Minster for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin says that none of the other EU states have pointed the finger of blame at the Irish Government over the defeat of the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
Speaking after a meeting of foreign ministers in Luxembourg, he said all the states wanted to work with Ireland to find a solution to the situation.
He told a news conference that solidarity was the overwhelming message given to him by the other ministers at today's meeting.
He said there was no talk of the other 26 states going ahead and leaving Ireland behind. In particular, he said, German foreign minster Frank Walter Steinmeyer told him that Germany wanted to work with Ireland.
He said there had been no discussion of putting the Lisbon Treaty to another referendum, nor of any changes to the treaty text or its implementation that may be made.
Mr Martin said Ireland was a strong supporter of a deeper EU with a stronger global role and did not want to be left behind.
Arriving to host the talks earlier, Slovenian Foreign Minister Dimitrij Rupel said it was time for 'a little bit of thinking and analysis'.
'It would be risky to say we are going to bring the treaty back to life when we are facing a blockade,' he added.
Minister for European Affairs Dick Roche, who was meeting other EU ministers at bi-lateral meetings in Luxembourg, said there was a real sense of crisis over the Irish rejection of the treaty.
The two-day EU leaders' summit in Brussels on Thursday is expected to chart the way ahead for Ireland.
'New arrangements' possible, says McCreevy
Earlier, EU Internal Market Commissioner Charlie McCreevy conceded that the treaty as it was intended cannot now come into force following Ireland's rejection.
Speaking on RTE Radio's News at One, he said neither the Irish people nor the Government could be 'bullied' following the result, which had to be respected by the EU.
However, Mr McCreevy said it was possible that what he described as 'new arrangements' could be made - ones which would be in the best interests of Ireland and the EU.
On the same programme, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said the political crux would come if the other 26 member states had ratified the treaty and Ireland had not.
Yesterday, Mr Cowen said the Government and the EU were in uncharted territory in the wake of the referendum result.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Minster for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin says that none of the other EU states have pointed the finger of blame at the Irish Government over the defeat of the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
Speaking after a meeting of foreign ministers in Luxembourg, he said all the states wanted to work with Ireland to find a solution to the situation.
He told a news conference that solidarity was the overwhelming message given to him by the other ministers at today's meeting.
He said there was no talk of the other 26 states going ahead and leaving Ireland behind. In particular, he said, German foreign minster Frank Walter Steinmeyer told him that Germany wanted to work with Ireland.
He said there had been no discussion of putting the Lisbon Treaty to another referendum, nor of any changes to the treaty text or its implementation that may be made.
Mr Martin said Ireland was a strong supporter of a deeper EU with a stronger global role and did not want to be left behind.
Arriving to host the talks earlier, Slovenian Foreign Minister Dimitrij Rupel said it was time for 'a little bit of thinking and analysis'.
'It would be risky to say we are going to bring the treaty back to life when we are facing a blockade,' he added.
Minister for European Affairs Dick Roche, who was meeting other EU ministers at bi-lateral meetings in Luxembourg, said there was a real sense of crisis over the Irish rejection of the treaty.
The two-day EU leaders' summit in Brussels on Thursday is expected to chart the way ahead for Ireland.
'New arrangements' possible, says McCreevy
Earlier, EU Internal Market Commissioner Charlie McCreevy conceded that the treaty as it was intended cannot now come into force following Ireland's rejection.
Speaking on RTE Radio's News at One, he said neither the Irish people nor the Government could be 'bullied' following the result, which had to be respected by the EU.
However, Mr McCreevy said it was possible that what he described as 'new arrangements' could be made - ones which would be in the best interests of Ireland and the EU.
On the same programme, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said the political crux would come if the other 26 member states had ratified the treaty and Ireland had not.
Yesterday, Mr Cowen said the Government and the EU were in uncharted territory in the wake of the referendum result.
hmmm, this doesn't sound so drastic, does it...:)
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Even those who voted Yes in last week’s Lisbon Treaty referendum believed the ‘No’ campaign was more convincing, an EU survey has found.
A telephone poll commissioned by the European Commission in conjunction with the Taoiseach’s office after the rejection of the treaty showed a large majority (68 per cent) of Irish voters believed the No campaign to be more convincing.
Some 57 per cent of those who voted Yes said the No campaign was more persuasive, compared to 29 per cent who said they were more convinced by the No side of the debate.
Just over a fifth (21 per cent) of voters changed their mind on how to vote during the campaign, but some 68 per cent said they did not change their initial view.
Those who voted yes were more likely to have changed their mind in the course of the campaign (25 per cent compared to 17 per cent of No voters).
“If we look at the ‘switchers’ within the Yes and No voters, we can say that for whatever complex reasons, the Yes campaign convinced more people to change their minds,” the commission said in the published survey.
Half of the Yes voters believed the outcome of the referendum would harm the economy, while just 17 per cent of the No voters held this view.
Some 76 per cent of the randomly selected 2,000 respondents aged 18 and over said they believed the result would put Ireland in a strong position to renegotiate the Lisbon Treaty.
Those who voted Yes did so for various reasons, including feeling that it was in Ireland’s best interest (32 per cent), that Ireland benefits from the EU (19 per cent), that it would help the economy (9 per cent) and keep Ireland engaged in Europe (9 per cent).
The main reason given by No voters for their decision was what they believed to be a lack of information about the treaty (22 per cent) followed by the desire to protect Irish identity (12 per cent).
Initial results of the survey taken from June 13th to June 15th were released earlier this week.
Even those who voted Yes in last week’s Lisbon Treaty referendum believed the ‘No’ campaign was more convincing, an EU survey has found.
A telephone poll commissioned by the European Commission in conjunction with the Taoiseach’s office after the rejection of the treaty showed a large majority (68 per cent) of Irish voters believed the No campaign to be more convincing.
Some 57 per cent of those who voted Yes said the No campaign was more persuasive, compared to 29 per cent who said they were more convinced by the No side of the debate.
Just over a fifth (21 per cent) of voters changed their mind on how to vote during the campaign, but some 68 per cent said they did not change their initial view.
Those who voted yes were more likely to have changed their mind in the course of the campaign (25 per cent compared to 17 per cent of No voters).
“If we look at the ‘switchers’ within the Yes and No voters, we can say that for whatever complex reasons, the Yes campaign convinced more people to change their minds,” the commission said in the published survey.
Half of the Yes voters believed the outcome of the referendum would harm the economy, while just 17 per cent of the No voters held this view.
Some 76 per cent of the randomly selected 2,000 respondents aged 18 and over said they believed the result would put Ireland in a strong position to renegotiate the Lisbon Treaty.
Those who voted Yes did so for various reasons, including feeling that it was in Ireland’s best interest (32 per cent), that Ireland benefits from the EU (19 per cent), that it would help the economy (9 per cent) and keep Ireland engaged in Europe (9 per cent).
The main reason given by No voters for their decision was what they believed to be a lack of information about the treaty (22 per cent) followed by the desire to protect Irish identity (12 per cent).
Initial results of the survey taken from June 13th to June 15th were released earlier this week.
well, similiar to france and netherlands it seems the no-side was better organised and putting more effort into their campaign, with the government too lazy to inform the people. They might think that the benefits are too obvious to everybody, I don't know.
The re-negotiation part is intersting, too...
Guess that's what's happening...but mainly the irish are asked now to make some input...
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Cos I just got a cheque for €440 for one day's work. Hell, gimme a third and fourth referendum if they want.
Hahahaha ya robbing bastard
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
wouldn't it be ironic if Germany didn't ratify it I like the Polish comments though
Angela Merkel, German chancellor, has offered France her full support as Paris seeks to salvage the European Union's Lisbon reform treaty.
Speaking after Tuesday's announcement that Lech Kaczynski, Polish president, would not sign the treaty, Ms Merkel told Bild newspaper: "Together with the French presidency [of the EU], we will do all we can to bring the ratification process forward."
Mr Kaczynski said it would be "pointless" for him to finalise Poland's ratification of the Lisbon treaty after it was rejected by Irish voters in a referendum last month. The treaty, which aims to overhaul the workings of the 27-member EU, needs to be approved by all member states before it can take effect.
Frank-Walter Steinmeier, German foreign minister, echoed the chancellor, saying: "Lisbon is the best foundation for a strong Europe acting self-confidently in the world. That is why we need to preserve it. The French presidency is working towards this goal and it can count on our full support."
Yet legal disputes are delaying German ratification and there are doubts as to whether Europe's largest member state will endorse the text by January, when it is due to come into force.
Horst Köhler, the German president, said this week he would not sign the ratification document, which has already been approved by parliament, until the country's constitutional court had ruled on several challenges to the text.
Although Mr Köhler is not an opponent of the treaty, Germany's situation is in practice little different from that of Poland, where parliament has also ratified the text, which all large parties support.
The constitutional court has promised a speedy review of the legal challenges but a date has yet to be set for the initial hearing.
Members of Ms Merkel's Christian Democratic Union and of the Social Democratic party, junior partner in her coalition, have criticised the president's decision, saying it sent the wrong signal to the rest of Europe after the Irish referendum.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Czech President Vaclav Klaus said he hopes the Czech Republic's highest court or its senate will block ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.
'I hope that the Constitutional Court or Senate will not allow adoption of the Lisbon Treaty here,' Mr Klaus, who is well known for his euroscepticism, told the Lidove Noviny newspaper.
Mr Klaus also hit out at French efforts to put the treaty back on the ratification track after its rejection by Irish voters last month. France took over the rotating EU presidency on Tuesday.
'I expect a lot of pressure to create a European Union 'a la France',' he said. 'Our view is necessarily different and therefore we must make an effort that the European Union does not develop in the way France and the refused Lisbon Treaty is pushing for.'
The Czech head of state backed Polish counterpart Lech Kaczynski's declaration on Tuesday that he will not sign the Lisbon Treaty, but he refused to say in the interview if he would do likewise himself.
While some EU member states are keen to push on quickly with ratification, the Czech Republic is a notable exception, with a strong faction within the senior governing party, the Civic Democrats, sharing Mr Klaus's viewpoint.
EU leaders had to accommodate Prague's reservations at their recent summit in Brussels.
Ratification of the Lisbon Treaty is currently stalled in the Czech Republic while its highest court examines whether it is in conformity with the nation's constitution.
The Civic Democrats have an overall majority in the upper house of parliament, the Senate, and thus could block ratification of the treaty there, political analysts say.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
We seem to have stirred up something of a hornet's nest. Excellent.
hopefully. It doesn't look like this will go away as easily as sarkozy/merkel/barossa/etc. had so arrogantly presumed
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
hopefully. It doesn't look like this will go away as easily as sarkozy/merkel/barossa/etc. had so arrogantly presumed
If Germany don't ratify it, there's gonna be a problem. If they do, and Poland don't, I get the feeling two-tier Europe is still gonna be on the table. But it'll probably just come down to rewording the treaty a little bit, calling it something vaguely unrecognisable. And I'll still vote no, cos I can't see them fixing everything people had a problem with, especially the self-amending part, since that got absolutely no press.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
If Germany don't ratify it, there's gonna be a problem. If they do, and Poland don't, I get the feeling two-tier Europe is still gonna be on the table. But it'll probably just come down to rewording the treaty a little bit, calling it something vaguely unrecognisable. And I'll still vote no, cos I can't see them fixing everything people had a problem with, especially the self-amending part, since that got absolutely no press.
Agreed... there were too many flaws... mainly the entire fucking thing! So, short of rewriting it in a comprehensible language, there's not much they could do to convince ME.
I'm sure Germany WILL ratify it indeed... it's just funny with Merkel and all her talk that they haven't yet.
I don't think Europe would give a fuck about Ireland/Poland/Czech Republic doing our own thing :rolleyes:
Better start learning Polish and Czech then so
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Agreed... there were too many flaws... mainly the entire fucking thing! So, short of rewriting it in a comprehensible language, there's not much they could do to convince ME.
I'm sure Germany WILL ratify it indeed... it's just funny with Merkel and all her talk that they haven't yet.
I don't think Europe would give a fuck about Ireland/Poland/Czech Republic doing our own thing :rolleyes:
Better start learning Polish and Czech then so
You mean you haven't been learning Polish? How do you read the daily newspaper supplements?
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
You mean you haven't been learning Polish? How do you read the daily newspaper supplements?
:eek: You READ????????????????
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
MEP Gay Mitchell has questioned whether the Irish people should ever again be asked to adjudicate on complex European issues.
The Fine Gael MEP asked whether a referendum was "the right vehicle" for issues such as the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.
"People will say that he would say that, because he was on the losing side," Mr Mitchell told a Dail committee yesterday.
But he argued that now was "the time to lift the rock" on all matters. "We have to ask ourselves about this form of instrument of public policy," Mr Mitchell said. "Is a referendum the right vehicle?"
The Government had accepted the good faith of the Attorney General that a plebiscite was necessary on Lisbon, but Mr Mitchell said he doubted it was necessary for the whole document to be put to the people.
Some of the treaty could have been cleared by legislation, he said, and the rest put to the popular vote. He called for the Attorney General's advice on the subject to be made available to the joint committee on European scrutiny.
He added: "The last thing we need now is (French) President (Nicolas) Sarkozy riding into town with instructions and advice. What we need now is reflection by the Irish people themselves."
He also claimed that RTE's coverage of the Lisbon Treaty referendum was unintentionally unfair and called for an independent review of the role of the state broadcaster in its coverage of important issues.
"I really do believe that RTE's performance as a public service provider needs to be independently analysed."
Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin told the same committee, however, the Government does not tend to publish the Attorney General's view on matters before Cabinet. It was a long-standing precedent, he said.
Popular
Mr Martin said he believed in the referendum as a means of democratically determining the popular will.
"I think it is a Constitutional imperative anyway," he added.
"Just because you lose one doesn't mean you have to question the whole format."
He said he didn't think Mr Sarkozy intended to visit Ireland this month in the method suggested by MEP Mitchell. "I believe his commitment is genuine to resolve the difficulty."
Mr Mitchell called for an analysis of the effectiveness of the Referendum Commission, and that of the Forum on Europe, which was not communicating "beyond a certain elite".
Mr Martin said he personally thought the Referendum Commission had a reasonably good campaign.
- Senan Molony Deputy Political Editor
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I don't think Europe would give a fuck about Ireland/Poland/Czech Republic doing our own thing :rolleyes:
Better start learning Polish and Czech then so
as you make out certain countries as wise and noble and others as arrogant and oppressive...
a little fact about Poland: their conservative parties (which Kaczynski is a member of) were a major opponent to a !!!HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTA!!! in the european constitution/treaty, because they were afraid that some of the ethnic germans that were forced out of the country after WWII would sue them at the european court for their lost property...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
as you make out certain countries as wise and noble and others as arrogant and oppressive...
I'm not making anything out. I'm just commenting on how they're actually behaving in this instance.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Some of the treaty could have been cleared by legislation, he said, and the rest put to the popular vote.
I agree with this.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I find that you often tend to respond to the semantics of my posts rather than the factual content, but that's just me...
I am out of here for good, at least until there's some substantive news again...
m.
I don't understand why the REASON for a potential polish no vote is relevant in response to what I said? All I said is that the rest of Europe probably couldn't give a fuck about Ireland, Poland and Czech Republic... and your reply was to tell me the polish government's bad. Ya know, I think that's another reason Lisbon can't work. Europe is too different. EVERY country in Europe is vastly different... you can't put something to a vote that will change the dynamics of each and every country (mainly to suit the bigger countries) and expect every country to agree or accept it. Some of us don't work like that... and that's what MAKES europe so great is that every country is so different. I just wish France and Germany would stop trying to make us all... well... France and Germany.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0616/eulisbon.html?rss
Minster for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin says that none of the other EU states have pointed the finger of blame at the Irish Government over the defeat of the Lisbon Treaty referendum.
Speaking after a meeting of foreign ministers in Luxembourg, he said all the states wanted to work with Ireland to find a solution to the situation.
He told a news conference that solidarity was the overwhelming message given to him by the other ministers at today's meeting.
He said there was no talk of the other 26 states going ahead and leaving Ireland behind. In particular, he said, German foreign minster Frank Walter Steinmeyer told him that Germany wanted to work with Ireland.
He said there had been no discussion of putting the Lisbon Treaty to another referendum, nor of any changes to the treaty text or its implementation that may be made.
Mr Martin said Ireland was a strong supporter of a deeper EU with a stronger global role and did not want to be left behind.
Arriving to host the talks earlier, Slovenian Foreign Minister Dimitrij Rupel said it was time for 'a little bit of thinking and analysis'.
'It would be risky to say we are going to bring the treaty back to life when we are facing a blockade,' he added.
Minister for European Affairs Dick Roche, who was meeting other EU ministers at bi-lateral meetings in Luxembourg, said there was a real sense of crisis over the Irish rejection of the treaty.
The two-day EU leaders' summit in Brussels on Thursday is expected to chart the way ahead for Ireland.
'New arrangements' possible, says McCreevy
Earlier, EU Internal Market Commissioner Charlie McCreevy conceded that the treaty as it was intended cannot now come into force following Ireland's rejection.
Speaking on RTE Radio's News at One, he said neither the Irish people nor the Government could be 'bullied' following the result, which had to be respected by the EU.
However, Mr McCreevy said it was possible that what he described as 'new arrangements' could be made - ones which would be in the best interests of Ireland and the EU.
On the same programme, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said the political crux would come if the other 26 member states had ratified the treaty and Ireland had not.
Yesterday, Mr Cowen said the Government and the EU were in uncharted territory in the wake of the referendum result.
hmmm, this doesn't sound so drastic, does it...:)
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Yes voters 'convinced' by No campaign
Elaine Edwards
Even those who voted Yes in last week’s Lisbon Treaty referendum believed the ‘No’ campaign was more convincing, an EU survey has found.
A telephone poll commissioned by the European Commission in conjunction with the Taoiseach’s office after the rejection of the treaty showed a large majority (68 per cent) of Irish voters believed the No campaign to be more convincing.
Some 57 per cent of those who voted Yes said the No campaign was more persuasive, compared to 29 per cent who said they were more convinced by the No side of the debate.
Just over a fifth (21 per cent) of voters changed their mind on how to vote during the campaign, but some 68 per cent said they did not change their initial view.
Those who voted yes were more likely to have changed their mind in the course of the campaign (25 per cent compared to 17 per cent of No voters).
“If we look at the ‘switchers’ within the Yes and No voters, we can say that for whatever complex reasons, the Yes campaign convinced more people to change their minds,” the commission said in the published survey.
Half of the Yes voters believed the outcome of the referendum would harm the economy, while just 17 per cent of the No voters held this view.
Some 76 per cent of the randomly selected 2,000 respondents aged 18 and over said they believed the result would put Ireland in a strong position to renegotiate the Lisbon Treaty.
Those who voted Yes did so for various reasons, including feeling that it was in Ireland’s best interest (32 per cent), that Ireland benefits from the EU (19 per cent), that it would help the economy (9 per cent) and keep Ireland engaged in Europe (9 per cent).
The main reason given by No voters for their decision was what they believed to be a lack of information about the treaty (22 per cent) followed by the desire to protect Irish identity (12 per cent).
Initial results of the survey taken from June 13th to June 15th were released earlier this week.
The full report is available on the European Commission website.
© 2008 ireland.com
well, similiar to france and netherlands it seems the no-side was better organised and putting more effort into their campaign, with the government too lazy to inform the people. They might think that the benefits are too obvious to everybody, I don't know.
The re-negotiation part is intersting, too...
Guess that's what's happening...but mainly the irish are asked now to make some input...
that's a good poll by the way;)
EDIT: you should check out the full results here:
http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/flash_arch_en.htm#245
it's only 11 pages and the article quoted leaves out a lot of interesting stuff!
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Cos I just got a cheque for €440 for one day's work.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
And they said voting No would take us back to the poor times.
That said, I owe every last cent of it.
wouldn't it be ironic if Germany didn't ratify it
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0703/eulisbon.html
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If Germany don't ratify it, there's gonna be a problem. If they do, and Poland don't, I get the feeling two-tier Europe is still gonna be on the table. But it'll probably just come down to rewording the treaty a little bit, calling it something vaguely unrecognisable. And I'll still vote no, cos I can't see them fixing everything people had a problem with, especially the self-amending part, since that got absolutely no press.
I'm sure Germany WILL ratify it indeed... it's just funny with Merkel and all her talk that they haven't yet.
I don't think Europe would give a fuck about Ireland/Poland/Czech Republic doing our own thing :rolleyes:
Better start learning Polish and Czech then so
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
You mean you haven't been learning Polish? How do you read the daily newspaper supplements?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Of course - Viacom haven't started monitoring my newspaper-reading habits just yet.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/we-didnt-need-full-vote-on-lisbon-fg-1427509.html
By Senan Molony Deputy Political Editor
Friday July 04 2008
MEP Gay Mitchell has questioned whether the Irish people should ever again be asked to adjudicate on complex European issues.
The Fine Gael MEP asked whether a referendum was "the right vehicle" for issues such as the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.
"People will say that he would say that, because he was on the losing side," Mr Mitchell told a Dail committee yesterday.
But he argued that now was "the time to lift the rock" on all matters. "We have to ask ourselves about this form of instrument of public policy," Mr Mitchell said. "Is a referendum the right vehicle?"
The Government had accepted the good faith of the Attorney General that a plebiscite was necessary on Lisbon, but Mr Mitchell said he doubted it was necessary for the whole document to be put to the people.
Some of the treaty could have been cleared by legislation, he said, and the rest put to the popular vote. He called for the Attorney General's advice on the subject to be made available to the joint committee on European scrutiny.
He added: "The last thing we need now is (French) President (Nicolas) Sarkozy riding into town with instructions and advice. What we need now is reflection by the Irish people themselves."
He also claimed that RTE's coverage of the Lisbon Treaty referendum was unintentionally unfair and called for an independent review of the role of the state broadcaster in its coverage of important issues.
"I really do believe that RTE's performance as a public service provider needs to be independently analysed."
Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin told the same committee, however, the Government does not tend to publish the Attorney General's view on matters before Cabinet. It was a long-standing precedent, he said.
Popular
Mr Martin said he believed in the referendum as a means of democratically determining the popular will.
"I think it is a Constitutional imperative anyway," he added.
"Just because you lose one doesn't mean you have to question the whole format."
He said he didn't think Mr Sarkozy intended to visit Ireland this month in the method suggested by MEP Mitchell. "I believe his commitment is genuine to resolve the difficulty."
Mr Mitchell called for an analysis of the effectiveness of the Referendum Commission, and that of the Forum on Europe, which was not communicating "beyond a certain elite".
Mr Martin said he personally thought the Referendum Commission had a reasonably good campaign.
- Senan Molony Deputy Political Editor
as you make out certain countries as wise and noble and others as arrogant and oppressive...
a little fact about Poland: their conservative parties (which Kaczynski is a member of) were a major opponent to a !!!HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTA!!! in the european constitution/treaty, because they were afraid that some of the ethnic germans that were forced out of the country after WWII would sue them at the european court for their lost property...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I find that you often tend to respond to the semantics of my posts rather than the factual content, but that's just me...
I am out of here for good, at least until there's some substantive news again...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you