to god when they have a major life changing event like illness, to be weak minded. If you want to follow God by all means follow God but it's sad to think that people are so frightened by their lot in life that they can't reason their way through some events.
Bit like I've always considered those who have an epiphany and go to god when they have a major life changing event like illness, to be weak minded. If you want to follow God by all means follow God but it's sad to think that people are so frightened by their lot in life that they can't reason their way through some events.
Quite a few people have expressed amazement that I haven't had some sort of religious epiphany since I got sick. A couple of weeks ago my sister-in-law offered to take me to a faith healer. After I wiped the flabbergasted expression off my face, I said, "Ummmmm ... thanks, but atheists don't really do the faith healer thing." And she said, "Oh! You're still an atheist?! How could you still be an atheist?!" It's not the first time I've heard something like that. It's like you're expected to be unable to cope on your own. I don't understand it.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
you ever been in jail? i've never met so many devout christians in my life. they all read the bible and talk about jesus and their faith. it's ridiculous.
never even had a traffic ticket.
however; isn't it amazing how God gets all these people through the prison conditions. part of being christian is admitting you're not perfect. also knowing you did wrong and trying to correct and/or feel remorse for what you did.
why are athiests always trying to recruit? why are they always trying to convince christians they're wrong? you argue the point like you have to PROVE God doesn't exist.
athiest on this board talk about God more than christians. why is this?
Quite a few people have expressed amazement that I haven't had some sort of religious epiphany since I got sick. A couple of weeks ago my sister-in-law offered to take me to a faith healer. After I wiped the flabbergasted expression off my face, I said, "Ummmmm ... thanks, but atheists don't really do the faith healer thing." And she said, "Oh! You're still an atheist?! How could you still be an atheist?!" It's not the first time I've heard something like that. It's like you're expected to be unable to cope on your own. I don't understand it.
He/she could have put their hand on your head, you could have hit the deck and then I could have watched it on t.v.. To see hippiemom on Benny Hinn. Yeah!
He/she could have put their hand on your head, you could have hit the deck and then I could have watched it on t.v.. To see hippiemom on Benny Hinn. Yeah!
Hahaha ... that's pretty much what my daughter said when I told her about the invitation.
"Oh wow, that would be GREAT!!!! That's what we should do for my birthday!!! It'd be like a Seinfeld episode!"
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Bit like I've always considered those who have an epiphany and go to god when they have a major life changing event like illness, to be weak minded. If you want to follow God by all means follow God but it's sad to think that people are so frightened by their lot in life that they can't reason their way through some events.
when you lose hope; you lose the battle. if someone takes comfort in prayer or turning to God; it gives them hope and with hope comes healing.
and if someone does turn to God; why should an athiest give it a second thought? i pray for hippiemom to get better. i don't care what she believes. does it really matter? it won't hurt her and it's my way of sending love and hope to her.
Quite a few people have expressed amazement that I haven't had some sort of religious epiphany since I got sick. A couple of weeks ago my sister-in-law offered to take me to a faith healer. After I wiped the flabbergasted expression off my face, I said, "Ummmmm ... thanks, but atheists don't really do the faith healer thing." And she said, "Oh! You're still an atheist?! How could you still be an atheist?!" It's not the first time I've heard something like that. It's like you're expected to be unable to cope on your own. I don't understand it.
I remember that coz you posted in Song Break.
I do know what you mean mom. Had a whole bunch of well meaning folk try to surround and envelope me with "God's Love" while I was in hospital grappling with a body that refused to do what it was told and a diagnosis that was proving to be quite the mind meld. And I can kind of understand how it happens that people choose God in these situations. Or think that you would. You're in a hightened emotional state, frightened and looking for comfort, so you seek out something "safe" and "productive" to fill your mind with, in order to block out the questions you can't answer and the fear that you can't deal with.
Cleverly, my tiny little mind got stuck on that all absorbing life question,
"When will my soulmate arrive? I know he must be around here somewhere. He's close I can feel it! Where is he already?" Such a safe subject to ponder!!! Got me through!
Must be like penis envy. And who really buys into that.
no kidding. it wasn't a jew of muslum that complains about christian symbols on government; it's the athiests. if God doesn't exist; why does it bother them? why does 12% of the population feel the rest should change for them? we're suppose to have freedom of religion. why do they try to stifle that? it makes no bloody sense to me.
when you lose hope; you lose the battle. if someone takes comfort in prayer or turning to God; it gives them hope and with hope comes healing.
and if someone does turn to God; why should an athiest give it a second thought? i pray for hippiemom to get better. i don't care what she believes. does it really matter? it won't hurt her and it's my way of sending love and hope to her.
Ok, but having hope isn't the sole dominion of the religious. Athiests have hope. And I agree that hope brings healing. The power of love and the mind.
Or God if that is what you believe. And if an athiest doesn't turn to god why should a religious person give that a second thought?
I don't have a problem if people choose to turn to God at a time of crisis in their life but I would have a whole lot more respect for them if they didn't turn to "GOD" because they wanted something. If they could come to God because they reasoned their way there. So be it. But times of crisis make it difficult to reason objectively. If you're really keen, why not turn to God after the crisis has passed to give thanks or something. Or before the crisis happens? That seems more logical to me. And more ethical.
Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't turn to God. If there is a God then I would have felt like a giant hypocrite asking for anything just because my shitty little life had taken a turn for the worst. Hadn't needed him before so not gonna be asking then. AND the question that does go through my mind is if there is a God and he inflicted this shit on me then why should I even want to talk to him let alone take him into my life?
But that's just my opinion. And it's not meant to offend anybody who doesn't share my view.
I think it's really kind of you to care for and honor mom the way that you are by turning to your beliefs.
no kidding. it wasn't a jew of muslum that complains about christian symbols on government; it's the athiests. if God doesn't exist; why does it bother them? why does 12% of the population feel the rest should change for them? we're suppose to have freedom of religion. why do they try to stifle that? it makes no bloody sense to me.
I think they are scared that when they die there will be a god and that they will have trouble blowing off the notion that there isn't one while being in the presence of it.
To each their own. I think that we/us here on the board talk about it to help pass the day. I don't really think that people on here are trying to convert anybody to another religion or no religion at all. But I understand where you are coming from in the real world.
Ok, but having hope isn't the sole dominion of the religious. Athiests have hope. And I agree that hope brings healing. The power of love and the mind.
Or God if that is what you believe. And if an athiest doesn't turn to god why should a religious person give that a second thought?
i don't give athiesm a second thought. i pray for mom whether she believes or not.
I don't have a problem if people choose to turn to God at a time of crisis in their life but I would have a whole lot more respect for them if they didn't turn to "GOD" because they wanted something. If they could come to God because they reasoned their way there. So be it. But times of crisis make it difficult to reason objectively. If you're really keen, why not turn to God after the crisis has passed to give thanks or something. Or before the crisis happens? That seems more logical to me. And more ethical.
i've NEVER asked God for ANYTHING for myself. only to help others.
Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't turn to God. If there is a God then I would have felt like a giant hypocrite asking for anything just because my shitty little life had taken a turn for the worst. Hadn't needed him before so not gonna be asking then. AND the question that does go through my mind is if there is a God and he inflicted this shit on me then why should I even want to talk to him let alone take him into my life?
But that's just my opinion. And it's not meant to offend anybody who doesn't share my view.
I think it's really kind of you to care for and honor mom the way that you are by turning to your beliefs.
christians are not offended. we know something you don't know.
as for mom; i want to do something to help. i don't want to feel helpless. this is my way of knowing i did something for her. i dedicated some of my time to send her well wishes.
The concept of free-will is false. Therefor we do not have the free choice between right and wrong. We cannot choose heave over hell, the choice is made for us by the divine spirit that created all things and set the rules (i.e. physics) for our existence. It is this existence that determines our choices and therefor there cannot be the God as defined in the Bible that would hold us entirely accountable for eternity.
It only makes sense to me, that God does not exist at all. The Bible is blatantly wrong on every page. But many will not believe it, when the facts are right under their nose, they can not see the truth about choice.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The concept of free-will is false. Therefor we do not have the free choice between right and wrong. We cannot choose heave over hell, the choice is made for us by the divine spirit that created all things and set the rules (i.e. physics) for our existence. It is this existence that determines our choices and therefor there cannot be the God as defined in the Bible that would hold us entirely accountable for eternity.
It only makes sense to me, that God does not exist at all. The Bible is blatantly wrong on every page. But many will not believe it, when the facts are right under their nose, they can not see the truth about choice.
and thus we know something you don't know. and that's where we should leave it. one opinion is as valid as the other.
The concept of free-will is false. Therefor we do not have the free choice between right and wrong. We cannot choose heave over hell, the choice is made for us by the divine spirit that created all things and set the rules (i.e. physics) for our existence. It is this existence that determines our choices and therefor there cannot be the God as defined in the Bible that would hold us entirely accountable for eternity.
It only makes sense to me, that God does not exist at all. The Bible is blatantly wrong on every page. But many will not believe it, when the facts are right under their nose, they can not see the truth about choice.
I enjoy your posts but can't get over the fact that you think there is no god and then that we as a human have our life laid out for us and have no bearing on where we take it with our choices throughout life.
and thus we know something you don't know. and that's where we should leave it. one opinion is as valid as the other.
I'm sorry?
I don't understand how your living an illusion means you know something I don't.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I enjoy your posts but can't get over the fact that you think there is no god and then that we as a human have our life laid out for us and have no bearing on where we take it with our choices throughout life.
Hehe, well, if it's any comfort to you. It's not something I think, it's something I know.
I've seriously, and I still do, challenge anyone to show me evidence of choice independent of physical or divine determinents, and a truly random thing.
So far, no one has, and that is because neither exist.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i'm sorrier for you. until you can prove your opinion; it's only an opinion. i respect your opinion; but i know differently.
It is proven. Your choices are made 300 ms before you are aware of the choices. Benjamin Libet 1985.
It's not that it isn't proven, generally speaking, it's that you don't believe it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think they are scared that when they die there will be a god and that they will have trouble blowing off the notion that there isn't one while being in the presence of it.
To each their own. I think that we/us here on the board talk about it to help pass the day. I don't really think that people on here are trying to convert anybody to another religion or no religion at all. But I understand where you are coming from in the real world.
If I die and God does exist, and I've been wrong all along then I'm sure he will forgive me and be happy to see me anyway. As I will to see him if he exists.:)
It is proven. Your choices are made 300 ms before you are aware of the choices. Benjamin Libet 1985.
It's not that it isn't proven, generally speaking, it's that you don't believe it.
I find it ironic that you base your claim about free will around a very controversial reserach study on which there is no consensus to it's results. Sort of like how Christians base their claim on Jesus Christ on a controversial book.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
i don't give athiesm a second thought. i pray for mom whether she believes or not.
Well that's a shame, because some good people are athiests and I would have thought that in order to love and care for them you would need to understand their point of view to some degree. Requiring more than a passing thought to athiesm. And I still think it's kind of you to pray for mom. I just hope that it's not an unwelcome burden to her.
Well that's very kind of them. But I didn't ask them to do that, and I'm happy for them to do that if it makes them feel better but I don't believe it does anything for me. And just so we're clear, I hope that others turning to God on my behalf doesn't mean that I owe them or God anything because if that's the case then I'd prefer not to have people racking up a bill for me without my consent. But thank you for the thought.
christians are not offended. we know something you don't know.
Quite possibly, but I don't really think so. Has it occured to you that athiests know something that YOU don't? And I mean that in the most inoffensive of ways.
as for mom; i want to do something to help. i don't want to feel helpless. this is my way of knowing i did something for her. i dedicated some of my time to send her well wishes.
OLS athiests have done that for mom too you know. We just call it sending love and best wishes and positive energy and numerous other things.
I think we're all agreed here that everyone loves mom and wants her to get better and we are all collectively hoping for that to happen. That's pretty powerful stuff regardless of what side of the debate you are on.
I find it ironic that you base your claim about free will around a very controversial reserach study on which there is no consensus to it's results. Sort of like how Christians base their claim on Jesus Christ on a controversial book.
There have been several subsequent experiments with the same results.
The only controversy behind it is that people do not want to believe it.
Benjamin Libet himself couldn't handle it, and made up some nonsense about how it proves we actually have "free-won't" the ability to veto action potentials with the consciousness. Which is complete speculation and makes absolutely no sense.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I find it ironic that you base your claim about free will around a very controversial reserach study on which there is no consensus to it's results. Sort of like how Christians base their claim on Jesus Christ on a controversial book.
your constantly being programed. You may change behavior...but when its time to make a decision....bam..its already done. This isn't a bad thing...its just the way that it is.
Christians need security....and this little fable thats been created gives that comfort. AND theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.....I think its great...really...just as long as it doesn't impose on my life......which it does.
Comments
As Jesus would have done. When a gun toting, hot head who believes in God and Jesus is having their house broken into. They should realize that that person may have less then them and offer to give them some of their overindulged, worldly possessions instead of shooting them. Don't forget your ten commandments kids. Ah yes the reason why we can repent on our death beds. Makes us all feel a whole lot better for not living a good life.
Edit: Beacause those tools with WWJD on their cars don't have a fucking clue what Jesus would do.
I'm fairly confident he wouldn't drive slow in the left lane and he'd use his turn signal...some days that's all i ask for from people.
where should we go
what can we do
what do we deserve
who says whats right
im still searching
dreamer in my dream
we got the guns
i love you,but im..............callin out.........callin out
Captive audience!
Bit like I've always considered those who have an epiphany and go to god when they have a major life changing event like illness, to be weak minded. If you want to follow God by all means follow God but it's sad to think that people are so frightened by their lot in life that they can't reason their way through some events.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
never even had a traffic ticket.
however; isn't it amazing how God gets all these people through the prison conditions. part of being christian is admitting you're not perfect. also knowing you did wrong and trying to correct and/or feel remorse for what you did.
why are athiests always trying to recruit? why are they always trying to convince christians they're wrong? you argue the point like you have to PROVE God doesn't exist.
athiest on this board talk about God more than christians. why is this?
He/she could have put their hand on your head, you could have hit the deck and then I could have watched it on t.v.. To see hippiemom on Benny Hinn. Yeah!
Must be like penis envy. And who really buys into that.
"Oh wow, that would be GREAT!!!! That's what we should do for my birthday!!! It'd be like a Seinfeld episode!"
when you lose hope; you lose the battle. if someone takes comfort in prayer or turning to God; it gives them hope and with hope comes healing.
and if someone does turn to God; why should an athiest give it a second thought? i pray for hippiemom to get better. i don't care what she believes. does it really matter? it won't hurt her and it's my way of sending love and hope to her.
I remember that coz you posted in Song Break.
I do know what you mean mom. Had a whole bunch of well meaning folk try to surround and envelope me with "God's Love" while I was in hospital grappling with a body that refused to do what it was told and a diagnosis that was proving to be quite the mind meld. And I can kind of understand how it happens that people choose God in these situations. Or think that you would. You're in a hightened emotional state, frightened and looking for comfort, so you seek out something "safe" and "productive" to fill your mind with, in order to block out the questions you can't answer and the fear that you can't deal with.
Cleverly, my tiny little mind got stuck on that all absorbing life question,
"When will my soulmate arrive? I know he must be around here somewhere. He's close I can feel it! Where is he already?"
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
no kidding. it wasn't a jew of muslum that complains about christian symbols on government; it's the athiests. if God doesn't exist; why does it bother them? why does 12% of the population feel the rest should change for them? we're suppose to have freedom of religion. why do they try to stifle that? it makes no bloody sense to me.
Ok, but having hope isn't the sole dominion of the religious. Athiests have hope. And I agree that hope brings healing. The power of love and the mind.
Or God if that is what you believe. And if an athiest doesn't turn to god why should a religious person give that a second thought?
I don't have a problem if people choose to turn to God at a time of crisis in their life but I would have a whole lot more respect for them if they didn't turn to "GOD" because they wanted something. If they could come to God because they reasoned their way there. So be it. But times of crisis make it difficult to reason objectively. If you're really keen, why not turn to God after the crisis has passed to give thanks or something. Or before the crisis happens? That seems more logical to me. And more ethical.
Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't turn to God. If there is a God then I would have felt like a giant hypocrite asking for anything just because my shitty little life had taken a turn for the worst. Hadn't needed him before so not gonna be asking then. AND the question that does go through my mind is if there is a God and he inflicted this shit on me then why should I even want to talk to him let alone take him into my life?
But that's just my opinion. And it's not meant to offend anybody who doesn't share my view.
I think it's really kind of you to care for and honor mom the way that you are by turning to your beliefs.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think they are scared that when they die there will be a god and that they will have trouble blowing off the notion that there isn't one while being in the presence of it.
To each their own. I think that we/us here on the board talk about it to help pass the day. I don't really think that people on here are trying to convert anybody to another religion or no religion at all. But I understand where you are coming from in the real world.
i don't give athiesm a second thought. i pray for mom whether she believes or not.
i've NEVER asked God for ANYTHING for myself. only to help others.
but others have turned to God on you're behalf.
christians are not offended. we know something you don't know.
as for mom; i want to do something to help. i don't want to feel helpless. this is my way of knowing i did something for her. i dedicated some of my time to send her well wishes.
It only makes sense to me, that God does not exist at all. The Bible is blatantly wrong on every page. But many will not believe it, when the facts are right under their nose, they can not see the truth about choice.
and thus we know something you don't know. and that's where we should leave it. one opinion is as valid as the other.
I enjoy your posts but can't get over the fact that you think there is no god and then that we as a human have our life laid out for us and have no bearing on where we take it with our choices throughout life.
i didn't think that was possible around here
I'm sorry?
I don't understand how your living an illusion means you know something I don't.
Hehe, well, if it's any comfort to you. It's not something I think, it's something I know.
I've seriously, and I still do, challenge anyone to show me evidence of choice independent of physical or divine determinents, and a truly random thing.
So far, no one has, and that is because neither exist.
i'm sorrier for you. until you can prove your opinion; it's only an opinion. i respect your opinion; but i know differently.
It is proven. Your choices are made 300 ms before you are aware of the choices. Benjamin Libet 1985.
It's not that it isn't proven, generally speaking, it's that you don't believe it.
If I die and God does exist, and I've been wrong all along then I'm sure he will forgive me and be happy to see me anyway. As I will to see him if he exists.:)
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I find it ironic that you base your claim about free will around a very controversial reserach study on which there is no consensus to it's results. Sort of like how Christians base their claim on Jesus Christ on a controversial book.
Well that's a shame, because some good people are athiests and I would have thought that in order to love and care for them you would need to understand their point of view to some degree. Requiring more than a passing thought to athiesm. And I still think it's kind of you to pray for mom. I just hope that it's not an unwelcome burden to her.
Well that's great. We are the same here then. Except that I don't believe in God.
Well that's very kind of them. But I didn't ask them to do that, and I'm happy for them to do that if it makes them feel better but I don't believe it does anything for me. And just so we're clear, I hope that others turning to God on my behalf doesn't mean that I owe them or God anything because if that's the case then I'd prefer not to have people racking up a bill for me without my consent. But thank you for the thought.
Quite possibly, but I don't really think so. Has it occured to you that athiests know something that YOU don't? And I mean that in the most inoffensive of ways.
OLS athiests have done that for mom too you know. We just call it sending love and best wishes and positive energy and numerous other things.
I think we're all agreed here that everyone loves mom and wants her to get better and we are all collectively hoping for that to happen. That's pretty powerful stuff regardless of what side of the debate you are on.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
There have been several subsequent experiments with the same results.
The only controversy behind it is that people do not want to believe it.
Benjamin Libet himself couldn't handle it, and made up some nonsense about how it proves we actually have "free-won't" the ability to veto action potentials with the consciousness. Which is complete speculation and makes absolutely no sense.
your constantly being programed. You may change behavior...but when its time to make a decision....bam..its already done. This isn't a bad thing...its just the way that it is.
Christians need security....and this little fable thats been created gives that comfort. AND theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.....I think its great...really...just as long as it doesn't impose on my life......which it does.