Lisbon Treaty?
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            Stupid Sinn Féin. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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 I knowRhinocerous Surprise wrote:Stupid Sinn Féin.  .  I don't think the media are actually unbiased at all... anytime I've seen mention of the no vote, it's to do with Sinn Fein or this group who are allegedly nazis or something.  Gay Byrne's statement was described as a 'rant' immediately belittling him. .  I don't think the media are actually unbiased at all... anytime I've seen mention of the no vote, it's to do with Sinn Fein or this group who are allegedly nazis or something.  Gay Byrne's statement was described as a 'rant' immediately belittling him.
 Jenny, ignore the posters and all the bullshit... but please please please read up on this and please vote WHICHEVER way you decide... cos it's seriously important. If it were a general election I'd say that's your prerogative... but this really WILL shape Irelands future and could potentially have DISASTROUS consequences depending on who's in power in the future... cos they'll be able to make all the choices.The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
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            Heineken Helen wrote:I know .  I don't think the media are actually unbiased at all... anytime I've seen mention of the no vote, it's to do with Sinn Fein or this group who are allegedly nazis or something.  Gay Byrne's statement was described as a 'rant' immediately belittling him. .  I don't think the media are actually unbiased at all... anytime I've seen mention of the no vote, it's to do with Sinn Fein or this group who are allegedly nazis or something.  Gay Byrne's statement was described as a 'rant' immediately belittling him.
 Jenny, ignore the posters and all the bullshit... but please please please read up on this and please vote WHICHEVER way you decide... cos it's seriously important. If it were a general election I'd say that's your prerogative... but this really WILL shape Irelands future and could potentially have DISASTROUS consequences depending on who's in power in the future... cos they'll be able to make all the choices.
 Put it this way: if the Lisbon Treaty goes through, that means Sinn Féin might one day be able to make decisions without consulting the Irish people. 
 I really don't think either side has been giving the public sufficient access to the real info on this. Everyone's just trying to shout down the opposition, and it's just turned into a contest, rather than a significant decision on Ireland's future.Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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 Absolutely... every fucking time we have a referendum, it's the same story! I mean you have 2 posters:Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:Put it this way: if the Lisbon Treaty goes through, that means Sinn Féin might one day be able to make decisions without consulting the Irish people. 
 I really don't think either side has been giving the public sufficient access to the real info on this. Everyone's just trying to shout down the opposition, and it's just turned into a contest, rather than a significant decision on Ireland's future.
 'vote no for jobs, neutrality and power'
 'vote yes for jobs, neutrality and power'
 :eek: It's like abortion all over again. The only advice (Jenny, I hope you're still reading ) is don't listen to either side... don't even listen to me... but I can tell you it is a huge vote.  Do please please please make an effort to figure out what it's all about for yourself.  There are links in this thread... or even just do a google search.                        The Astoria??? Orgazmic! ) is don't listen to either side... don't even listen to me... but I can tell you it is a huge vote.  Do please please please make an effort to figure out what it's all about for yourself.  There are links in this thread... or even just do a google search.                        The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote:Absolutely... every fucking time we have a referendum, it's the same story! I mean you have 2 posters:
 'vote no for jobs, neutrality and power'
 'vote yes for jobs, neutrality and power'
 :eek: It's like abortion all over again. The only advice (Jenny, I hope you're still reading ) is don't listen to either side... don't even listen to me... but I can tell you it is a huge vote.  Do please please please make an effort to figure out what it's all about for yourself.  There are links in this thread... or even just do a google search. ) is don't listen to either side... don't even listen to me... but I can tell you it is a huge vote.  Do please please please make an effort to figure out what it's all about for yourself.  There are links in this thread... or even just do a google search.
 Exactly - if you ARE voting (and everyone should ), don't let politicians make your mind up for you. I don't trust Sinn Féin, and I sure don't trust Fianna Fáil - but this is bigger than any one party. ), don't let politicians make your mind up for you. I don't trust Sinn Féin, and I sure don't trust Fianna Fáil - but this is bigger than any one party.
 End of public service announcement. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:Exactly - if you ARE voting (and everyone should ), don't let politicians make your mind up for you. I don't trust Sinn Féin, and I sure don't trust Fianna Fáil - but this is bigger than any one party. ), don't let politicians make your mind up for you. I don't trust Sinn Féin, and I sure don't trust Fianna Fáil - but this is bigger than any one party.
 End of public service announcement.   
 meet ya after work and we'll go campaigning? The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote:  
 meet ya after work and we'll go campaigning?  I can just imagine it... I can just imagine it...
 You: So... how do you think you'll vote on the Lisbon Treaty?
 Guy on the street: Um... probably "yes". I don't like Sinn Féin.
 Me: (Blares klaxon in the guy's face) WRONG!
 Then later, we settle for bribing people with delicious cake. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:: D I can just imagine it...
 You: So... how do you think you'll vote on the Lisbon Treaty?
 Guy on the street: Um... probably "yes". I don't like Sinn Féin.
 Me: (Blares klaxon in the guy's face) WRONG!
 Then later, we settle for bribing people with delicious cake. : D cake... yes cake would work!  Or we just go scaremongering... 'if you vote yes, sinn fein will be running the country' - that's bound to win at least 2% of the undecideds... of the other 98%, 2% will see right through our tactics and the other 96% simply won't give a fuck cake... yes cake would work!  Or we just go scaremongering... 'if you vote yes, sinn fein will be running the country' - that's bound to win at least 2% of the undecideds... of the other 98%, 2% will see right through our tactics and the other 96% simply won't give a fuck .  Apparently 50% are undecided right now :eek: that's a lot of people we can get around .  Apparently 50% are undecided right now :eek: that's a lot of people we can get around and I think the rest are half and half so chances are only a quarter of the people we chat to will be hostile yes's and I think the rest are half and half so chances are only a quarter of the people we chat to will be hostile yes's The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote: cake... yes cake would work!  Or we just go scaremongering... 'if you vote yes, sinn fein will be running the country' - that's bound to win at least 2% of the undecideds... of the other 98%, 2% will see right through our tactics and the other 96% simply won't give a fuck : D .  Apparently 50% are undecided right now :eek: that's a lot of people we can get around : )  and I think the rest are half and half so chances are only a quarter of the people we chat to will be hostile yes's cake... yes cake would work!  Or we just go scaremongering... 'if you vote yes, sinn fein will be running the country' - that's bound to win at least 2% of the undecideds... of the other 98%, 2% will see right through our tactics and the other 96% simply won't give a fuck : D .  Apparently 50% are undecided right now :eek: that's a lot of people we can get around : )  and I think the rest are half and half so chances are only a quarter of the people we chat to will be hostile yes's 
 That was far too many numbers for mine feeble brain, but I saw the word cake in there again, so I'm sold. 
 But hey, if we're going for scaremongering, why not go all out? "If you vote yes, Gerry Adams will eat your firstborn." It's not inconceivable, and that's where we get them! Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:That was far too many numbers for mine feeble brain, but I saw the word cake in there again, so I'm sold. 
 But hey, if we're going for scaremongering, why not go all out? "If you vote yes, Gerry Adams will eat your firstborn." It's not inconceivable, and that's where we get them!  I like where we're going with this... I don't understand why, in order to get people to vote no, Sinn Fein didn't just put up yes posters with sinn fein on them I like where we're going with this... I don't understand why, in order to get people to vote no, Sinn Fein didn't just put up yes posters with sinn fein on them .  That definitely would have worked .  That definitely would have worked The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote: I like where we're going with this... I don't understand why, in order to get people to vote no, Sinn Fein didn't just put up yes posters with sinn fein on them I like where we're going with this... I don't understand why, in order to get people to vote no, Sinn Fein didn't just put up yes posters with sinn fein on them .  That definitely would have worked .  That definitely would have worked Yes on Lisbon: Sinn Féin would do it - would you? Yes on Lisbon: Sinn Féin would do it - would you?
 This message was brought to you by Sinn Féin Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:Yes on Lisbon: Sinn Féin would do it - would you?
 This message was brought to you by Sinn Féin  Now we just need about 5,000 of them printed and we're flying Now we just need about 5,000 of them printed and we're flying The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote: Now we just need about 5,000 of them printed and we're flying Now we just need about 5,000 of them printed and we're flying 
 I'll get right on it - using the college printers, that should only cost me... €400. 
 Maybe we should stick to word of mouth for now.  Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:I'll get right on it - using the college printers, that should only cost me... €400. : p
 Maybe we should stick to word of mouth for now.   where's Jenny gone? where's Jenny gone?
 Neil???? Neil? 
 Just tell us you're voting no... and only because of the information provided in this thread. Of course we neither care nor will ever know whether you vote or not... but if it makes us happy for 10 seconds, where's the harm? The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote: where's Jenny gone? where's Jenny gone?
 Neil???? Neil? 
 Just tell us you're voting no... and only because of the information provided in this thread. Of course we neither care nor will ever know whether you vote or not... but if it makes us happy for 10 seconds, where's the harm? 
 Hell, any Americans or whoever that want to just say they would vote no, if they could, I'll give 'em a nice kiss 'round the lips. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:Hell, any Americans or whoever that want to just say they would vote no, if they could, I'll give 'em a nice kiss 'round the lips.  yeh, cos I feel this thread is kinda pointless now.  We've lost jordy I feel to the dark side... Jenny's not gonna come back to read what we said and Neil's not gonna bother looking at all yeh, cos I feel this thread is kinda pointless now.  We've lost jordy I feel to the dark side... Jenny's not gonna come back to read what we said and Neil's not gonna bother looking at all this should probably be on the AET this should probably be on the AET The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote: yeh, cos I feel this thread is kinda pointless now.  We've lost jordy I feel to the dark side... Jenny's not gonna come back to read what we said and Neil's not gonna bother looking at all yeh, cos I feel this thread is kinda pointless now.  We've lost jordy I feel to the dark side... Jenny's not gonna come back to read what we said and Neil's not gonna bother looking at all this should probably be on the AET this should probably be on the AET 
 I'll just send pit-wide PMs promising that kiss to anyone who pays attention to us. Lucky for you, you've disqualified yourself by already having decided to vote no. Lucky for you, you've disqualified yourself by already having decided to vote no. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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            Campaigners call for Lisbon 'No' vote
 Elaine Edwards
 An alliance of groups campaigning for a No vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum has claimed there is “no truth” in the assertion by senior trade union figures that a Yes vote will give more rights to Irish workers.
 The Campaign Against the EU Constitution, an alliance of 13 groups and individuals including Sinn Fén and the Socialist Party, today opened its campaign claiming Lisbon “offers nothing” to the Irish people.
 It called on Ictu general secretary David Begg and Blair Horan of the CPSU to state how the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which would be made binding under Lisbon, would protect workers.
 Spokesman for the campaign group Brendan Young said: “David Begg and Blair Horan are leading people to believe that the Charter of Fundamental Rights would give us more rights and that it would prevent another Laval ruling by the European Court of Justice. We are of the opinion, supported by legal advice, that there is no truth in these claims. We call on Mr Begg and Mr Horan to say precisely how the Charter would prevent another Laval ruling.”
 The Laval case accepted that the right to strike is a fundamental right, but not as fundamental a right as that of businesses to supply cross-border services.
 The group also claimed Article 188c of the Lisbon Treaty would remove the veto on international trade agreements in health, education and social services “in all but exceptional, undefined circumstances”.
 “Trade in public services leads to privatisation, service charges and two-tier services – especially in health and education,” the group said.
 The campaigners also claimed Lisbon would accelerate the “militarisation of the EU”.
 “Article 28 commits the EU to a ‘common defence’, even if by unanimous agreement. But if we vote for this treaty, we are tied into a commitment to increase military spending. We could also be pressed to give military support to another Member State, or to a non-EU state, in what EU leaders call the fight against terrorism.”
 “Lisbon would allow a group of well-armed states to form a military alliance within the EU in cooperation with US-dominated Nato. The remaining states would have no say in the workings of this group, but its actions would inevitably affect us all. Lisbon reinforces EU-Nato links and gives the US more influence over European foreign policy. Yet the Treaty would not require a UN mandate for EU military action."
 It was also claimed that additional powers given to the European Parliament under the Lisbon Treaty “do not redress the lack of accountability of the Commission, nor the enshrinement of neoliberal and militarising policies in treaties we cannot change”.
 “If we don’t like our government, we can vote them out. But we can’t change EU treaties once they’re in place. Lisbon offers nothing to ordinary people and would give us less control.”
 Those affiliated to the group are: Communist Party of Ireland; Community & Workers Action Group, Crumlin; Éirígí; Irish Anti-war Movement; Irish Republican Socialist Party; Irish Socialist Network; Peace and Neutrality Alliance; People Before Profit Alliance; People’s Movement; Sinn Fein; Socialist Party; Socialist Workers Party and the Workers Party.
 © 2008 ireland.com
 http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0520/breaking49.htmSmokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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 FINALLY some truth! I was just thinking this morning that neither side actually refers to the treaty in any of their arguments or indicates exactly what the fuck they're talking about... this link gives good information! Now let's wait for the 'yes' retaliation, which will probably simply be 'it's all lies', coming from the side that hasn't even READ the bloody thingRhinocerous Surprise wrote:
 “If we don’t like our government, we can vote them out. But we can’t change EU treaties once they’re in place. Lisbon offers nothing to ordinary people and would give us less control.” The Astoria??? Orgazmic! The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
 Verona??? it's all surmountable
 Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
 Wembley? We all believe!
 Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
 Chicago 07? And love
 What a different life
 Had I not found this love with you0
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            Heineken Helen wrote:FINALLY some truth! I was just thinking this morning that neither side actually refers to the treaty in any of their arguments or indicates exactly what the fuck they're talking about... this link gives good information! Now let's wait for the 'yes' retaliation, which will probably simply be 'it's all lies', coming from the side that hasn't even READ the bloody thing 
 Brian Cowen will probably just call us "fuckers" under his breath. Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0 Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.0
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