Do you believe in fate?

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  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    angelica wrote:
    So on one hand, you see us as an unescapable part of "what is"... of the universe. And then you say we don't have choice at all? If it's all predetermined, and no amount of energy is every lost...aren't we all One with whatever does the predetermining?
    and also if all this is true... and everything is predetermined than why argue about anything? if that's the way it was meant to be than that's the way it was meant to be.... or at least that's what i'm getting from that point of view.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    angelica wrote:
    So on one hand, you see us as an unescapable part of "what is"... of the universe. And then you say we don't have choice at all? If it's all predetermined, and no amount of energy is every lost...aren't we all One with whatever does the predetermining?
    if I'm following, kinda like a freight train..and were all part of it..and it will blast ahead...without our control?......I do dig that.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    humans aren't able to process the here...only their perception of the past and their guess towards the future....there is no here and how....
    We can process the here and now when we detach of our thoughts about what will happen or what has happened.

    Just because we are oblivious to something for the most part, is not at all the same as that something not existing.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    and also if all this is true... and everything is predetermined than why argue about anything? if that's the way it was meant to be than that's the way it was meant to be.... or at least that's what i'm getting from that point of view.
    because your programed from your past experiences to argue....to get what you need...physically and mentally
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    because your programed from your past experiences to argue....to get what you need...physically and mentally
    the way i see it... it doesn't make life any better to realize that, if there ever is a way to realize it. it's just a concept. an idea. maybe, perhaps, to help them sleep better too.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    if I'm following, kinda like a freight train..and were all part of it..and it will blast ahead...without our control?......I do dig that.
    My understanding is that we're all part of it, and we're all on board, for sure, by our being here, and living out this reality. Where we lose touch with "reality" is in our awareness--in our thinking, we perceive separation, when really we're all intricately interconnected. We all make choices all the time, and we all are constantly interacting completely at-one with the universe, despite our ignorance of this most of the time. We're doing it under the surface, all the time, as part of everything that exists.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    angelica wrote:
    We can process the here and now when we detach of our thoughts about what will happen or what has happened.

    Just because we are oblivious to something for the most part, is not at all the same as that something not existing.
    once you process the here and now its already the past....we have experiences then we process this information...skewed for sure. So I believe we're constantly percieving what happened....1 second to 50 years. Always a memory....course we do anticipate the future based on our past.....so past and future...no "now".
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    once you process the here and now its already the past....we have experiences then we process this information...skewed for sure. So I believe we're constantly percieving what happened....1 second to 50 years. Always a memory....course we do anticipate the future based on our past.....so past and future...no "now".
    Again, there is a different between our perception of things (that is out of synch based on our filters) and with what actually exists. The here and now is all we have. We are never in the future and we're never in the past. We are always in the Now. Yes, the vast majority is out of touch with the now, and lives in their thoughts and memories.

    People learn to transcend their thoughts and get in touch with Now and reality. Granted, it's a very, very slim minority.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    angelica wrote:
    My understanding is that we're all part of it, and we're all on board, for sure, by our being here, and living out this reality. Where we lose touch with "reality" is in our awareness--in our thinking, we perceive separation, when really we're all intricately interconnected. We all make choices all the time, and we all are constantly interacting completely at-one with the universe, despite our ignorance of this most of the time. We're doing it under the surface, all the time, as part of everything that exists.
    Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    angelica wrote:
    Again, there is a different between our perception of things (that is out of synch based on our filters) and with what actually exists. The here and now is all we have. We are never in the future and we're never in the past. We are always in the Now. Yes, the vast majority is out of touch with the now, and lives in their thoughts and memories.

    People learn to transcend their thoughts and get in touch with Now and reality. Granted, it's a very, very slim minority.
    its almost like infinitely small number...if I can correlate the two and make sense, struggled with the concept in math....feel were never here....and didn't mean to convey that we're living in the future...only that our minds can only process thoughts of what it thought happened and what it thinks will happen in the future. And no choices... (-:
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
    but you can choose to wear a white t-shirt, or a blue t-shirt, or a green t-shirt.... and still, even if you don't even care about your past experiences you could've still chosen to wear a long-sleeve shirt and a tie. or a suit. or hell, even a sweater. it's still a matter of choice.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    the way i see it... it doesn't make life any better to realize that, if there ever is a way to realize it. it's just a concept. an idea. maybe, perhaps, to help them sleep better too.
    you just have to experience...and enjoy..and not worry too much about why.......life is really cool.

    PS. I've had some pretty stark reply's to some of your posts in past....some wish I would have been cooler about it.... your even a fellow texan, that likes PJ....
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    its almost like infinitely small number...if I can correlate the two and make sense, struggled with the concept in math....feel were never here....and didn't mean to convey that we're living in the future...only that our minds can only process thoughts of what it thought happened and what it thinks will happen in the future. And no choices... (-:
    It's not our minds per se...it's our programming. As I say, we can transcend our programming and get into the eternal now--reality.

    I do understand what you are saying. And I agree it's our perception and not the reality. And it's very common. There are many books and disciplines that seek the Truth. One book is "The Power of Now", that is all about getting into our presence and existence. and Being. That's where our Power is. Most of us are entranced by our programming. We are not our programming, however. We are the ones who are perceiving through it--and since we are not it, we can learn to align with our truth beyond the programming.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    but you can choose to wear a white t-shirt, or a blue t-shirt, or a green t-shirt.... and still, even if you don't even care about your past experiences you could've still chosen to wear a long-sleeve shirt and a tie. or a suit. or hell, even a sweater. it's still a matter of choice.
    right but something in what happened to you in the past will dictate what you will ultimtely choose...you look at the green and say to yourself something to choose it...based on what happened in the past....chick or dude looked at you, your wearing black jeans and yellow will go, forecaster said it would be cold..so you know when he says that wear your longsleeve..etc. You could throw all your clothes in a pile...blindfold yourself and pick...that might work.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • jamtemplechains
    jamtemplechains Posts: 117
    i can't bring myself to put much stock in fate. it's a nice thought, but there are over 6 billion people in the world and no matter who or where you are, you're going to--at some point in your life--have the opportunity to meet countless people who become so significant to you you almost feel obligated to believe it was fate that brought you together. there are so many conceivable things to do and places to be, that when you've finally settled upon wherever you're going and what you want to do, it seems nice to say 'wow, this must be my fate.' in reality, you meet who you meet because they happen to be there, you do what you do because at some point you decided you wanted to, and you are where you are because you went there.
    why does it have to all be according to some supernatural and unexplainable cosmic plan? isn't it possible we deserve enough credit to be responsible for our own actions and consequences?
    Do you see the way that tree bends?
    Does it inspire?
    Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
    A lesson to be applied.

    Best night of my life. . .
    Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.

    myspace.com/justonemorebottle
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    right but something in what happened to you in the past will dictate what you will ultimtely choose...you look at the green and say to yourself something to choose it...based on what happened in the past....chick or dude looked at you, your wearing black jeans and yellow will go, forecaster said it would be cold..so you know when he says that wear your longsleeve..etc. You could throw all your clothes in a pile...blindfold yourself and pick...that might work.
    but i can still say, i love the cold weather.... i'll go with a t-shirt today.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    Know I've already written this...and you read a disagreed.....but I really don't think we have any choices...all predetermined from our past experiences. Goes all the way to what you wore this morning........I'm being forced to use public trans. to get to work (actually liberating) so I knew being in houston I'd be sweating my nalgas off so I wore a shirt that would work..based on my past experiences....the color of shirt tonight....based on my experiences...how I greet a stranger..and on and on. Now I'm not saying my actions are set in stone for a future event no....everything you experience plays into what you will decide in the future...but at that moment...you have no choice on what you will wear....I know I ran this out...its late.
    I will agree that when we are not aware with how to access our power, we will continue to be unempowered. It's the basic state for the average person...with that I can agree.

    When the drop of water REALizes it's the ocean, that's when it expands it's awareness and REALizes it's power--making it real. We can align with our petty individuality, and our separation and illusions, or we can focus in on being one with that which has Predetermined.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    angelica wrote:
    It's not our minds per se...it's our programming. As I say, we can transcend our programming and get into the eternal now--reality.

    I do understand what you are saying. And I agree it's our perception and not the reality. And it's very common. There are many books and disciplines that seek the Truth. One book is "The Power of Now", that is all about getting into our presence and existence. and Being. That's where our Power is. Most of us are entranced by our programming. We are not our programming, however. We are the ones who are perceiving through it--and since we are not it, we can learn to align with our truth beyond the programming.

    I've not read or done any research on my position and should....can maybe kinda see if one could get into a place of blocking out all inputs, not that I know if and how that's acheived, maybe there's a possibility of getting to now....but as soon as you start thinking.....BAM past.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    callen wrote:
    you just have to experience...and enjoy..and not worry too much about why.......life is really cool.

    PS. I've had some pretty stark reply's to some of your posts in past....some wish I would have been cooler about it.... your even a fellow texan, that likes PJ....
    yeah, exactly... everything is random to me, so i enjoy it's randomness... or try my best. i'll only go as far to say that everything that happens in life can work for a good cause... no matter what. but to say that everything is predetermined for me is too far out.

    i don't know what you mean by the stark reply's to my posts... you mean the one you said about why i believe in god??? the weird one that said, "it's okay... it's okayyayyya"
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    but i can still say, i love the cold weather.... i'll go with a t-shirt today.
    but will you? if you do there was something in your past that helped you make that choice.....can see it now.....Jan 15th and we get that rare blast of cold air...and my buddy deadnothingbetter say's..." I'll show that bastard on PJ board...I'm wearing a T-Shirt today, I'm in control" well not really....my memory to you....the past had you freeze you butt off.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG

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