Lisbon Treaty?

Rhinocerous Surprise

Heineken Helen wrote:

thats why many people are voting no. I was glad to see those results this morning too... although polls tend to have their purposes

TBH, I really don't think the government WANTS us to vote yes... only they can't push for a no vote.

I heard that Labour's "support" of the treaty is basically just Eamonn Gilmore putting up some posters around Dublin. Apparently, the rest of Labour don't want it to go through at all. I love it when good sense prevails.

I just hope all this positivity doesn't come crashing down around my fragile elbows next Friday.

Rhinocerous Surprise

catefrances wrote:

just as i thought... the blah blah blah argument.
make europe better. better than what?

Not just blah blah blah... They also throw in the obligatory "Anyone who doesn't say blah blah blah is SCAREMONGERING!!!

Heineken Helen

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I heard that Labour's "support" of the treaty is basically just Eamonn Gilmore putting up some posters around Dublin. Apparently, the rest of Labour don't want it to go through at all. I love it when good sense prevails.

I just hope all this positivity doesn't come crashing down around my fragile elbows next Friday.

look at Cowan saying that anyone in FF HAS to support the treaty basically if they want a job :eek:

catefrances

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Not just blah blah blah... They also throw in the obligatory "Anyone who doesn't say blah blah blah is SCAREMONGERING!!!

ooh ive always wanted to do a bit of mongering.

wonder if i have the right of return to ireland like the jews do to israel? can you peeps get a vote going on that... thanks.

Heineken Helen

catefrances wrote:

ooh ive always wanted to do a bit of mongering.

wonder if i have the right of return to ireland like the jews do to israel? can you peeps get a vote going on that... thanks.

Not if we vote yes we can't

Rhinocerous Surprise

Heineken Helen wrote:

look at Cowan saying that anyone in FF HAS to support the treaty basically if they want a job :eek:

He's gonna have a hard time keeping any sort of credibility in the Dáil if it doesn't go through. I bet Fine Gael are eating this up.

Along with the entire rest of the country.

Also, I definitely get to vote. Just found out today.

Rhinocerous Surprise

catefrances wrote:

ooh ive always wanted to do a bit of mongering.

wonder if i have the right of return to ireland like the jews do to israel? can you peeps get a vote going on that... thanks.

Hey, if God tells you to return, who can object?

Heineken Helen

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

He's gonna have a hard time keeping any sort of credibility in the Dáil if it doesn't go through. I bet Fine Gael are eating this up.

Along with the entire rest of the country.

Also, I definitely get to vote. Just found out today.

that's excellent... and yeh, I love the way Cowan accused FG of not doing enough wtf? They're not the ones in government, lol.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Heineken Helen wrote:

that's excellent... and yeh, I love the way Cowan accused FG of not doing enough wtf? They're not the ones in government, lol.

I firmly expect Brian Cowan will spontaneously combust at some point in the next two weeks.

(Actually, for "firmly expect", you could probably substitute "really, really hope"...)

catefrances

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Hey, if God tells you to return, who can object?

God dont talk to me anymore. he thinks i ignore him just cause im an atheist.

Rhinocerous Surprise

catefrances wrote:

God dont talk to me anymore. he thinks i ignore him just cause im an atheist.

God: what an attention whore.

catefrances

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

God: what an attention whore.

totally. :rolleyes:

puremagic

If I get wrong correct me with a point in the right direction. This is so interesting and Helen you're right, the Lisbon Treaty will have global impact because it will introduce the world to another superpower known as the EU. My only interest on the EU was the uniform currency. I'm like thank you Europe. I didn't need to or try to look deeper on the formation of the EU.

The EU is established as independent entity with its own
-flag,
-anthem,
-founding date
-currency
- an a common foreign and security policy in its dealings with other nations.

sounds to me like the EU has position itself an independent entity with the necessary nation-like qualities to expand itself into its own Federation.

It appears that under the Lisbon Treaty member nations will become more like a South Korea status type nation, in that they maintain their sovereignty as it relates to local and domestic affairs, however, matters of foreign diplomacy, trade, military and judicial importance are decided through the EU leadership of France, Germany and the UK = US input. In some cases, independent nations under the EU will have little or not input and the EU is not bound by their input.

Seems to me that the emerging nations of the former Soviet bloc benefit greatly, especially say, Poland, whereas, Ireland can become simply an extension of or lost in the voice UK policies. I only say the U.K, because I believe the U.K. would not let another nation impose anything upon Ireland without its knowledge or approval simply to protect their own interest.

It will be interesting to see where the EU is in five years. It could mean the dissolvement of NATO.

Heineken Helen

puremagic wrote:

It appears that under the Lisbon Treaty member nations will become more like a South Korea status type nation, in that they maintain their sovereignty as it relates to local and domestic affairs, however, matters of foreign diplomacy, trade, military and judicial importance are decided through the EU leadership of France, Germany and the UK = US input. In some cases, independent nations under the EU will have little or not input and the EU is not bound by their input.

Seems to me that the emerging nations of the former Soviet bloc benefit greatly, especially say, Poland, whereas, Ireland can become simply an extension of or lost in the voice UK policies. I only say the U.K, because I believe the U.K. would not let another nation impose anything upon Ireland without its knowledge or approval simply to protect their own interest.

It will be interesting to see where the EU is in five years. It could mean the dissolvement of NATO.

that's a very good observation and worded much better than I coulda done. Definitely it makes it far too easy for the bigger nations to form alliances and also for the former soviet nations. And yep, we will simply vote as the UK vote Who knows where or how this could end up.

catefrances

puremagic wrote:

It will be interesting to see where the EU is in five years. It could mean the dissolvement of NATO.

the US will not allow the dissolution of NATO.

Heineken Helen

anyone else NOT get their poll cards yet? I haven't got mine and it's just three days to go... although I think with the general election, I just got it a couple of days before also.

Heineken Helen

It's ok I got my poll card.

Anyone see the debate last night? Michael Martin came across like a school kid huffing and puffing... Kenny... what a plank... yeh, so Lisbon makes the national parliament and europe stronger... we KNOW that... the issue is that it makes the people weaker and gives pretty much ALL our power to the government :mad:

I don't like her but thought Mary Lou did a good job... til they started mentioning SF policies and she obviously wasn't prepared for that. But until then she was giving pretty reasoned and clear explanations... I didn't like the other guy though... and some of the no people in the audience freaked me out

Heineken Helen

It's interesting to read foreign press:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3401015,00.html

'Kenny disagreed, saying it would be irresponsible and wrong for anyone to claim a "No" vote would not have adverse consequences for Ireland.

"The first victims would be the Irish," said French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Ireland's booming "Celtic Tiger" economy has long been lauded as an example of the benefits of EU membership.'

Nice :rolleyes:

Heineken Helen

Canada thinks we're ungrateful bastards thanks Canada!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080610.COSIMP10/TPStory/National

'Gratitude, it would appear, is in short supply.'

Heineken Helen

well the wall st. journal seems to agree with us... no surprise there

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121304663984058567.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

'If consulting the people means that integration must be held back or reversed, so be it. Democracy is an end in itself.

It is not easy to define when referendums about European integration are appropriate. But given that the general thrust of EU integration has been to take powers away from national parliaments, genuine democrats should probably err on the side of calling referendums more often than not. Whichever way the Irish go this week, they can at least be proud their country has given them a choice. The rest of Europe looks on in envy.'